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Post by snoggle on May 21, 2016 9:32:22 GMT
Also noteworthy that the R5 is gaining a load of extra I-Bus "timing" points for virtual stops I'm reliably informed that iBus now announces these new timing points along with a 'Hail and Ride' message. Previously there was nothing from iBus to suggest the R5/R10 was Hail and Ride and the only announcements made were for the handful of fixed stops in Halstead and Knockholt Pound Whilst it now appears iBus won't shut up when we're going around the loop, it can only be a good thing for punters unfamiliar with the route and we get more of them than you might expect This change, with the virtual bus stops, was announced on a recent API update page on the TfL Digital Blog. When I checked the Countdown page after reading the article the stops had yet to appear on the route list. It's obviously not just on the bus itself where there is a benefit but also for those waiting at a virtual stop. (checks R5 page) Ah there are lots more Hail and Ride stops now. However the listing, with multiple sub sections, is incomprehensible. I guess if you're local you might understand it but as a non local it looks an utter mess. While the route is a loop with a double run it should still be just one list in the right sequence. |
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Post by Paul on May 21, 2016 12:18:55 GMT
I'm reliably informed that iBus now announces these new timing points along with a 'Hail and Ride' message. Previously there was nothing from iBus to suggest the R5/R10 was Hail and Ride and the only announcements made were for the handful of fixed stops in Halstead and Knockholt Pound Whilst it now appears iBus won't shut up when we're going around the loop, it can only be a good thing for punters unfamiliar with the route and we get more of them than you might expect This change, with the virtual bus stops, was announced on a recent API update page on the TfL Digital Blog. When I checked the Countdown page after reading the article the stops had yet to appear on the route list. It's obviously not just on the bus itself where there is a benefit but also for those waiting at a virtual stop. (checks R5 page) Ah there are lots more Hail and Ride stops now. However the listing, with multiple sub sections, is incomprehensible. I guess if you're local you might understand it but as a non local it looks an utter mess. While the route is a loop with a double run it should still be just one list in the right sequence. You're right, it does look a mess. Even though I drive it and recognise all the 'stops' it's very difficult to pick out the stop you want. It definitely needs a rethink and, as you say, it just needs one easily readable list |
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Post by Paul on May 21, 2016 12:23:07 GMT
Actually, having looked at it again, I can see what they've done. Officially, where there are fixed stops, the route isn't Hail and Ride. Therefore, the sub headings differentiate between the Hail and Ride sections and fixed stop sections. If you ignore those sub headings then the stops are all listed in the correct order. Essentially, those sub headings are completely superfluous given the Hail and Ride stops are prefixed with a 'Hail and Ride'
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2016 18:53:34 GMT
Proposed changes. Route 283 will be cut from East Acton to Hammersmith once the Hammersmith bridge changes are complete. There will be a new DD Route numbered 239 will run from Roehampton Danebury Avenue to Acton Vale. There will be a new SD Route numbered 218 which will run from Hammersmith to North Acton via the existing 266 to Acton High Street and 440 to North Acton. Route 266 will be withdrawn between Hammersmith and North Acton. Route 440 will be re-routed directly between Acton High Street and North Acton and then via the existing routing to Stonebridge Park but extended to Wembley Central. snoggle see mystery route 218 |
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Post by riverside on May 22, 2016 19:08:34 GMT
Proposed changes. Route 283 will be cut from East Acton to Hammersmith once the Hammersmith bridge changes are complete. There will be a new DD Route numbered 239 will run from Roehampton Danebury Avenue to Acton Vale. There will be a new SD Route numbered 218 which will run from Hammersmith to North Acton via the existing 266 to Acton High Street and 440 to North Acton. Route 266 will be withdrawn between Hammersmith and North Acton. Route 440 will be re-routed directly between Acton High Street and North Acton and then via the existing routing to Stonebridge Park but extended to Wembley Central. snoggle see mystery route 218 Let's take these one at a time. The withdrawal of the 283 between Hammersmith and Barnes makes sense as the route tends to load very lightly on this section. The only question is whether a service to the Barnes Wetland Centre is still needed. A bifurcation on the 485 could serve this point if need be. The 239 proposal has been public knowledge for awhile. I have a feeling that when the route is up and running there will be little through traffic at Hammersmith, but I might be proved wrong. I had thought that the idea of the 239 was to replace the 72 shorts plus give the southern part of the 266 a bit of protection. Obviously that was not what TfL had in mind. |
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Post by riverside on May 22, 2016 19:17:08 GMT
Sorry I pressed the wrong button and cut myself off!
I cannot see the proposed 218 being an adequate replacement for the 266 if it is single decked. Large loads can be carried on the 266 and many passengers want to go further than Acton Vale. If it follows the 440 route via West Acton then I presume the frequency is probably only going to be every 15 minutes. To literally cut the 266 in half at North Acton seems very strange. If I am reading these proposals correctly there would be no bus service between Acton High Street and Harlesden Jubilee Clock. I can't see locals being happy.
Rerouting the 440 might have some benefits but the residents of the West Acton/Noel Road area will probably not be amused as many residents use the 440 to access the Asda at Park Royal.
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Post by snoggle on May 22, 2016 20:01:56 GMT
Sorry I pressed the wrong button and cut myself off! I cannot see the proposed 218 being an adequate replacement for the 266 if it is single decked. Large loads can be carried on the 266 and many passengers want to go further than Acton Vale. If it follows the 440 route via West Acton then I presume the frequency is probably only going to be every 15 minutes. To literally cut the 266 in half at North Acton seems very strange. If I am reading these proposals correctly there would be no bus service between Acton High Street and Harlesden Jubilee Clock. I can't see locals being happy. Rerouting the 440 might have some benefits but the residents of the West Acton/Noel Road area will probably not be amused as many residents use the 440 to access the Asda at Park Royal. Thanks to @david21 for the info on the route changes. riverside I do agree with your comments about demand for the 266 at Acton. I've waited near Morrisons for a 266 around school time and it was horrendous. Now OK the service was not running well but there were a lot of people waiting - huge numbers and more turning up all the time. A single deck route every 15 mins will simply not cope as you say. Imagine what will happen in the evenings when buses may only be half hourly? I assume also there will no night bus so a link through West London will be lost. Clearly TfL have taken the view that it's not possible to run the 266 reliably hence this set of "karate chop" (hi yah) bus changes. I also don't see the point in sending the 218 round the West Acton loop on the 440. I also can't see the Wetlands Centre being delighted at the loss of a bus link to its front door. Obviously we must wait for the inevitable consultation but this looks like another piece of radical surgery that won't go down well. |
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Post by vjaska on May 22, 2016 20:40:35 GMT
Sorry I pressed the wrong button and cut myself off! I cannot see the proposed 218 being an adequate replacement for the 266 if it is single decked. Large loads can be carried on the 266 and many passengers want to go further than Acton Vale. If it follows the 440 route via West Acton then I presume the frequency is probably only going to be every 15 minutes. To literally cut the 266 in half at North Acton seems very strange. If I am reading these proposals correctly there would be no bus service between Acton High Street and Harlesden Jubilee Clock. I can't see locals being happy. Rerouting the 440 might have some benefits but the residents of the West Acton/Noel Road area will probably not be amused as many residents use the 440 to access the Asda at Park Royal. Thanks to @david21 for the info on the route changes. riverside I do agree with your comments about demand for the 266 at Acton. I've waited near Morrisons for a 266 around school time and it was horrendous. Now OK the service was not running well but there were a lot of people waiting - huge numbers and more turning up all the time. A single deck route every 15 mins will simply not cope as you say. Imagine what will happen in the evenings when buses may only be half hourly? I assume also there will no night bus so a link through West London will be lost. Clearly TfL have taken the view that it's not possible to run the 266 reliably hence this set of "karate chop" (hi yah) bus changes. I also don't see the point in sending the 218 round the West Acton loop on the 440. I also can't see the Wetlands Centre being delighted at the loss of a bus link to its front door. Obviously we must wait for the inevitable consultation but this looks like another piece of radical surgery that won't go down well. I did elude to that in the 'Metroline' thread - personally, I think the changes are ludicrous especially replacing part of the 266 with a single decker route. |
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Post by riverside on May 23, 2016 10:18:32 GMT
Sorry I pressed the wrong button and cut myself off! I cannot see the proposed 218 being an adequate replacement for the 266 if it is single decked. Large loads can be carried on the 266 and many passengers want to go further than Acton Vale. If it follows the 440 route via West Acton then I presume the frequency is probably only going to be every 15 minutes. To literally cut the 266 in half at North Acton seems very strange. If I am reading these proposals correctly there would be no bus service between Acton High Street and Harlesden Jubilee Clock. I can't see locals being happy. Rerouting the 440 might have some benefits but the residents of the West Acton/Noel Road area will probably not be amused as many residents use the 440 to access the Asda at Park Royal. Thanks to @david21 for the info on the route changes. riverside I do agree with your comments about demand for the 266 at Acton. I've waited near Morrisons for a 266 around school time and it was horrendous. Now OK the service was not running well but there were a lot of people waiting - huge numbers and more turning up all the time. A single deck route every 15 mins will simply not cope as you say. Imagine what will happen in the evenings when buses may only be half hourly? I assume also there will no night bus so a link through West London will be lost. Clearly TfL have taken the view that it's not possible to run the 266 reliably hence this set of "karate chop" (hi yah) bus changes. I also don't see the point in sending the 218 round the West Acton loop on the 440. I also can't see the Wetlands Centre being delighted at the loss of a bus link to its front door. Obviously we must wait for the inevitable consultation but this looks like another piece of radical surgery that won't go down well. The 266 has always been difficult to operate but in the past it has always been decided that the benefits of maintaining a through service outweighed the disbenefits of lopping the route in two. I can remember many, many years ago the then Labour MP for Acton (Nigel Spearing) regularly writing into the letters page of the West London Observer complaining about the poor service on the 266 between Acton and Hammersmith. This was when the 266 was still supplemented by the 260 between these points during Monday to Friday rush hours and all day Saturday. During rush hours sometimes the queues could stretch from the old stand in Hammersmith Grove round the corner into King street and virtually to the Broadway. When the old 255 was withdrawn Riverside Garage gained a minority share(Monday-Saturday) on the 266 which meant that at least some buses were guaranteed to get to Hammersmith for meal breaks/crew reliefs. However one new problem was introduced for northbound journeys. If a 266 was scheduled to start inside Riverside Garage then the bus would turn left into King Street and serve the stop outside Marks and Spencer as its first stop, thus omitting the old trolleybus stand in the southern portion of Hammersmith Grove between King Street and Beadon Road. Passengers would be able to see an empty 266 go by and many would begin to race towards the M and S stop. Most conductors as I recall would be watching passengers board with one eye, whilst with the other watching the approaching stampede. Usually the conductors would get the waiting passengers on, ring the bell and the 266 would pull away rather emptier than it should, leaving passengers in various states of exhaustion shaking their fists as the bus continued on its way to Cricklewood or Colindale. I still feel that despite operational problems the 266 should continue to run as present. If it has to be split then I would suggest that the new 218 be double decked and run between Hammersmith and Craven Park with the 266 running between Brent Cross and Willesden Junction. To split the route at North Acton is just nonsensical. We will have to wait and see what the actual proposals are but I hate to think that TfL think that if passengers wish to travel between Acton and Harlesden they have to get the Overground to Willesden Junction and then walk or bus. Maybe the proposals are an indication of what is to come with the one hour bus transfer ticket. It now doesn't matter if we chuck passengers off at remote North Acton in the rain,cold,wind,thunder,sleet, snow or dark to wait for another bus to continue their journey as they will not have to pay again! |
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Post by thewintersoldier on May 23, 2016 10:39:26 GMT
Proposed changes. Route 283 will be cut from East Acton to Hammersmith once the Hammersmith bridge changes are complete. There will be a new DD Route numbered 239 will run from Roehampton Danebury Avenue to Acton Vale. There will be a new SD Route numbered 218 which will run from Hammersmith to North Acton via the existing 266 to Acton High Street and 440 to North Acton. Route 266 will be withdrawn between Hammersmith and North Acton. Route 440 will be re-routed directly between Acton High Street and North Acton and then via the existing routing to Stonebridge Park but extended to Wembley Central. snoggle see mystery route 218 My response to the 266 - youtu.be/hr0ckdRnVsE |
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Post by tony4387 on May 23, 2016 20:43:48 GMT
Proposed changes. Route 283 will be cut from East Acton to Hammersmith once the Hammersmith bridge changes are complete. There will be a new DD Route numbered 239 will run from Roehampton Danebury Avenue to Acton Vale. There will be a new SD Route numbered 218 which will run from Hammersmith to North Acton via the existing 266 to Acton High Street and 440 to North Acton. Route 266 will be withdrawn between Hammersmith and North Acton. Route 440 will be re-routed directly between Acton High Street and North Acton and then via the existing routing to Stonebridge Park but extended to Wembley Central. snoggle see mystery route 218 My response to the 266 - youtu.be/hr0ckdRnVsE |
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Post by tony4387 on May 23, 2016 20:44:21 GMT
Be interesting to see who will operate the new 239'and 218
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Post by snoggle on May 23, 2016 21:48:19 GMT
The 266 has always been difficult to operate but in the past it has always been decided that the benefits of maintaining a through service outweighed the disbenefits of lopping the route in two. I can remember many, many years ago the then Labour MP for Acton (Nigel Spearing) regularly writing into the letters page of the West London Observer complaining about the poor service on the 266 between Acton and Hammersmith. This was when the 266 was still supplemented by the 260 between these points during Monday to Friday rush hours and all day Saturday. During rush hours sometimes the queues could stretch from the old stand in Hammersmith Grove round the corner into King street and virtually to the Broadway. When the old 255 was withdrawn Riverside Garage gained a minority share(Monday-Saturday) on the 266 which meant that at least some buses were guaranteed to get to Hammersmith for meal breaks/crew reliefs. However one new problem was introduced for northbound journeys. If a 266 was scheduled to start inside Riverside Garage then the bus would turn left into King Street and serve the stop outside Marks and Spencer as its first stop, thus omitting the old trolleybus stand in the southern portion of Hammersmith Grove between King Street and Beadon Road. Passengers would be able to see an empty 266 go by and many would begin to race towards the M and S stop. Most conductors as I recall would be watching passengers board with one eye, whilst with the other watching the approaching stampede. Usually the conductors would get the waiting passengers on, ring the bell and the 266 would pull away rather emptier than it should, leaving passengers in various states of exhaustion shaking their fists as the bus continued on its way to Cricklewood or Colindale. I still feel that despite operational problems the 266 should continue to run as present. If it has to be split then I would suggest that the new 218 be double decked and run between Hammersmith and Craven Park with the 266 running between Brent Cross and Willesden Junction. To split the route at North Acton is just nonsensical. We will have to wait and see what the actual proposals are but I hate to think that TfL think that if passengers wish to travel between Acton and Harlesden they have to get the Overground to Willesden Junction and then walk or bus. Maybe the proposals are an indication of what is to come with the one hour bus transfer ticket. It now doesn't matter if we chuck passengers off at remote North Acton in the rain,cold,wind,thunder,sleet, snow or dark to wait for another bus to continue their journey as they will not have to pay again! Love the anecdote about the King St sprint.  When I did the 266 end to end last year it took three buses to do it as we kept being curtailed and thrown off. To date that is the absolute worst end to end journey I've ever had in London. The problem, though, as you clearly know is that there are pretty strong flows all along the route so there's not an ideal place to cut it. North Acton is particularly stupid IMO given the general gloom of the area (horrible place to wait). I agree an overlap in the Harlesden / Willesden Junc area probably makes much more sense especially given the numbers changing for trains at Willesden Junction. |
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2016 22:37:21 GMT
Most peculiar. Why not have the 239 going to Harlesdon instead of Acton ? Or extend the 220 to Acton ? The 218 is doomed to fail, if it was going via the 266 and all the way to Harlesdon or Craven Cottage and double deck then fine ...(maybe !)
Why have they increased the 83/483 substantially yet propose to more than half the service capacity and frequency wise on the North Acton - Hammersmith leg of the 266 ??
The only good thing is the 440 getting extended to Wembley Central. If it were rerouted in the Turnham Green area to avoid the mega low bridge it could be double decked.
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Post by snoggle on May 26, 2016 17:59:16 GMT
After a 7 week "holiday" the Service Change Bulletin has actually been updated. ( THUD )  Nearly all the detail is simply catching up with what has been happening. The last page sets out this weekend's changes and no further look ahead. |
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