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Post by lundnah on Feb 19, 2024 9:05:01 GMT
Changes to buses from in Sutton & Croydon from Saturday 2 March 2024 Confirms that the 434 is going to be running directly down Godstone Road following the 407 and will be extended to Caterham as was planned, and the 439 is going to be replacing the 434 along all of the back roads between Purley and Whyteleafe South. I suspect route maps will be uploaded soon given the large gaps left between each route description on the webpage. It seems odd that the 434 will simply shadow the 407 to Whyteleafe rather then meandering around the top of Kenley as proposed.
Maybe that's being held back for later.
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Post by matthieu1221 on Feb 19, 2024 13:20:36 GMT
This would’ve been a change that deserved a map… far more necessary than the map produced for the short 189 diversion to Brent Cross West Station.
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Post by va59 on Feb 19, 2024 16:54:40 GMT
Confirms that the 434 is going to be running directly down Godstone Road following the 407 and will be extended to Caterham as was planned, and the 439 is going to be replacing the 434 along all of the back roads between Purley and Whyteleafe South. I suspect route maps will be uploaded soon given the large gaps left between each route description on the webpage. So nothing up Higher Drive (currently unserved part) then although the new developments look nearly complete. Purley to Caterham via Godstone Road get an extra 2bph. Yes, I don't understand that at all. Two routes literally following each other all the way from Purley to Caterham and nothing further up Higher Drive which I believed was for this very purpose - to serve an area with increased housing?
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Post by ibus246 on Feb 19, 2024 17:48:33 GMT
So nothing up Higher Drive (currently unserved part) then although the new developments look nearly complete. Purley to Caterham via Godstone Road get an extra 2bph. Yes, I don't understand that at all. Two routes literally following each other all the way from Purley to Caterham and nothing further up Higher Drive which I believed was for this very purpose - to serve an area with increased housing? Absolutely. There’s been a lot of comment online in the neighbourhood groups today about residents in parts of Kenley that the 434 currently serves on a hail and ride basis now losing their direct bus to Coulsdon. And not comments in a good way.
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Post by londonbuses on Feb 19, 2024 17:52:15 GMT
Yes, I don't understand that at all. Two routes literally following each other all the way from Purley to Caterham and nothing further up Higher Drive which I believed was for this very purpose - to serve an area with increased housing? Absolutely. There’s been a lot of comment online in the neighbourhood groups today about residents in parts of Kenley that the 434 currently serves on a hail and ride basis now losing their direct bus to Coulsdon. And not comments in a good way. I still don't understand why the 434 wasn't just left alone, with the 439 serving the new back roads in Kenley (or running directly along Godstone Road).
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Post by YY13VKP on Feb 19, 2024 18:19:50 GMT
Absolutely. There’s been a lot of comment online in the neighbourhood groups today about residents in parts of Kenley that the 434 currently serves on a hail and ride basis now losing their direct bus to Coulsdon. And not comments in a good way. I still don't understand why the 434 wasn't just left alone, with the 439 serving the new back roads in Kenley (or running directly along Godstone Road). Whilst I don't know any official reason for the change of routing for the 434 and 439, I wouldn't be surprised if this change was necessitated due to longer buses being required for the 439 and nothing longer than 8.9m can really go round the top of Kenley due to a tight turn on Firs Road and Cullesden Road in Kenley so the 434 fills that instead. I agree on your earlier point not understanding why TfL are running the 434 via the 407 route between Purley and Caterham. It's baffling - but the fact that the proposal was to serve the Higher Drive area between Kenley and Purley and that there is still building work going on along Higher Drive on most of the new flats that are being built there screams that this is temporary and the 434 re-routing around Kenley has been postponed until a later date. It's just not sustainable to have the 434 follow the same roads as the 407 between Caterham and Purley in the long term so the re-routing must still be going ahead, just not now. TfL should have made this clear though, there would be a lot of backlash from local residents about this as ibus246 has highlighted. There are also a lot of parked cars along Higher Drive as a result of the flats not being finished, which could have made TfL think the roads the 434 will serve are currently unsuitable for buses, but it is much wider than Northwood Avenue so buses should be able to get through without much issue.
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Post by PGAT on Feb 19, 2024 18:22:43 GMT
That change has been postponed as mentioned by @notcha recently - great for me as I've still not got round to riding the 407 since it went double deck ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/grin.png) I hope TfL are re-thinking this change, a split 407 operating between West Croydon and Sutton is no longer viable IMO. Maybe it's because there isn't space at West Croydon? Remember these proposals predated Superloop and the SL7 now serves the bus station with double frequency
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Post by YY13VKP on Feb 19, 2024 18:24:08 GMT
I thought the 407 was going to be cut from Croydon with 443 introduced? That change has been postponed as mentioned by @notcha recently - great for me as I've still not got round to riding the 407 since it went double deck ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/grin.png) I hope TfL are re-thinking this change, a split 407 operating between West Croydon and Sutton is no longer commercially viable IMO. As most people are aware this has been proposed since 2021 and didn't take into account the introduction of the SL7 at the time.
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Post by TB123 on Feb 19, 2024 18:26:38 GMT
Yes, I don't understand that at all. Two routes literally following each other all the way from Purley to Caterham and nothing further up Higher Drive which I believed was for this very purpose - to serve an area with increased housing? Absolutely. There’s been a lot of comment online in the neighbourhood groups today about residents in parts of Kenley that the 434 currently serves on a hail and ride basis now losing their direct bus to Coulsdon. And not comments in a good way. I never understood why, and I responded accordingly to the consultation at the time, why they didn't just leave the 434 as is and have the 439 run via Higher Drive (& Godstone Road after Kenley Station as already proposed) and along to Caterham instead. I reckon with the 4th bus they'd of needed they could have even extended it a few stops along to terminate at Valley Park. I'm sure there's some reasons for it, but as an observer it seemed odd and unnecessarily confusing
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Post by TB123 on Feb 19, 2024 18:30:16 GMT
That change has been postponed as mentioned by @notcha recently - great for me as I've still not got round to riding the 407 since it went double deck ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/grin.png) I hope TfL are re-thinking this change, a split 407 operating between West Croydon and Sutton is no longer commercially viable IMO. As most people are aware this has been proposed since 2021 and didn't take into account the introduction of the SL7 at the time. [br I actually think TfL are somewhat sensible to park the 407 changes and look over this again. Part of me even wonders if the SL7 tender will be extended again to coincide with the 407 tender ending in November 2026.
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Post by sam97 on Feb 19, 2024 18:31:47 GMT
The 97 frequency increase is happening: On 2nd March the 97 will run every 12 minutes from first bus till 06:30 on Monday to Fridays and every evenings.
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Post by greenboy on Feb 20, 2024 10:28:17 GMT
Yes, I don't understand that at all. Two routes literally following each other all the way from Purley to Caterham and nothing further up Higher Drive which I believed was for this very purpose - to serve an area with increased housing? Absolutely. There’s been a lot of comment online in the neighbourhood groups today about residents in parts of Kenley that the 434 currently serves on a hail and ride basis now losing their direct bus to Coulsdon. And not comments in a good way. I've not seen any positive comments at all, just a lot of confused people wondering what the point of these changes is.
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Post by gwiwer on Feb 20, 2024 11:50:26 GMT
Why does the 434 go all the way to Caterham Station under the changes? Is it simply because there is no other turn / stand available? Wapses Lodge is a one-bus stand for the 439. Nothing at Upper Warlingham? I agree it is nonsensical to sever links to Coulsdon town centre which have become established and provide most of the traffic for the current 434 along the narrow roads. It's not an easy route and buses do sometimes get stuck when faced with an oncoming vehicle or a badly-parked one but those homes are a long way from the main road when you factor in the need to cross the railway. What is the proposed / expected route from Higher Drive? Would that be Cullesden Road / Firs Road / Park Road or all the way along Hayes Lane??
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Post by YY13VKP on Feb 20, 2024 12:34:59 GMT
Why does the 434 go all the way to Caterham Station under the changes? Is it simply because there is no other turn / stand available? Wapses Lodge is a one-bus stand for the 439. Nothing at Upper Warlingham? I agree it is nonsensical to sever links to Coulsdon town centre which have become established and provide most of the traffic for the current 434 along the narrow roads. It's not an easy route and buses do sometimes get stuck when faced with an oncoming vehicle or a badly-parked one but those homes are a long way from the main road when you factor in the need to cross the railway. What is the proposed / expected route from Higher Drive? Would that be Cullesden Road / Firs Road / Park Road or all the way along Hayes Lane?? The original plan was for the 434 to follow its current routing up until Kenley Station, then instead of turning right into Oaks Way like it does now, it was going to go straight up Park Road, down Hayes Lane, round Wattendon Road to serve The Hayes Primary School, then going down Firs Road, Cullesden Road and Higher Drive, rejoining its original route at Foxley Hill Road. I think the main reasons for extending the 434 to Caterham was to provide a direct bus link from Coulsdon to Caterham Valley which is great, but it would have also been a trade off for a frequency reduction between Purley and Caterham for the 407/443 which has been shelved for the time being. I don't think stand space at Whyteleafe South was an issue, as others have highlighted you can easily fit two buses on that stand at a time. What I think would have been more useful to provide a link between Coulsdon and Caterham Valley though was to extend the 404 from Caterham-on-the-Hill. How TfL deemed that this wasn't "cost effective" is beyond me, more people would use the bus if TfL were operating it.
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Post by YY13VKP on Feb 20, 2024 13:34:58 GMT
Just seen a message posted on a local community group re the 434 not serving Higher Drive, not sure how accurate this is but the rationale does add up.
Apparently TfL are waiting on works around the top end of Higher Drive to be completed to make it safe for bus operation before the 434 starts going up there. They are also waiting for construction work on the flats to be completed (or near enough complete) so that the parked cars and construction vehicles are no longer a problem. There was work going on around there that was completed only last week but there’s either more work required or the problem is mainly the construction work.
The same message also suggests that this is the same reason why the 407/443 change has been postponed though I don’t think that part is correct, given what we are seeing with the SL7.
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