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Post by Eastlondoner62 on May 24, 2021 10:17:04 GMT
It’s more than weird, it’s stupid. The whole night time economy is starting up very quickly. This weekend gone was really busy. London needs a resilient transport network at night, otherwise disorder gets worse with people not getting home quickly. We need the night tube up and running from the first weekend post 21st June. Agreed. I would have expected these changes to have happened early on in lockdown, not when we are ramping up to fully open up our noght time economy. Pubs and restaurants are fully opened and night clubs will soon follow. No night tube either. I guess Uber won’t be complaining. I think the night tube is a very sticky situation, the night time economy while big, isn't nearly that of the scale of other cities. London is still very much a city that sleeps when compared to cities like New York, Las Vegas, Shanghai and Mumbai. The night tube if I'm right was very razor thin with how profitable it was, and I believe it actually ran at quite a loss initially if it wasn't still making a loss when it closed down. It's almost certain that if it re-opened now that it would be making a loss again and that's the last thing TfL will want to do at a time where they need to save every penny. The night economy's future is probably a bit hard to predict at the moment, on one hand people will have missed the night clubs and late night bars, but on the other hand with more people working from home they might just opt to start going to more local bars and restaurants all days of the week rather than wait specifically for the weekend, meaning they might not flock to Central London in as big numbers. TfL do intend to reopen the night tube again soon, so I think they're just waiting for a case of when rather than if. I'd be surprised if it's this year, but it could be depending on how fast the economy picks up. I think Andy Byford mentioned a target timeframe but I can't remember it off the top of my head. I also think they might start to tinker the bus network when they do this, I wouldn't be too surprised if some weekend night services get a cut in frequency or don't return at all in their entirety in favour for a few other routes being added.
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2021 10:23:36 GMT
Agreed. I would have expected these changes to have happened early on in lockdown, not when we are ramping up to fully open up our noght time economy. Pubs and restaurants are fully opened and night clubs will soon follow. No night tube either. I guess Uber won’t be complaining. I think the night tube is a very sticky situation, the night time economy while big, isn't nearly that of the scale of other cities. London is still very much a city that sleeps when compared to cities like New York, Las Vegas, Shanghai and Mumbai. The night tube if I'm right was very razor thin with how profitable it was, and I believe it actually ran at quite a loss initially if it wasn't still making a loss when it closed down. It's almost certain that if it re-opened now that it would be making a loss again and that's the last thing TfL will want to do at a time where they need to save every penny. The night economy's future is probably a bit hard to predict at the moment, on one hand people will have missed the night clubs and late night bars, but on the other hand with more people working from home they might just opt to start going to more local bars and restaurants all days of the week rather than wait specifically for the weekend, meaning they might not flock to Central London in as big numbers. TfL do intend to reopen the night tube again soon, so I think they're just waiting for a case of when rather than if. I'd be surprised if it's this year, but it could be depending on how fast the economy picks up. I think Andy Byford mentioned a target timeframe but I can't remember it off the top of my head. I also think they might start to tinker the bus network when they do this, I wouldn't be too surprised if some weekend night services get a cut in frequency or don't return at all in their entirety in favour for a few other routes being added. Have to disagree with the notion of a sleepy London at night. It may take 12 months but full on night life will return for sure. And I actually think it will be busier than ever.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on May 24, 2021 10:41:12 GMT
I think the night tube is a very sticky situation, the night time economy while big, isn't nearly that of the scale of other cities. London is still very much a city that sleeps when compared to cities like New York, Las Vegas, Shanghai and Mumbai. The night tube if I'm right was very razor thin with how profitable it was, and I believe it actually ran at quite a loss initially if it wasn't still making a loss when it closed down. It's almost certain that if it re-opened now that it would be making a loss again and that's the last thing TfL will want to do at a time where they need to save every penny. The night economy's future is probably a bit hard to predict at the moment, on one hand people will have missed the night clubs and late night bars, but on the other hand with more people working from home they might just opt to start going to more local bars and restaurants all days of the week rather than wait specifically for the weekend, meaning they might not flock to Central London in as big numbers. TfL do intend to reopen the night tube again soon, so I think they're just waiting for a case of when rather than if. I'd be surprised if it's this year, but it could be depending on how fast the economy picks up. I think Andy Byford mentioned a target timeframe but I can't remember it off the top of my head. I also think they might start to tinker the bus network when they do this, I wouldn't be too surprised if some weekend night services get a cut in frequency or don't return at all in their entirety in favour for a few other routes being added. Have to disagree with the notion of a sleepy London at night. It may take 12 months but full on night life will return for sure. And I actually think it will be busier than ever. What Londoners may think of London as not sleepy, generally globally the view very much holds. You only have to look at some cities where pretty much every shop is 24 hour. New York a city which never sleeps where everything runs pretty much 24 hours and even little things like the Island ferries run until 3am. You can even just take a look online of examples of 24 hour cities and London pretty much never makes the cut on any of them. It's just the culture in the UK that people often have office work the next day so do actually need sleep.
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Post by greenboy on May 24, 2021 11:12:12 GMT
Seems weird they've waited until things are opening up again to reduce them. It’s more than weird, it’s stupid. The whole night time economy is starting up very quickly. This weekend gone was really busy. London needs a resilient transport network at night, otherwise disorder gets worse with people not getting home quickly. We need the night tube up and running from the first weekend post 21st June. It is stupid that after running empty night buses around during lock down TfL are reducing services just as things are getting back to normal. I think it will be at least next year until the night tube resumes though. It was to be expected that last weekend would be busy but I think numbers will gradually drop as the novelty wears off.
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Post by danorak on May 24, 2021 11:22:42 GMT
It’s more than weird, it’s stupid. The whole night time economy is starting up very quickly. This weekend gone was really busy. London needs a resilient transport network at night, otherwise disorder gets worse with people not getting home quickly. We need the night tube up and running from the first weekend post 21st June. It is stupid that after running empty night buses around during lock down TfL are reducing services just as things are getting back to normal. I think it will be at least next year until the night tube resumes though. It was to be expected that last weekend would be busy but I think numbers will gradually drop as the novelty wears off. The provision over lockdown would have been to support essential shift workers as a time when capacity was severely restricted on vehicles. Now those capacity limits have been loosened, I suppose TfL think they can take some resource out. I'm not sure about the novelty wearing off. There is a school of thought that says we are in for a period of prolonged 1920s style partying: people have lost a year of their lives to the pandemic and many will want to make up for lost time. And there may well be an attitude of 'seize the day' as who knows what will happen? Or we may all remain too scared to venture out! Either way, TfL is going to have to be flexible.
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Post by greenboy on May 24, 2021 11:43:09 GMT
It is stupid that after running empty night buses around during lock down TfL are reducing services just as things are getting back to normal. I think it will be at least next year until the night tube resumes though. It was to be expected that last weekend would be busy but I think numbers will gradually drop as the novelty wears off. The provision over lockdown would have been to support essential shift workers as a time when capacity was severely restricted on vehicles. Now those capacity limits have been loosened, I suppose TfL think they can take some resource out. I'm not sure about the novelty wearing off. There is a school of thought that says we are in for a period of prolonged 1920s style partying: people have lost a year of their lives to the pandemic and many will want to make up for lost time. And there may well be an attitude of 'seize the day' as who knows what will happen? Or we may all remain too scared to venture out! Either way, TfL is going to have to be flexible. But services could have been reduced during lockdown in line with the fall in demand just as many train services have been reduced. I can't really see any 1920s style partying returning, obviously there is much more at home entertainment available nowadays and there will be people who have got out of the habit of going out pubbing and clubbing and won't go back to their old lifestyle. But it is all a bit of an unknown quantity and and as you say TfL will need to be flexible.
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Post by paulsw2 on May 24, 2021 13:20:43 GMT
Have to disagree with the notion of a sleepy London at night. It may take 12 months but full on night life will return for sure. And I actually think it will be busier than ever. What Londoners may think of London as not sleepy, generally globally the view very much holds. You only have to look at some cities where pretty much every shop is 24 hour. New York a city which never sleeps where everything runs pretty much 24 hours and even little things like the Island ferries run until 3am. You can even just take a look online of examples of 24 hour cities and London pretty much never makes the cut on any of them. It's just the culture in the UK that people often have office work the next day so do actually need sleep. Night tube WILL NOT return this year it will be March 2022 at the earliest as most of the existing NT t/ops will be going full time days given that all tube depots are short on establishment operators the pools ( spare list) are also depleted because of retirement etc it will take 3/4 months to train the additional full time drivers then 3/4 months to train any drivers required for NT
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Post by southlondonbus on May 24, 2021 13:41:36 GMT
TFL have advised business' on Oxford Street that there will be just 3 stops on Oxford Street (John Lewis, Selfridges and Marble Arch) and that all routes will stop at the same stop now. With only 7 routes I guess the need to have multiple stops each serving a common set of routes is not needed now.
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Post by vjaska on May 24, 2021 14:22:34 GMT
The provision over lockdown would have been to support essential shift workers as a time when capacity was severely restricted on vehicles. Now those capacity limits have been loosened, I suppose TfL think they can take some resource out. I'm not sure about the novelty wearing off. There is a school of thought that says we are in for a period of prolonged 1920s style partying: people have lost a year of their lives to the pandemic and many will want to make up for lost time. And there may well be an attitude of 'seize the day' as who knows what will happen? Or we may all remain too scared to venture out! Either way, TfL is going to have to be flexible. But services could have been reduced during lockdown in line with the fall in demand just as many train services have been reduced. I can't really see any 1920s style partying returning, obviously there is much more at home entertainment available nowadays and there will be people who have got out of the habit of going out pubbing and clubbing and won't go back to their old lifestyle. But it is all a bit of an unknown quantity and and as you say TfL will need to be flexible. Buses are a more localised type of transport than overhead trains and given the amount of people travelling to work by train was far lower than by bus which poorly paid workers heavily rely on, it made sense to reduce train services during lockdown. Reducing night buses during now or during lockdown isn’t a great move for multiple reasons
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Post by greenboy on May 24, 2021 14:34:41 GMT
TFL have advised business' on Oxford Street that there will be just 3 stops on Oxford Street (John Lewis, Selfridges and Marble Arch) and that all routes will stop at the same stop now. With only 7 routes I guess the need to have multiple stops each serving a common set of routes is not needed now. And 7 buses all arrive at once it'll be chaos like the Park Lane stop.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on May 24, 2021 14:56:15 GMT
TFL have advised business' on Oxford Street that there will be just 3 stops on Oxford Street (John Lewis, Selfridges and Marble Arch) and that all routes will stop at the same stop now. With only 7 routes I guess the need to have multiple stops each serving a common set of routes is not needed now. And 7 buses all arrive at once it'll be chaos like the Park Lane stop. If I'm being honest I don't think it'll be 7 routes for long... Off the top of my head it's the 7, 98, 139, 94, 159, 113 and 390. I wouldn't be too surprised to see the 94 truncation potentially being re-visited alongside the 159 one. This would leave only 5 routes.
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Post by greenboy on May 24, 2021 15:03:39 GMT
And 7 buses all arrive at once it'll be chaos like the Park Lane stop. If I'm being honest I don't think it'll be 7 routes for long... Off the top of my head it's the 7, 98, 139, 94, 159, 113 and 390. I wouldn't be too surprised to see the 94 truncation potentially being re-visited alongside the 159 one. This would leave only 5 routes. Yes more than likely and removing the 159 from Marble Arch would provide stand space for the 414.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on May 24, 2021 15:07:09 GMT
If I'm being honest I don't think it'll be 7 routes for long... Off the top of my head it's the 7, 98, 139, 94, 159, 113 and 390. I wouldn't be too surprised to see the 94 truncation potentially being re-visited alongside the 159 one. This would leave only 5 routes. Yes more than likely and removing the 159 from Marble Arch would provide stand space for the 414. There were reports of a new stand materialising at Marble Arch in another thread, I don't think the 414 will be taking the 159s spot.
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Post by evergreenadam on May 24, 2021 15:08:00 GMT
And 7 buses all arrive at once it'll be chaos like the Park Lane stop. If I'm being honest I don't think it'll be 7 routes for long... Off the top of my head it's the 7, 98, 139, 94, 159, 113 and 390. I wouldn't be too surprised to see the 94 truncation potentially being re-visited alongside the 159 one. This would leave only 5 routes. A consolidation of stops in the most popular locations would be sensible given the reduction in the number of routes. If a visitor to Oxford Street then I would currently struggle to find the right bus stop for my destination, partly because the bus stop locations are offset from the biggest stores. That level of dispersal is not needed now and providing a prominent bus stop right outside the big stores will help both the bus routes and the shops to survive.
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Post by southlondonbus on May 24, 2021 15:24:57 GMT
Yes more than likely and removing the 159 from Marble Arch would provide stand space for the 414. There were reports of a new stand materialising at Marble Arch in another thread, I don't think the 414 will be taking the 159s spot. Doesn't rule out the 94 though if the North Row stand wasn't practical or too much hassle to create.
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