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Post by Dad91 on Nov 12, 2023 0:05:44 GMT
It depends what route the SL12 will take, the most direct would be following the 5 through to Canning Town and then diverting off to Canary Wharf. While an express 5 would be useful, it'd probably not be the best use of TfL's funds. The 5 has usage at all stops along its route, and while Barking is no doubt its busiest location it remains busy constantly and skipping stops to get places might not actually prove as popular as it may seem. Especially between Barking and Romford where you have no direct pinch points. I think if East London needs an express route, any route would go from Zone 4 into Central London from either Barking or Ilford. Probably Barking as Ilford already has the 25. I'd be weary against sending any express route to Romford just because those relevant sections of the 5 and 86 are not express route nature. Where would you stop an X5 or an X86? Presumably Becontree Heath for the former and Chadwell Heath for the latter but pinpointing other locations won't be as easy. Romford also has the Elizabeth Line now, people travelling longer distances tend to use that. Romford is not a deprived area like other areas in East London and people there can generally afford to use the train. The best uses of money in Romford would be to simply give routes in the area frequency increases and capacity increases. I'm sure the 193 could do with longer buses while frequency increases on the 175 and 103 would prove very popular. Reinstating the 296s night service would give Marks Gate the night service it needs and the 296 would do even better being made a high frequency route. The 193 is under review for loadings at the moment so hopefully from the new tender it will get either longer buses or double decks (unless there's a restriction) got Idea 165 convert to double decker buses on 165 currently put them on 193. 193 currently buses use them on 462
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Post by northlondon83 on Nov 14, 2023 21:23:23 GMT
Fantasy idea to completely change the SL1 North Finchley to Walthamstow Central via Wood Green
Operating via: East Finchley Muswell Hill Hornsey Turnpike Lane Wood Green Bruce Grove Tottenham Tottenham Hale Blackhorse Road St James's Street
Calling at: North Finchley bus station Fairlawn Avenue (for East Finchley station) - would run via the A1000 to East Finchley station, use the turning facilities at the station, then double run on the A1000 back to Fortis Green Muswell Hill (Stop F) (Eastbound) / Queen's Avenue (Stop E) (Westbound) Tottenham Lane Turnpike Lane bus station Wood Green station Tottenham High Road, Bruce Grove (Stop C) (Eastbound) / Bruce Grove station (Stop J) (Westbound) Tottenham Hale bus station Blackhorse Road station (Stop BB) (Eastbound) / (Stop BA) (Westbound) Walthamstow bus station
The current SL1 doesn't really serve many major town centres, ie Arnos Grove is a small place, it misses the centre of Palmers Green and Edmonton. Serving Muswell Hill, Wood Green and Tottenham would be better in my opinion.
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Post by britishguy54 on Nov 22, 2023 19:53:28 GMT
239? 475? (I don’t know, what number is better?) (New Route): Stratford - Dagenham, via East Ham.
Think of it as a sister route to the 238, helping serve the Stratford - East Ham link, along with another route beside the 173 to go into Dagenham.
Stratford Bus Station Plaistow Station Upton Park (Barking Road) East Ham (Newham Town Hall) High Street South A13 Alfreds Way/Ripple Road Chequers Corner Dagenham New Road/Ballards Road
I wonder if it would be of any use to anyone. I guess there might be a chance that Plaistow or High St South may end up overbussed. Perhaps routes would have to change termini, like the 115 going to Barking, or the 175 going to ASDA.
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Post by Busboy105 on Nov 22, 2023 22:29:54 GMT
239? 475? (I don’t know, what number is better?) (New Route): Stratford - Dagenham, via East Ham. Think of it as a sister route to the 238, helping serve the Stratford - East Ham link, along with another route beside the 173 to go into Dagenham. Stratford Bus Station Plaistow Station Upton Park (Barking Road) East Ham (Newham Town Hall) High Street South A13 Alfreds Way/Ripple Road Chequers Corner Dagenham New Road/Ballards Road I wonder if it would be of any use to anyone. I guess there might be a chance that Plaistow or High St South may end up overbussed. Perhaps routes would have to change termini, like the 115 going to Barking, or the 175 going to ASDA. Does serve some very bad traffic hotshots. If the A13 goes down, this route is finished but its a nice idea
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Post by someone on Nov 27, 2023 19:06:29 GMT
This is just fantasy - but this is for the Woolwich routes. 244 - rerouted between Herbert Road and Woolwich via Sandy Hill Road (towards Abbey Wood) and Bloomfield Road to allow longer buses to operate. If 10.8m buses can operate on the 244, then surely full size buses (at least 11.5m) should not be a struggle as i dont think it has any other physical restrictions - it would be a good alternative to double deckers. 386 - rerouted between Herbert Road and Woolwich via Plumstead Common Road and Burrage Road. The top part of Burrage Road is unserved by buses - many buses have been on diversion through there before (i even saw a 291 on diversion there today so if 10.2m double deckers can be diverted through there, then surely 9.6m buses can do the same thing.) Terminating point is Burrage Road. 451 - new route between Woolwich and Queen Mary's Hospital - replacing the Woolwich Common section on the 244, then via the 244 until Shooters Hill, the Bull. As the 244 does get busy in that section during peak time I do think another route may be useful to help the 244. Then the 451 turns to Foxcroft Road and Eaglesfield Road, before joining the 89 and 486 at Shooters Hill. The 451 will follow them to Welling where it will it turn to Westwood Lane and through to Hook Lane and Blackfen - after Blackfen it will follow the 132 to Penhill Road, after Penhill Road it will go through to Hurst Road, where it will finally arrive at Sidcup and terminate at Queen Marys Hospital. 451 will run every 12-15 minutes throughout Mondays - Fridays, however this will drop to every 20 minutes on Sundays and Late evenings I used to live in Woolwich, and I think these ideas are good in general, however surely the 244 could also serve the top of Burrage Road and the 386 could terminate at Beresford Square instead?
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Post by mb171 on Nov 27, 2023 20:57:58 GMT
This is just fantasy - but this is for the Woolwich routes. 244 - rerouted between Herbert Road and Woolwich via Sandy Hill Road (towards Abbey Wood) and Bloomfield Road to allow longer buses to operate. If 10.8m buses can operate on the 244, then surely full size buses (at least 11.5m) should not be a struggle as i dont think it has any other physical restrictions - it would be a good alternative to double deckers. 386 - rerouted between Herbert Road and Woolwich via Plumstead Common Road and Burrage Road. The top part of Burrage Road is unserved by buses - many buses have been on diversion through there before (i even saw a 291 on diversion there today so if 10.2m double deckers can be diverted through there, then surely 9.6m buses can do the same thing.) Terminating point is Burrage Road. 451 - new route between Woolwich and Queen Mary's Hospital - replacing the Woolwich Common section on the 244, then via the 244 until Shooters Hill, the Bull. As the 244 does get busy in that section during peak time I do think another route may be useful to help the 244. Then the 451 turns to Foxcroft Road and Eaglesfield Road, before joining the 89 and 486 at Shooters Hill. The 451 will follow them to Welling where it will it turn to Westwood Lane and through to Hook Lane and Blackfen - after Blackfen it will follow the 132 to Penhill Road, after Penhill Road it will go through to Hurst Road, where it will finally arrive at Sidcup and terminate at Queen Marys Hospital. 451 will run every 12-15 minutes throughout Mondays - Fridays, however this will drop to every 20 minutes on Sundays and Late evenings I used to live in Woolwich, and I think these ideas are good in general, however surely the 244 could also serve the top of Burrage Road and the 386 could terminate at Beresford Square instead? It would be better if the 386 terminated at Beresford Square actually. The only problem with the 244 serving Burrage road is that it would have to go round the back of Woolwich rather than the Tescos which is where most people want to head to.
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Post by InterCityTrains on Nov 27, 2023 22:32:22 GMT
With the amount of traffic between Hornsey and Turnpike Lane, the whole point of such a route being 'express' down that section would be defeated. You often wait for over 10 minutes in the traffic.
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Post by junaid151000 on Nov 28, 2023 0:16:38 GMT
New SL route to support route 18 N18 remains as is
18 withdrawn between ark elvin academy and Sudbury, extended to somewhere in Wembley via route 297 to Wembley Park
New route between Harrow Weald and new HS2 Old oak station via 182 to Wembley high road and 18 to Harlesden jubilee clock, then 266 to where the new station will be built.
New SL route between Harrow bus station and Paddington
Via combined new route idea and 18 to Edgware Road, then follows 16 routing for terminus, this terminus at Paddington allows desirability for the route 18 to Euston
Reasoning for my suggested changes: - new route assists 18 at Harrow road between Stonebridge Park and Wembley Central, the route 18 gets curtailed at Stonebridge Park very often when there is heavy delays as this is the most western side of the route where buses in large quantities can turn around, this new route will help passengers complete their journeys between Harlesden and Wembley as passengers can be assured that this is the start of the route and there wouldn’t be a curtailment until after Sudbury (in the event there is a curtailment at Sudbury passengers can still get 182). This will also support the 18 from overloading buses
-the new superloop route would give passengers a more desirable way of travelling to help buses on the route 18 from overloading. The new superloop route would terminate at Paddington so the route 18 would still be used between Paddington and Euston
- the new route idea is there to help routes 18 and 182 on the corridor between Harrow and Harlesden, the route 18 sees extremely busy buses between Stonebridge Park and Wembley Central where drivers are at risk of loosing their licence for overloading their buses. This route can also help filter passengers so that passengers wishing to go beyond Wembley Central or Harrow may use the new route from Harrow road
Let’s be honest, even tho the Bakerloo line exists, the route 18 is seen as a more affordable option for most people and even tho this route is copying the Bakerloo line, most people would still choose to travel the bus. Just an observation I made while i myself drive the route 18
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Post by ADH45258 on Nov 28, 2023 16:09:49 GMT
New SL route to support route 18 N18 remains as is 18 withdrawn between ark elvin academy and Sudbury, extended to somewhere in Wembley via route 297 to Wembley Park New route between Harrow Weald and new HS2 Old oak station via 182 to Wembley high road and 18 to Harlesden jubilee clock, then 266 to where the new station will be built. New SL route between Harrow bus station and Paddington Via combined new route idea and 18 to Edgware Road, then follows 16 routing for terminus, this terminus at Paddington allows desirability for the route 18 to Euston Reasoning for my suggested changes: - new route assists 18 at Harrow road between Stonebridge Park and Wembley Central, the route 18 gets curtailed at Stonebridge Park very often when there is heavy delays as this is the most western side of the route where buses in large quantities can turn around, this new route will help passengers complete their journeys between Harlesden and Wembley as passengers can be assured that this is the start of the route and there wouldn’t be a curtailment until after Sudbury (in the event there is a curtailment at Sudbury passengers can still get 182). This will also support the 18 from overloading buses -the new superloop route would give passengers a more desirable way of travelling to help buses on the route 18 from overloading. The new superloop route would terminate at Paddington so the route 18 would still be used between Paddington and Euston - the new route idea is there to help routes 18 and 182 on the corridor between Harrow and Harlesden, the route 18 sees extremely busy buses between Stonebridge Park and Wembley Central where drivers are at risk of loosing their licence for overloading their buses. This route can also help filter passengers so that passengers wishing to go beyond Wembley Central or Harrow may use the new route from Harrow road Let’s be honest, even tho the Bakerloo line exists, the route 18 is seen as a more affordable option for most people and even tho this route is copying the Bakerloo line, most people would still choose to travel the bus. Just an observation I made while i myself drive the route 18 Some interesting ideas, maybe an express route would work on this corridor, but I definitely can't see TFL ever introducing one when the Bakerloo/Overground parallel most of the route. The SL6 and SL8 work as they serve areas that don't have a station. But what is clear is that the 18 could do with some support, and I wonder if a better solution might be to introduce some more varied links, particularly to/from Old Oak Common, rather than fully duplicating the 18? Your idea for a Harrow Weald to Old Oak Common route would work well, but wouldn't be needed as well as the 182. Could perhaps split the 182, it's quite indirect so wouldn't break many links. A revised 182 could divert to Old Oak Common, assisting the 18 between Sudbury and Harlesden, then maybe reroute the 297 to Brent Cross, and extend something from Willesden to Wembley? For the section of the 18 via Kensal Green, I think a local link via Ladbroke Grove could be useful here, and previously suggested diverting the 452 to Harlesden (Craven Park) instead of Kensal Rise. I also think the Central end of the 18 would be worth looking at - while the Euston section is well used, Euston & Baker Street are not the most useful destinations for passengers making longer journeys from Harlesden/Wembley. So my suggestion would be to divert the 18 to terminate at Marble Arch instead, and introduce a new route alongside to serve Euston. This could run from Euston to Ladbroke Grove Sainsburys, then serve new developments at Kensal Canalside and through to Old Oak Common, or continuing further to Park Royal?
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Post by someone on Dec 3, 2023 17:14:49 GMT
Let's face it, Eltham needs a good bus connection with Woolwich (and no, the 161 doesn't count; it doesn't serve the high street and only runs once every 16 mn), so here are my ideas for two routes that fulfil this purpose and a few more.
Firstly, route 361, which could also be called route 522, which would run from the 122 terminus at Plumstead Bus Garage to Chislehurst, Gordon Arms (where the 160 terminates), following the 122 as far as Well Hall Road/Broad Walk before going onto Westmount Road with 2-3 new stops on the northern section of that road before joining the B16 as far as Eltham High Street, then the 126/161 as far as Mottingham Road/Ravensworth Road before briefly running alongside the 314 on William Barefoot Drive and going on to serve Green Lane, with a few new stops there as well.
Secondly, route 461, which would go from the 54 start/end points on Plumstead Road in Woolwich to Eltham Station via Plumstead Common and Welling, following the 244 before continuing on Plumstead Common Road and following the 51 as far as Wickham Street/Edison Road, then going onto a new section on Wickham Street before joining the 96 up to Welling High Street. It would then go onto a new section using Danson Lane and Wendover Way, serving Bexley Grammar School, before rejoining the 51 briefly, then following the 132 up to Eltham Bus Station.
Both routes would probably be operated by Stagecoach from PD, and the 361/522 would use double-deckers while the 461 would use single-deckers.
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Post by vjaska on Dec 3, 2023 17:34:13 GMT
Let's face it, Eltham needs a good bus connection with Woolwich (and no, the 161 doesn't count; it doesn't serve the high street and only runs once every 16 mn), so here are my ideas for two routes that fulfil this purpose and a few more. Firstly, route 361, which could also be called route 522, which would run from the 122 terminus at Plumstead Bus Garage to Chislehurst, Gordon Arms (where the 160 terminates), following the 122 as far as Well Hall Road/Broad Walk before going onto Westmount Road with 2-3 new stops on the northern section of that road before joining the B16 as far as Eltham High Street, then the 126/161 as far as Mottingham Road/Ravensworth Road before briefly running alongside the 314 on William Barefoot Drive and going on to serve Green Lane, with a few new stops there as well. Secondly, route 461, which would go from the 54 start/end points on Plumstead Road in Woolwich to Eltham Station via Plumstead Common and Welling, following the 244 before continuing on Plumstead Common Road and following the 51 as far as Wickham Street/Edison Road, then going onto a new section on Wickham Street before joining the 96 up to Welling High Street. It would then go onto a new section using Danson Lane and Wendover Way, serving Bexley Grammar School, before rejoining the 51 briefly, then following the 132 up to Eltham Bus Station. Both routes would probably be operated by Stagecoach from PD, and the 361/522 would use double-deckers while the 461 would use single-deckers.
Unless I’m confused, the 161 runs every 10 minutes Saturdays and every 11 minutes Mon-Fri peaks and whilst it doesn’t run along the high street, it’s literally crosses the bottom end of it and the shops are walking distance at worse. I don’t know if you need a link that runs along the high street to Woolwich but extending the 126 to Woolwich would surely be easier than the idea you proposed?
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Post by rift on Dec 3, 2023 18:28:47 GMT
Let's face it, Eltham needs a good bus connection with Woolwich (and no, the 161 doesn't count; it doesn't serve the high street and only runs once every 16 mn), so here are my ideas for two routes that fulfil this purpose and a few more. Firstly, route 361, which could also be called route 522, which would run from the 122 terminus at Plumstead Bus Garage to Chislehurst, Gordon Arms (where the 160 terminates), following the 122 as far as Well Hall Road/Broad Walk before going onto Westmount Road with 2-3 new stops on the northern section of that road before joining the B16 as far as Eltham High Street, then the 126/161 as far as Mottingham Road/Ravensworth Road before briefly running alongside the 314 on William Barefoot Drive and going on to serve Green Lane, with a few new stops there as well. Secondly, route 461, which would go from the 54 start/end points on Plumstead Road in Woolwich to Eltham Station via Plumstead Common and Welling, following the 244 before continuing on Plumstead Common Road and following the 51 as far as Wickham Street/Edison Road, then going onto a new section on Wickham Street before joining the 96 up to Welling High Street. It would then go onto a new section using Danson Lane and Wendover Way, serving Bexley Grammar School, before rejoining the 51 briefly, then following the 132 up to Eltham Bus Station. Both routes would probably be operated by Stagecoach from PD, and the 361/522 would use double-deckers while the 461 would use single-deckers.
Unless I’m confused, the 161 runs every 10 minutes Saturdays and every 11 minutes Mon-Fri peaks and whilst it doesn’t run along the high street, it’s literally crosses the bottom end of it and the shops are walking distance at worse. I don’t know if you need a link that runs along the high street to Woolwich but extending the 126 to Woolwich would surely be easier than the idea you proposed? Correct about the 161 frequency, every 10 Mon-Sat and every 12 on Sundays. I don’t think either routes would be worthwhile and the best way to provide a faster link from Woolwich to Eltham without changing the 161 would be to extend the 126 as you say.
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Post by COBO on Dec 3, 2023 18:56:12 GMT
18: Withdrawn between Wembley Triangle and Sudbury. Diverted to Wembley Stadium via route 440. 223: withdrawn between Northwick Park Hospital and Wembley Central. Extended from Harrow View to Heathrow Central via H14 to Hatch End, Uxbridge Road, Pinner Green, Pinner Road, Joel Street, Northwood Hills Station, High Road, Eastcote Road, route H13 to Ruislip, U1 to Uxbridge and U3 to Heathrow Central. Converted to double deck and 24 hour service. Linking Northwood Hills and Hatch End with Uxbridge and Heathrow. 224: extended from Alperton Sainsbury's to Wood End via route 297 to Biton Road, Aintree Road, Bideford Avenue, Perivale Tesco's, route E5 to Medway Estate, Wellend Gardens, Argyle Road, Westwen Avenue, South Greenford Station, Greenford Roundabout, Greenford Road, Ingram Way, Oldfield Lane North, Greenford Station, Currey Road, Oldfield Circus, Whitton Avenue West, Wood End Lane and route 398 to Wood End. To link Perivale with Central Middlesex Hospital. 340: Extended from Harrow to Westway Cross via route 395 to South Harrow, 487 to Whitton Avenue West, Greenford Road and Green Park Way. To link Wealdstone with North Greenford. 395: Extended from Westway Cross to Wembley Stadium Station via Greenford Road, Whitton Avenue East, route H17 to Ealing Road and 483 to Wembley Stadium Station. To maintain links lost by the H17 and to link Whitton Avenue East with Westway Cross. 440: withdrawn between Wembley Stadium and Stonebridge Park. Diverted to Wembley Park via Brentfield, Hillside, Brentside Road and route 206 to Wembley Park. H14: Withdrawn between Harrow View and Hatch End. Diverted to Harrow Weald via Long Elms, H12 to Harrow Weald and 182 to Oxhey Lane. Extended to Greenford Broadway via Watford Road, Sudbury Court Drive, Greenford Road, Subury Hill Stations, Westway Cross, Greenford Roundabout and route 92 to Greenford Broadway. Linking North Greenford with Northwick Park. H15: A new route running between Sudbury Town and Harrow via route 204 to Harrow Road, H17 to Ealing Road and 223 to Harrow. To Maintain links lost by the 223. H17: rerouted between Whitton Avenue East and Wembley Central via Bridgewater Road and Ealing Road. Extended from Wembley Central to Central Middlesex Hospital via Ealing Road, Wembley High Road, route 18 to Stonebridge Park and 440 to Central Middlesex Hospital. Converted to double deck. Linking Ealing Road with Central Middlesex Hospital. SL9: Extended from Harrow to Edgware via route 186 to Edgware. To link Edgware with Heathrow. SL11: new superloop route running between Harrow and Russell Square via route H17 to Sudbury Hill, Harrow Road, route 92 Wembley Central, route 18 to Euston and route 68 to Russell Square to help out the 18. U3: discontinued.
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Post by britishguy54 on Dec 8, 2023 22:20:00 GMT
This is more of a ‘What if’ scenario, but I suppose it could work here… What if the East London River Crossing was built?
This proposed river crossing would have connected the North Circular (A406), to Thamesmead. How would the bus network change?
For possible routes, we could see Thamesmead get connections to Ilford via Barking, or we see a connection to Stratford akin to the current 104 or 262.
For the north to south, perhaps Beckton or East Ham would get a route down to Abbey Wood or Woolwich.
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Post by someone on Dec 10, 2023 17:44:10 GMT
Let's face it, Eltham needs a good bus connection with Woolwich (and no, the 161 doesn't count; it doesn't serve the high street and only runs once every 16 mn), so here are my ideas for two routes that fulfil this purpose and a few more. Firstly, route 361, which could also be called route 522, which would run from the 122 terminus at Plumstead Bus Garage to Chislehurst, Gordon Arms (where the 160 terminates), following the 122 as far as Well Hall Road/Broad Walk before going onto Westmount Road with 2-3 new stops on the northern section of that road before joining the B16 as far as Eltham High Street, then the 126/161 as far as Mottingham Road/Ravensworth Road before briefly running alongside the 314 on William Barefoot Drive and going on to serve Green Lane, with a few new stops there as well. Secondly, route 461, which would go from the 54 start/end points on Plumstead Road in Woolwich to Eltham Station via Plumstead Common and Welling, following the 244 before continuing on Plumstead Common Road and following the 51 as far as Wickham Street/Edison Road, then going onto a new section on Wickham Street before joining the 96 up to Welling High Street. It would then go onto a new section using Danson Lane and Wendover Way, serving Bexley Grammar School, before rejoining the 51 briefly, then following the 132 up to Eltham Bus Station. Both routes would probably be operated by Stagecoach from PD, and the 361/522 would use double-deckers while the 461 would use single-deckers.
Unless I’m confused, the 161 runs every 10 minutes Saturdays and every 11 minutes Mon-Fri peaks and whilst it doesn’t run along the high street, it’s literally crosses the bottom end of it and the shops are walking distance at worse. I don’t know if you need a link that runs along the high street to Woolwich but extending the 126 to Woolwich would surely be easier than the idea you proposed? Good point - maybe the 126 extension could be done via my old 361/522 idea? (although maybe 461 could still happen)
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