|
Post by bus12451 on Jun 15, 2021 17:40:07 GMT
Some fantasy bus route ideas, in order to create a direct route between Orpington and Bexleyheath (that is more straightforward than the B14). 51 - Withdrawn between Orpington Station and Sidcup, and diverted to Queen Mary's Hospital. 229 - Re-routed to Orpington Station via route 51, and withdrawn between Thamesmead and Erith. 428 - Extended from Erith to Thamesmead via route 229, and withdrawn between Bluewater and Dartford. These are fantasy ideas however, and are probably unlikely to happen in reality. The 428 idea reminds me of my Bexleyheath idea. I'd also say this, like my Bexleyheath idea, is a bad idea for the route, as it pretty much dulicates route 469. Regarding the 428 extension, duplicating the 469 is not the issue, because that is what the 229 currently does. OP suggested that the 229 would be withdrawn between Thamesmead and Erith, with the 428 being extended to act as a replacement.
|
|
|
Post by someone on Jun 15, 2021 18:41:47 GMT
Route 469: to be diverted around Sewell Road to carry on along Sewell Road, with new stops, situated just after Grovebury Road and near Wolsey Close, respectively. Then, the route would turn right on to Harrow Manorway, with a new stop near Ampleforth Road. The Harrow Manorway custom arrangement brings in mind the routing of the 380 near Barnham Drive (which I still think is a rubbish name for a DLR station, why not West Thamesmead).
|
|
|
Post by twobellstogo on Jun 16, 2021 10:56:08 GMT
Some fantasy bus route ideas, in order to create a direct route between Orpington and Bexleyheath (that is more straightforward than the B14). 51 - Withdrawn between Orpington Station and Sidcup, and diverted to Queen Mary's Hospital. 229 - Re-routed to Orpington Station via route 51, and withdrawn between Thamesmead and Erith. 428 - Extended from Erith to Thamesmead via route 229, and withdrawn between Bluewater and Dartford. These are fantasy ideas however, and are probably unlikely to happen in reality. I like the idea of a more direct Orpington to Bexleyheath route but I wouldn't fiddle with the 51 or 229 to make it happen. It might be easier to introduce a new route but maybe start it elsewhere before reaching Bexleyheath due to stand space there. It's not my are so I'll let others more knowledgeable provide more on that It’s certainly a difficult one, made worse by the lack of stand space at Bexleyheath, otherwise a potential idea, if we want a 229 from Erith to Orpington, is you could double deck and straighten out the 469 (so direct via Basildon Road, Eynsham Drive etc, and extend that to Bexleyheath, but possibly via Northend Road, Perry Street and Mayplace Road East, as I think the 229 suffices from Erith to Bexleyheath via Northumberland Heath, pass the Queen Elizabeth Hospital link the 469 currently does to the 51 (as that route will be a lot shorter with these changes), introduce a new single deck route (let’s for the sake of argument call it 409) from Charlton Anchor and Hope Lane via 486 to Charlton Village, Cemetery Lane, double run via the hospital and then current 469 to Abbey Wood, then B11/99 to Upper Belvedere. If we felt a bit more ambitious, and were concerned about the main loss this scheme might throw up, the link from Abbey Wood to Northumberland Heath, then this new 409 could then pick through from Upper Belvedere via Bedonwell Road, Parsonage Manorway, Carlton Road, 229 to Barnehurst then maybe on to Crayford via some back roads? You could even go further and divert the B11 at Brampton Road to send it via Bostall Hill, Basildon Road and McLeod Road to line of route, which would provide a few interesting and potentially well used links. But as said above, this would need a route to move out of the Bexleyheath terminals, which doesn’t look easy or likely.
|
|
|
Post by busman on Jun 16, 2021 18:49:31 GMT
I like the idea of a more direct Orpington to Bexleyheath route but I wouldn't fiddle with the 51 or 229 to make it happen. It might be easier to introduce a new route but maybe start it elsewhere before reaching Bexleyheath due to stand space there. It's not my are so I'll let others more knowledgeable provide more on that It’s certainly a difficult one, made worse by the lack of stand space at Bexleyheath, otherwise a potential idea, if we want a 229 from Erith to Orpington, is you could double deck and straighten out the 469 (so direct via Basildon Road, Eynsham Drive etc, and extend that to Bexleyheath, but possibly via Northend Road, Perry Street and Mayplace Road East, as I think the 229 suffices from Erith to Bexleyheath via Northumberland Heath, pass the Queen Elizabeth Hospital link the 469 currently does to the 51 (as that route will be a lot shorter with these changes), introduce a new single deck route (let’s for the sake of argument call it 409) from Charlton Anchor and Hope Lane via 486 to Charlton Village, Cemetery Lane, double run via the hospital and then current 469 to Abbey Wood, then B11/99 to Upper Belvedere. If we felt a bit more ambitious, and were concerned about the main loss this scheme might throw up, the link from Abbey Wood to Northumberland Heath, then this new 409 could then pick through from Upper Belvedere via Bedonwell Road, Parsonage Manorway, Carlton Road, 229 to Barnehurst then maybe on to Crayford via some back roads? You could even go further and divert the B11 at Brampton Road to send it via Bostall Hill, Basildon Road and McLeod Road to line of route, which would provide a few interesting and potentially well used links. But as said above, this would need a route to move out of the Bexleyheath terminals, which doesn’t look easy or likely. As interesting as some of those proposals are, these changes seem excessive if the end goal is to create a faster link between Bexleyheath and Orpington. I think this can be achieved through an extension of the B11 which would align with proposed Elizabeth Line changes and unlock stand space at Bexleyheath which we all seem to obsess about: B11 Thamesmead South - Orpington Station *Cut back from Thamesmead Town Centre and Mon-Sat daytime frequency reduced to every 20 mins as per Elizabeth Line proposal. Route 472 extended to Abbey Wood as proposed. *Buses diverted after Bexleyheath Clock Tower via Arnsberg Way, Highland Road and along Albion Road then: *269 LOR to Blendon Road, then Bexley Station, 492 LOR to Ruxley Corner; then Foots Cray Tesco, then joining 51 LOR at Sevenoaks Way roundabout to Orpington Station. The duplication of the 51 between the Crays and Orpington is done just for speed of journey time to connect Bexleyheath with Orpington as quickly as possible, but potentially could be adapted based on local need. I’m not familiar enough with local connections in Orpington to know which useful hyper-local connections are either non-existent or under served, so I will leave that debate for more informed forum members. This route may even encourage more residents living along North Cray Road to leave their cars at home for journeys to Tesco or Bexley Village. I imagine the route would be very popular with Townley pupils, but nothing that an extra school service couldn’t solve of overcrowding was occurring.
|
|
|
Post by someone on Jun 17, 2021 15:44:50 GMT
As interesting as some of those proposals are, these changes seem excessive if the end goal is to create a faster link between Bexleyheath and Orpington. I think this can be achieved through an extension of the B11 which would align with proposed Elizabeth Line changes and unlock stand space at Bexleyheath which we all seem to obsess about: B11 Thamesmead South - Orpington Station *Cut back from Thamesmead Town Centre and Mon-Sat daytime frequency reduced to every 20 mins as per Elizabeth Line proposal. Route 472 extended to Abbey Wood as proposed. *Buses diverted after Bexleyheath Clock Tower via Arnsberg Way, Highland Road and along Albion Road then: *269 LOR to Blendon Road, then Bexley Station, 492 LOR to Ruxley Corner; then Foots Cray Tesco, then joining 51 LOR at Sevenoaks Way roundabout to Orpington Station. The duplication of the 51 between the Crays and Orpington is done just for speed of journey time to connect Bexleyheath with Orpington as quickly as possible, but potentially could be adapted based on local need. I’m not familiar enough with local connections in Orpington to know which useful hyper-local connections are either non-existent or under served, so I will leave that debate for more informed forum members. This route may even encourage more residents living along North Cray Road to leave their cars at home for journeys to Tesco or Bexley Village. I imagine the route would be very popular with Townley pupils, but nothing that an extra school service couldn’t solve of overcrowding was occurring. The extension of the B11 makes it less of a local route and more of a trunk route, like the 53 or 321.
|
|
|
Post by someone on Jun 17, 2021 15:57:29 GMT
I like the idea of a more direct Orpington to Bexleyheath route but I wouldn't fiddle with the 51 or 229 to make it happen. It might be easier to introduce a new route but maybe start it elsewhere before reaching Bexleyheath due to stand space there. It's not my are so I'll let others more knowledgeable provide more on that It’s certainly a difficult one, made worse by the lack of stand space at Bexleyheath, otherwise a potential idea, if we want a 229 from Erith to Orpington, is you could double deck and straighten out the 469 (so direct via Basildon Road, Eynsham Drive etc, and extend that to Bexleyheath, but possibly via Northend Road, Perry Street and Mayplace Road East, as I think the 229 suffices from Erith to Bexleyheath via Northumberland Heath, pass the Queen Elizabeth Hospital link the 469 currently does to the 51 (as that route will be a lot shorter with these changes), introduce a new single deck route (let’s for the sake of argument call it 409) from Charlton Anchor and Hope Lane via 486 to Charlton Village, Cemetery Lane, double run via the hospital and then current 469 to Abbey Wood, then B11/99 to Upper Belvedere. If we felt a bit more ambitious, and were concerned about the main loss this scheme might throw up, the link from Abbey Wood to Northumberland Heath, then this new 409 could then pick through from Upper Belvedere via Bedonwell Road, Parsonage Manorway, Carlton Road, 229 to Barnehurst then maybe on to Crayford via some back roads? You could even go further and divert the B11 at Brampton Road to send it via Bostall Hill, Basildon Road and McLeod Road to line of route, which would provide a few interesting and potentially well used links. But as said above, this would need a route to move out of the Bexleyheath terminals, which doesn’t look easy or likely. Did you get the Perry Street idea from my B10 plan?
|
|
|
Post by twobellstogo on Jun 17, 2021 16:32:36 GMT
It’s certainly a difficult one, made worse by the lack of stand space at Bexleyheath, otherwise a potential idea, if we want a 229 from Erith to Orpington, is you could double deck and straighten out the 469 (so direct via Basildon Road, Eynsham Drive etc, and extend that to Bexleyheath, but possibly via Northend Road, Perry Street and Mayplace Road East, as I think the 229 suffices from Erith to Bexleyheath via Northumberland Heath, pass the Queen Elizabeth Hospital link the 469 currently does to the 51 (as that route will be a lot shorter with these changes), introduce a new single deck route (let’s for the sake of argument call it 409) from Charlton Anchor and Hope Lane via 486 to Charlton Village, Cemetery Lane, double run via the hospital and then current 469 to Abbey Wood, then B11/99 to Upper Belvedere. If we felt a bit more ambitious, and were concerned about the main loss this scheme might throw up, the link from Abbey Wood to Northumberland Heath, then this new 409 could then pick through from Upper Belvedere via Bedonwell Road, Parsonage Manorway, Carlton Road, 229 to Barnehurst then maybe on to Crayford via some back roads? You could even go further and divert the B11 at Brampton Road to send it via Bostall Hill, Basildon Road and McLeod Road to line of route, which would provide a few interesting and potentially well used links. But as said above, this would need a route to move out of the Bexleyheath terminals, which doesn’t look easy or likely. Did you get the Perry Street idea from my B10 plan? Nope - I’ve long thought Perry Street needed a bus route - there’s housing etc there that I think would welcome a route.
|
|
|
Post by someone on Jun 17, 2021 17:59:12 GMT
Did you get the Perry Street idea from my B10 plan? Nope - I’ve long thought Perry Street needed a bus route - there’s housing etc there that I think would welcome a route. Same principle though...
|
|
|
Post by someone on Jun 17, 2021 18:17:46 GMT
Rearrangement of bus routes and bus stops in Kidbrooke:
Route 178 will stay the same. Route 335 will no longer be routed via the one-way loop. This would now only be served by Route 178. Route B16 will end at a turning circle on Pegler Square in order to better connect London Buses with Kidbrooke railway station. The route will go via Kidbrooke Park Road, Weigall Road and the A20. The bus stops will also be rearranged. Kidbrooke Park Road/Aldi Store (D) and Kidbrooke Park Road/Homebase Superstore (H) will be renamed to have no letters and to be called Kidbrooke Retail Park instead. Cranfield Walk will be replaced by Kidbrooke Park Road/Kidbrooke Station (C) towards Kidbrooke Village, and two stops called Kidbrooke Park Road/Kidbrooke Station (F) and Kidbrooke Station (G), the former being used by the B16, and the latter by the 178 and the 335. Kidbrooke Park Road bus stop will be removed, and new stops called Cator Park South (D and E) will open, just before the junction on to Weigall Road.
|
|
|
Post by rift on Jun 17, 2021 21:22:39 GMT
Rearrangement of bus routes and bus stops in Kidbrooke:
Route 178 will stay the same. Route 335 will no longer be routed via the one-way loop. This would now only be served by Route 178. Route B16 will end at a turning circle on Pegler Square in order to better connect London Buses with Kidbrooke railway station. The route will go via Kidbrooke Park Road, Weigall Road and the A20. The bus stops will also be rearranged. Kidbrooke Park Road/Aldi Store (D) and Kidbrooke Park Road/Homebase Superstore (H) will be renamed to have no letters and to be called Kidbrooke Retail Park instead. Cranfield Walk will be replaced by Kidbrooke Park Road/Kidbrooke Station (C) towards Kidbrooke Village, and two stops called Kidbrooke Park Road/Kidbrooke Station (F) and Kidbrooke Station (G), the former being used by the B16, and the latter by the 178 and the 335. Kidbrooke Park Road bus stop will be removed, and new stops called Cator Park South (D and E) will open, just before the junction on to Weigall Road.
There is no point in renaming the stops where the shops are, as it isn't really a retail park, but just 2 shops.
|
|
|
Post by LondonNorthern on Jun 18, 2021 22:07:31 GMT
Am going to list this as fantasy as this is coming from an armchair enthusiast and definitely not going to happen but I hope people don't mind me perhaps suggesting this: I would like to maybe suggest something a bit different to the ELT changes in 2016. Route 238: Extended from Barking to Becontree Heath. Frequency upped to every 8 minutes to match the EL2s previous frequency between Barking and Becontree Heath and to also provide extra capacity along its very busy current routing between Stratford & Barking. Route EL1: Dropped to every 8 minutes in frequency during the peaks. Route EL2: Dropped to every 10 minutes in frequency during the peaks. Diverted back to Ilford, but then extended further to Gants Hill Station (I would suggest Claybury Broadway in fantasy because it's been mentioned the 123/179 do get busy down there but of course, the A406 comes in the way) but this would reintroduce a link between Gants Hill/Valentines Park and Barking. With the 169/EL1/EL2 along the Ilford to Barking stretch it would be increased to 19.5bph, which is what it was when the changes were initially consulted on and it would be an upgrade from the 16bph currently offered which Eastlondoner62 himself has said still means struggles with capacity. I don't think 10 buses per hour is also needed in the Barking Riverside area on the EL1 but that could all change as the development opens up. The 238 extension I suggested instead of the EL2 as from my experiences the 5 is very busy and is the only east to west link, so the 238 would become a second - however I would concur that traffic in that neck of the woods in East London can be atrocious at the best of times and I do think reliability could possibly be impacted, hence why with the EL2 suggestion I did name the last part as fantasy. It would be interesting to hear people's viewpoints
|
|
|
Post by vjaska on Jun 18, 2021 22:39:20 GMT
Am going to list this as fantasy as this is coming from an armchair enthusiast and definitely not going to happen but I hope people don't mind me perhaps suggesting this: I would like to maybe suggest something a bit different to the ELT changes in 2016. Route 238: Extended from Barking to Becontree Heath. Frequency upped to every 8 minutes to match the EL2s previous frequency between Barking and Becontree Heath and to also provide extra capacity along its very busy current routing between Stratford & Barking. Route EL1: Dropped to every 8 minutes in frequency during the peaks. Route EL2: Dropped to every 10 minutes in frequency during the peaks. Diverted back to Ilford, but then extended further to Gants Hill Station (I would suggest Claybury Broadway in fantasy because it's been mentioned the 123/179 do get busy down there but of course, the A406 comes in the way) but this would reintroduce a link between Gants Hill/Valentines Park and Barking. With the 169/EL1/EL2 along the Ilford to Barking stretch it would be increased to 19.5bph, which is what it was when the changes were initially consulted on and it would be an upgrade from the 16bph currently offered which Eastlondoner62 himself has said still means struggles with capacity. I don't think 10 buses per hour is also needed in the Barking Riverside area on the EL1 but that could all change as the development opens up. The 238 extension I suggested instead of the EL2 as from my experiences the 5 is very busy and is the only east to west link, so the 238 would become a second - however I would concur that traffic in that neck of the woods in East London can be atrocious at the best of times and I do think reliability could possibly be impacted, hence why with the EL2 suggestion I did name the last part as fantasy. It would be interesting to hear people's viewpoints No comment on the actual proposal but I did find out days ago that the 238 to Becontree Heath was an alternative proposal to the EL2 extension
|
|
|
Post by someone on Jun 19, 2021 8:56:03 GMT
Rearrangement of bus routes and bus stops in Kidbrooke:
Route 178 will stay the same. Route 335 will no longer be routed via the one-way loop. This would now only be served by Route 178. Route B16 will end at a turning circle on Pegler Square in order to better connect London Buses with Kidbrooke railway station. The route will go via Kidbrooke Park Road, Weigall Road and the A20. The bus stops will also be rearranged. Kidbrooke Park Road/Aldi Store (D) and Kidbrooke Park Road/Homebase Superstore (H) will be renamed to have no letters and to be called Kidbrooke Retail Park instead. Cranfield Walk will be replaced by Kidbrooke Park Road/Kidbrooke Station (C) towards Kidbrooke Village, and two stops called Kidbrooke Park Road/Kidbrooke Station (F) and Kidbrooke Station (G), the former being used by the B16, and the latter by the 178 and the 335. Kidbrooke Park Road bus stop will be removed, and new stops called Cator Park South (D and E) will open, just before the junction on to Weigall Road.
There is no point in renaming the stops where the shops are, as it isn't really a retail park, but just 2 shops. Okay, perhaps to Kidbrooke Park Road/Aldi on both sides
|
|
|
Post by someone on Jun 19, 2021 9:52:11 GMT
Route 239: single-deck route operated by Go-Ahead London running from Queen Elizabeth Hospital to Falconwood. Heads north on Stadium Road, then turns left on to Charlton Park Lane. Carries on on the entire length of Charlton Park Lane, before stopping at Charlton Park Lane (the bus stop), then follows Farjeon Road, then Whetstone Road, before following the 386 LoR and turning right on to Corelli Road. The route then turns left on to Broad Walk, before following the 122/161 LoR along Well Hall Road. The route would go around the roundabout on Well Hall Road, and follows Rochester Way, in order to link with the B16. Follows B16 LoR before ending in a loop in Falconwood Green.
ROUTE: QUEEN ELIZABETH HOSPITAL/WEST ENTRANCE (H3) Queen Elizabeth Hospital/Main Entrance (H1) Cemetery Lane (new stop, no letter) Charlton Park Lane/Canberra Road (new stop, no letter) Meridian Road (new stop, no letter) Hornfair Road (new stop, no letter) Charlton Park Lane/Charlton Lido (new stop, no letter) Charlton Park Lane (no letter) Shooters Hill Estate (new stop, no letter) Merriman Road (new stop, no letter) Wricklemarsh Road (new stop, no letter) Kellaway Road (no letter) Corelli College (no letter) Corelli Road (new stop, SX) Crosier Close (new stop, WP) Mayday Gardens (new stop, WQ)
Well Hall Road/Broad Walk (WS) Well Hall Road/Dunblane Road (L) Arbroath Road (M) Well Hall Road/Well Hall Roundabout (N) Congreve Road (new stop, WK) Prince Rupert Road (new stop, WL) Grangehill Road (new stop, WM) Rochester Way/Westmount Road (new stop, WN) Rochester Way/Glenesk Road (A) Oxleas Meadow (B) Rochester Way/Welling Way (C) Rochester Way/Falconwood Station (D) Falconwood Station (E) Braywood Road (new stop, no letter) Wincrofts Drive (new stop, no letter) Rochester Way/Falconwood Station (R) Rochester Way/Welling Way (S) Oxleas Meadow (U) Rochester Way/Glenesk Road (V) Rochester Way/Westmount Road (new stop, W) Grangehill Road (new stop, X) Prince Rupert Road (new stop, Y) Congreve Road (new stop, Z) Dickson Road (H) Arbroath Road (J) Well Hall Road/Dunblane Road (K) Broad Walk/Well Hall Road (new stop, EA) Mayday Gardens (new stop, EB) Crosier Close (new stop, EC) Corelli Road (new stop, SY) Corelli College (no letter) Kellaway Road (no letter) Wricklemarsh Road (new stop, no letter) Merriman Road (new stop, no letter) Shooters Hill Estate (new stop, no letter) Charlton Park Lane (no letter) Charlton Dene (new stop, no letter) Meridian Road (new stop, no letter) Charlton Park Lane/Canberra Road (new stop, no letter) Cemetery Lane (new stop, no letter) Queen Elizabeth Hospital/Main Entrance (H2) QUEEN ELIZABETH HOSPITAL/WEST ENTRANCE (no letter)
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2021 10:44:39 GMT
Route 239: single-deck route operated by Go-Ahead London running from Queen Elizabeth Hospital to Falconwood. Heads north on Stadium Road, then turns left on to Charlton Park Lane. Carries on on the entire length of Charlton Park Lane, before stopping at Charlton Park Lane (the bus stop), then follows Farjeon Road, then Whetstone Road, before following the 386 LoR and turning right on to Corelli Road. The route then turns left on to Broad Walk, before following the 122/161 LoR along Well Hall Road. The route would go around the roundabout on Well Hall Road, and follows Rochester Way, in order to link with the B16. Follows B16 LoR before ending in a loop in Falconwood Green.
ROUTE: QUEEN ELIZABETH HOSPITAL/WEST ENTRANCE (H3) Queen Elizabeth Hospital/Main Entrance (H1) Cemetery Lane (new stop, no letter) Charlton Park Lane/Canberra Road (new stop, no letter) Meridian Road (new stop, no letter) Hornfair Road (new stop, no letter) Charlton Park Lane/Charlton Lido (new stop, no letter) Charlton Park Lane (no letter) Shooters Hill Estate (new stop, no letter) Merriman Road (new stop, no letter) Wricklemarsh Road (new stop, no letter) Kellaway Road (no letter) Corelli College (no letter) Corelli Road (new stop, SX) Crosier Close (new stop, WP) Mayday Gardens (new stop, WQ)
Well Hall Road/Broad Walk (WS) Well Hall Road/Dunblane Road (L) Arbroath Road (M) Well Hall Road/Well Hall Roundabout (N) Congreve Road (new stop, WK) Prince Rupert Road (new stop, WL) Grangehill Road (new stop, WM) Rochester Way/Westmount Road (new stop, WN) Rochester Way/Glenesk Road (A) Oxleas Meadow (B) Rochester Way/Welling Way (C) Rochester Way/Falconwood Station (D) Falconwood Station (E) Braywood Road (new stop, no letter) Wincrofts Drive (new stop, no letter) Rochester Way/Falconwood Station (R) Rochester Way/Welling Way (S) Oxleas Meadow (U) Rochester Way/Glenesk Road (V) Rochester Way/Westmount Road (new stop, W) Grangehill Road (new stop, X) Prince Rupert Road (new stop, Y) Congreve Road (new stop, Z) Dickson Road (H) Arbroath Road (J) Well Hall Road/Dunblane Road (K) Broad Walk/Well Hall Road (new stop, EA) Mayday Gardens (new stop, EB) Crosier Close (new stop, EC) Corelli Road (new stop, SY) Corelli College (no letter) Kellaway Road (no letter) Wricklemarsh Road (new stop, no letter) Merriman Road (new stop, no letter) Shooters Hill Estate (new stop, no letter) Charlton Park Lane (no letter) Charlton Dene (new stop, no letter) Meridian Road (new stop, no letter) Charlton Park Lane/Canberra Road (new stop, no letter) Cemetery Lane (new stop, no letter) Queen Elizabeth Hospital/Main Entrance (H2) QUEEN ELIZABETH HOSPITAL/WEST ENTRANCE (no letter)
Would be simpler just to name places on route rather than every stop
|
|