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Post by route53 on Feb 15, 2022 19:02:19 GMT
The Victoria service is handy as it’s the nearest service we have to a cross South London rail link, whether it comes from Woolwich, Bexleyheath or Sidcup it doesn’t matter, Peckham, Denmark Hill and Camberwell are hard places to travel to from say Woolwich or Blackheath or Bexleyheath without it.
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Post by greenboy on Feb 15, 2022 19:20:24 GMT
The Victoria service is handy as it’s the nearest service we have to a cross South London rail link, whether it comes from Woolwich, Bexleyheath or Sidcup it doesn’t matter, Peckham, Denmark Hill and Camberwell are hard places to travel to from say Woolwich or Blackheath or Bexleyheath without it. Yes the Victoria service is very useful hence my suggestion it should be increased to 4tph, probably 2tph via Bexleyheath line as now and 2tph to either Dartford via Sidcup, Hayes or Orpington.
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Post by vjaska on Feb 15, 2022 19:41:37 GMT
The Victoria service is handy as it’s the nearest service we have to a cross South London rail link, whether it comes from Woolwich, Bexleyheath or Sidcup it doesn’t matter, Peckham, Denmark Hill and Camberwell are hard places to travel to from say Woolwich or Blackheath or Bexleyheath without it. A service from Victoria via Peckham Rye down to your way is very handy as your say
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Post by buspete on Feb 15, 2022 22:09:54 GMT
4 tph would go some way to replace the lost London Bridge to Victoria, so would be a reasonable idea. Not sure if Orpington service would be good as there is a good service from there to Victoria and the other stations Nunhead/Peckham Rye/Denmark Hill stations are picketed up by Thameslink.
The seldom time I have used this service and it is seldom, I observe more people get on/off at Denmark Hill for King’s Hospital than Victoria.
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Post by twobellstogo on Feb 15, 2022 22:57:49 GMT
4 tph would go some way to replace the lost London Bridge to Victoria, so would be a reasonable idea. Not sure if Orpington service would be good as there is a good service from there to Victoria and the other stations Nunhead/Peckham Rye/Denmark Hill stations are picketed up by Thameslink. The seldom time I have used this service and it is seldom, I observe more people get on/off at Denmark Hill for King’s Hospital than Victoria. Something I do very frequently is use the Vic via Bexleyheath to Denmark Hill, and change there for Clapham Junction - it misses out zone 1 on my journeys out to SWR land for work. Timings don’t always work, and often it’s quicker to go via Waterloo, but when it does work, it’s really useful.
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Post by vjaska on Feb 16, 2022 1:43:32 GMT
4 tph would go some way to replace the lost London Bridge to Victoria, so would be a reasonable idea. Not sure if Orpington service would be good as there is a good service from there to Victoria and the other stations Nunhead/Peckham Rye/Denmark Hill stations are picketed up by Thameslink. The seldom time I have used this service and it is seldom, I observe more people get on/off at Denmark Hill for King’s Hospital than Victoria. Something I do very frequently is use the Vic via Bexleyheath to Denmark Hill, and change there for Clapham Junction - it misses out zone 1 on my journeys out to SWR land for work. Timings don’t always work, and often it’s quicker to go via Waterloo, but when it does work, it’s really useful. When needing access to South East London & beyond, the Victoria service has been a great help - usually I start at Tulse Hill, take a Southern service to Peckham Rye and then go from there
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Post by route53 on Feb 16, 2022 9:48:57 GMT
The Victoria service is handy as it’s the nearest service we have to a cross South London rail link, whether it comes from Woolwich, Bexleyheath or Sidcup it doesn’t matter, Peckham, Denmark Hill and Camberwell are hard places to travel to from say Woolwich or Blackheath or Bexleyheath without it. A service from Victoria via Peckham Rye down to your way is very handy as your say I’m based in Blackheath so Victoria benefits me regardless, I’d hate to lose that link, I travel to SW London regularly, and although it takes me three trains to get to Putney or Richmond it’s better than paying for a zone 1 fare :-)
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Post by buspete on Feb 16, 2022 21:36:45 GMT
I have a season ticket still, so if I am going to SW London it is quicker to go via Waterloo. Saying that I have got London Overground before to Denmark Hill from Clapham Junction and that train comes in at Denmark Hill exactly the same time as the Bexleyheath train, you have to be off the train exactly where the stairs are and need to be quick, or there is a half hour wait!
To get a train from going to Bexleyheath from the down fast into platform 4 at Lewisham is complex, with so many conflicting moves. I thought it was still possible to still route trains through New Cross platforms and on to the Charing Cross lines after the platform, this move would be less complex?
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Post by buspete on Feb 17, 2022 12:28:16 GMT
I am sure I have been on a train from Charing Cross that has gone through New Cross Station recently? It maybe the vice versa journey might not be possible,
I know it is not possible to have a Greenwich - Charing Cross service.
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Post by wirewiper on Feb 17, 2022 14:33:05 GMT
I am sure I have been on a train from Charing Cross that has gone through New Cross Station recently? It maybe the vice versa journey might not be possible, I know it is not possible to have a Greenwich - Charing Cross service. It is possible (I think!), but Southeastern prefers to run services from the Greenwich Line into Cannon Street only to reduce the number of conflicting moves on the approach to London Bridge. That is also the reason why there aren't usually trains from St John's and New Cross into Charing Cross. It is surprising how much extra line capacity (in terms of trains per hour) can be gained by eliminating as many conflicting moves as possible. I know there are still a lot of conflicting moves at Lewisham but the fast longer-distance services have peeled off by then.
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Post by buspete on Feb 17, 2022 15:16:06 GMT
I am sure I have been on a train from Charing Cross that has gone through New Cross Station recently? It maybe the vice versa journey might not be possible.
I am aware of difficulties of conflicting moves, where I work Aldgate is one of the biggest in Europe. Hence why I said getting an ex Charing Cross train into Lewisham Plat 4 via Tanner Hill is a headache, so wondering if it easier to still route via New Cross?
I know it is not possible to have a Greenwich - Charing Cross service, that move just before the old London Bridge Station, fo that to happen trains would have to pass Thameslink, that is not viable. A big loss for tourists, no Greenwich train from the West End.
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Post by vjaska on Feb 17, 2022 15:29:47 GMT
I am sure I have been on a train from Charing Cross that has gone through New Cross Station recently? It maybe the vice versa journey might not be possible. I am aware of difficulties of conflicting moves, where I work Aldgate is one of the biggest in Europe. Hence why I said getting an ex Charing Cross train into Lewisham Plat 4 via Tanner Hill is a headache, so wondering if it easier to still route via New Cross? I know it is not possible to have a Greenwich - Charing Cross service, that move just before the old London Bridge Station, fo that to happen trains would have to pass Thameslink, that is not viable. A big loss for tourists, no Greenwich train from the West End. I don't think the tourists are going stop visiting Greenwich because there isn't a direct train from Charing Cross - you can change at London Bridge for starters. On top of that, the river boat & 188 exist - now the latter might not be ideal but the river boat pre-pandemic was used quite well AFAIK down to Greenwich but happy to be corrected.
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Post by greenboy on Feb 17, 2022 15:57:10 GMT
I am sure I have been on a train from Charing Cross that has gone through New Cross Station recently? It maybe the vice versa journey might not be possible. I am aware of difficulties of conflicting moves, where I work Aldgate is one of the biggest in Europe. Hence why I said getting an ex Charing Cross train into Lewisham Plat 4 via Tanner Hill is a headache, so wondering if it easier to still route via New Cross? I know it is not possible to have a Greenwich - Charing Cross service, that move just before the old London Bridge Station, fo that to happen trains would have to pass Thameslink, that is not viable. A big loss for tourists, no Greenwich train from the West End. I don't see why you think getting a train into platform 4 from Charing Cross is a headache? The Tanners Hill slope was widened for that very purpose. There are no scheduled services between Charing Cross and New Cross/St John's, even before the Thameslink scheme there were no services at peak times because of track capacity. The basic idea is that trains from Charing Cross stay on the fast lines thus avoiding conflicting movements, off the top of my head trains via Woolwich or Bexleyheath serve Lewisham via the Tanners Hill slope, trains via Sidcup or to Orpington/Sevenoaks run fast to Hither Green or Grove Park and Hayes trains run fast to Ladywell.
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Post by 700101 on Feb 17, 2022 19:04:24 GMT
I am sure I have been on a train from Charing Cross that has gone through New Cross Station recently? It maybe the vice versa journey might not be possible, I know it is not possible to have a Greenwich - Charing Cross service. A few times a Charing X service has used the slow lines via New Cross this would be if there was a infrastructure issue on the Tannners Hill/fast lines, broken down train or tree on line the line etc, 1 Charing X service did use the slow lines this week crossing over at North East Kent Junction also last week SE took the opportunity to route a late running Charing X service fast via Greenwich using one of the TL’s cancelled train path to cross over at North Kent East Junction, also when TL are diverted via Lewisham they always use to slow lines, the only time TL used the fast lines was around 2yrs ago when there was gas cylinders issue just beyond Elephant & Castle and TL diverted there Orpington services via (and stopping) at Hither Green (when SE drivers were regularly driving TL services)
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Post by buspete on Feb 20, 2022 2:08:58 GMT
Interesting.
What prompted this was that there was talk of the Woolwich/Bexleyheath Line losing the Charing Cross service as difficulties routing trains on to the Tanner Hill Junction, we now find out there is an alternative and that it is possible for the Charing Cross service to call at New Cross.
The loss of Greenwich to Charing Cross is significant.
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