|
Post by SILENCED on Mar 15, 2019 13:23:15 GMT
Possible I guess. I had vaguely pondered for a second or two where the buses might come from but nothing sprang to mind other than rusting Cadets sat at Edmonton garage. Still begs the question where the drivers will come from as I assume some ex393 will transfer to Metroline and others could easily be rostered to other routes given all operators have a staffing problem. If they're going to put something as small as ENS on the supplementary RRS they can't be expected many to use it. To be fair the western RRS, when I used it, was woefully underused off peak. I had a whole RATP Trident to myself. The eastern one from Barking was better used but part of that was savvy locals getting a free express ride rather than use a normal bus. Are the withdrawn ENLs still with Arriva? If so still serviceable?
|
|
|
Post by redexpress on Mar 15, 2019 13:41:05 GMT
Possible I guess. I had vaguely pondered for a second or two where the buses might come from but nothing sprang to mind other than rusting Cadets sat at Edmonton garage. Still begs the question where the drivers will come from as I assume some ex393 will transfer to Metroline and others could easily be rostered to other routes given all operators have a staffing problem. If they're going to put something as small as ENS on the supplementary RRS they can't be expected many to use it. To be fair the western RRS, when I used it, was woefully underused off peak. I had a whole RATP Trident to myself. The eastern one from Barking was better used but part of that was savvy locals getting a free express ride rather than use a normal bus. The western RRS has always been a problem. The DD service uses such a convoluted route that no-one wants to use it. The SD route was much more popular - but of course has limited capacity. Well it would have sufficient capacity if it was more frequent, but I can't see TfL spending too much money on this one, even if drivers were somehow available.
|
|
|
Post by snoggle on Mar 15, 2019 22:49:49 GMT
Give or take 30 mins of service that is that for the class 172s on the Barking - Gospel Oak line. The last three depart for pastures West Midlands in the near future and the line is now wholly dependent on three class 378s to provide a half hourly service seven days a week. How long before it all descends into chaos I wonder?
The 710s have been out and about on the WCML on overnight runs plus a couple of daytime return trips on the GOBLIN. No signs or whispers of any sort of breakthrough with the trains. Many of the trips end up finishing much earlier than the available paths allow for and we have not yet seen the scheduled 4 round trips from Willesden to Barking and back run on any weekday so far. They usually only manage two - do the people who are driving them only work half days or something?
There is a suggestion on Railforums UK that a fourth unit will be converted to 4 car length. Quite where they've found the train from I have no idea. Seems late in the day to be doing this.
|
|
|
Post by capitalomnibus on Mar 16, 2019 0:53:24 GMT
It was confirmed earlier this week that buses would be run due to uncertainty of the delivery of the new trains.
It would start from Monday 18th March, a 7 day a week contract to run supplementary buses on the Gospel Oak to Barking line. Trains are running every 30 minutes – buses will supplement the service between Walthamstow Central and Leytonstone, calling at Midland Road and Leytonstone High Road. Buses will run in service to Leytonstone Station – a useful connection to the Central Line. If the train service is disrupted – then Overground will buses to run the full route between Walthamstow and Barking – using the usual route T. Buses would be parked at Edmonton ready to assist if this is the case.
It would be UL7, but ibus would not be ready this week, so buses would not show on LVF etc. To start off, Arriva would be running 4 buses on this service and EnsignBus would provide 4 standby buses in case of emergency.
First bus from Leytonstone bus station towards Walthamstow departs 06:23 running a 30 minute service. First bus in opposite direction towards Leytonstone at Walthamstow Central departs 07:25. Buses would run up until midnight. The service would be run from [EC] Edmonton garage
The second section would be between Finsbury Park and Gospel Oak, calling at Crouch Hill (Hornsey Road) and Upper Holloway. Buses will serve Archway on the outward journey. From next week buses will extend to Hampstead Heath with single deck buses which will serve Gospel Oak more directly. If the train service is disrupted – then Overground will require the full route between Seven Sisters and Gospel Oak – using the usual route J. Buses parked at Finsbury Park ready to assist if this is the case.
It would be UL8, but ibus would not be ready this week, so buses would not show on LVF etc. To start off, Arriva would be running 8 buses on this service Sullivan Buses were due to provide standby for the first week, but have been unable to cover.
First bus from Highgate Road toward Finsbury Park is 06:35 running a 30 minute service. First bus from Finsbury Park is 06:43 and buses running up to midnight. This service would be run from [WN] Wood Green garage.
|
|
|
Post by capitalomnibus on Mar 16, 2019 0:57:48 GMT
Possible I guess. I had vaguely pondered for a second or two where the buses might come from but nothing sprang to mind other than rusting Cadets sat at Edmonton garage. Still begs the question where the drivers will come from as I assume some ex393 will transfer to Metroline and others could easily be rostered to other routes given all operators have a staffing problem. If they're going to put something as small as ENS on the supplementary RRS they can't be expected many to use it. To be fair the western RRS, when I used it, was woefully underused off peak. I had a whole RATP Trident to myself. The eastern one from Barking was better used but part of that was savvy locals getting a free express ride rather than use a normal bus. Drivers would be overtime, rest day workings, may get one or two "dedicated" drivers. Ex393 drivers have been accounted for, the buses from the 393 would eventually be used.
|
|
|
Post by zebedee104 on Mar 16, 2019 12:18:51 GMT
East end replacement is predictably carrying around fresh air. Me and my other half were the only passengers between Leyton Midland Road and Leytonstone, with half a dozen or so having travelled from Walthamstow to Leyton Mid (and all getting off)
Prediction ... nobody will use it so TfL will withdraw it completely due to lack of demand.
|
|
|
Post by busaholic on Mar 16, 2019 14:47:30 GMT
East end replacement is predictably carrying around fresh air. Me and my other half were the only passengers between Leyton Midland Road and Leytonstone, with half a dozen or so having travelled from Walthamstow to Leyton Mid (and all getting off) Prediction ... nobody will use it so TfL will withdraw it completely due to lack of demand. Would they be allowed to withdraw it?
|
|
|
Post by zebedee104 on Mar 16, 2019 16:05:12 GMT
Why not? The train service is still running after all. It’s classed as a supplementary bus service, not a replacement.
|
|
|
Post by snoggle on Mar 16, 2019 17:39:52 GMT
East end replacement is predictably carrying around fresh air. Me and my other half were the only passengers between Leyton Midland Road and Leytonstone, with half a dozen or so having travelled from Walthamstow to Leyton Mid (and all getting off) Prediction ... nobody will use it so TfL will withdraw it completely due to lack of demand. Would they be allowed to withdraw it? They are under no obligation to provide it in the first place. In many cases where a TfL sponsored rail service is closed for works TfL just tell people to use local bus services and provide no RRS at all. Their approach varies week by week, month by month especially on RRS for Overground services. There is a little less variation with tube RRS but even there they keep changing their minds as to whether they run a service that parallels the line that is closed or whether they part parallel the route but then head to the nearest tube line that is open. Parts of East London are very prone to this. The provision of the supplemental buses is a PR measure to show "willing". If people say the trains are inadequate TfL can say "but we are running extra buses to fill in the gaps". There are no timetables online for the supplemental buses so how people are supposed to use them I don't know. I tend to agree with the OP that these supplemental services won't last very long. I certainly don't see stand-by buses being paid for for weeks and weeks. They *may* remain in the peaks if they are used but off peak they'll be dead and TfL will argue they haven't got the money. The biggest problem they will have is if the 30 min rail service remains overwhelmed with passengers with people being left behind in the rush hour. That may force their hand to do something different but it may simply be that they'll wait to see if people change their route to work if faced with being unable to get on overcrowded, low frequency rail services. In a lot of cases people may be able to go to different railheads or simply stay on the North London Line and change at Highbury or Stratford to reach places like Walthamstow and Leyton / Leytonstone. Their journeys may well be slower and horrendously overcrowded but they remain possible and more frequent than a half hourly train service.
|
|
|
Post by busaholic on Mar 16, 2019 18:33:46 GMT
Would they be allowed to withdraw it? They are under no obligation to provide it in the first place. In many cases where a TfL sponsored rail service is closed for works TfL just tell people to use local bus services and provide no RRS at all. Their approach varies week by week, month by month especially on RRS for Overground services. There is a little less variation with tube RRS but even there they keep changing their minds as to whether they run a service that parallels the line that is closed or whether they part parallel the route but then head to the nearest tube line that is open. Parts of East London are very prone to this. The provision of the supplemental buses is a PR measure to show "willing". If people say the trains are inadequate TfL can say "but we are running extra buses to fill in the gaps". There are no timetables online for the supplemental buses so how people are supposed to use them I don't know. I tend to agree with the OP that these supplemental services won't last very long. I certainly don't see stand-by buses being paid for for weeks and weeks. They *may* remain in the peaks if they are used but off peak they'll be dead and TfL will argue they haven't got the money. The biggest problem they will have is if the 30 min rail service remains overwhelmed with passengers with people being left behind in the rush hour. That may force their hand to do something different but it may simply be that they'll wait to see if people change their route to work if faced with being unable to get on overcrowded, low frequency rail services. In a lot of cases people may be able to go to different railheads or simply stay on the North London Line and change at Highbury or Stratford to reach places like Walthamstow and Leyton / Leytonstone. Their journeys may well be slower and horrendously overcrowded but they remain possible and more frequent than a half hourly train service. Just as well we're 'taking back control' after March 29 so we no longer have to put up with all this
|
|
|
Post by redbus on Mar 17, 2019 0:41:26 GMT
Would they be allowed to withdraw it? They are under no obligation to provide it in the first place. In many cases where a TfL sponsored rail service is closed for works TfL just tell people to use local bus services and provide no RRS at all. Their approach varies week by week, month by month especially on RRS for Overground services. There is a little less variation with tube RRS but even there they keep changing their minds as to whether they run a service that parallels the line that is closed or whether they part parallel the route but then head to the nearest tube line that is open. Parts of East London are very prone to this. The provision of the supplemental buses is a PR measure to show "willing". If people say the trains are inadequate TfL can say "but we are running extra buses to fill in the gaps". There are no timetables online for the supplemental buses so how people are supposed to use them I don't know. I tend to agree with the OP that these supplemental services won't last very long. I certainly don't see stand-by buses being paid for for weeks and weeks. They *may* remain in the peaks if they are used but off peak they'll be dead and TfL will argue they haven't got the money. The biggest problem they will have is if the 30 min rail service remains overwhelmed with passengers with people being left behind in the rush hour. That may force their hand to do something different but it may simply be that they'll wait to see if people change their route to work if faced with being unable to get on overcrowded, low frequency rail services. In a lot of cases people may be able to go to different railheads or simply stay on the North London Line and change at Highbury or Stratford to reach places like Walthamstow and Leyton / Leytonstone. Their journeys may well be slower and horrendously overcrowded but they remain possible and more frequent than a half hourly train service. I tend to agree with all you say here. One possibility though if it is going to be months and moths before the 710s arrive, might TfL get another payment from Bombardier which would pay for the supplementary bus service?
The other problem TfL may have is 378 reliability. If there are any problems with the three 4 carriage trains on the Goblin, you'll be down to an hourly at service, so TfL may then feel they have to have a supplementary bus service or some standby buses for this eventuality.
|
|
|
Post by snoggle on Mar 17, 2019 12:46:10 GMT
I tend to agree with all you say here. One possibility though if it is going to be months and moths before the 710s arrive, might TfL get another payment from Bombardier which would pay for the supplementary bus service?
The other problem TfL may have is 378 reliability. If there are any problems with the three 4 carriage trains on the Goblin, you'll be down to an hourly at service, so TfL may then feel they have to have a supplementary bus service or some standby buses for this eventuality. I think we can take it as red that we are talking about many more months. The last entirely speculative remark I read was August before full service with 710s but we really have no idea at all where things are with the software. Trains keep doing overnight runs and a couple of daylight trips on a few weekdays but there are no obvious breakthroughs. I know it won't happen but we really need more feedback and honesty from Bombardier and TfL about progress with the trains. Forever putting out spin does no one any favours. It's evident the 378 fleet is already struggling. I take your point about the stand-by buses. They would be needed if there was a severe unit failure as you say. I just wonder why you need buses stationed in London garages as suggested rather than just rely on Ensign to mobilise from Purfleet.
|
|
|
Post by richard on Mar 18, 2019 0:43:02 GMT
I saw two Ts on LO-J earlier they both had no passenger's wich is not surprising one was from WN the other was from E they should really run them when there is major disruption in my opinion
|
|
|
Post by zebedee104 on Mar 18, 2019 8:14:32 GMT
Again as someone who lives not five minutes from Leyton Midland Road and who uses the GOB regularly, do you not think halving the frequency constitutes major disruption?
The problem is the east end supplementary service does absolutely nothing of use. The only new link created by this is a half hourly bus service between Leyton Midland Road and Leytonstone High Road. Every other combination of potential journeys is covered off by existing bus routes.
|
|
|
Post by redbus on Mar 18, 2019 10:50:31 GMT
Anyone been on the GOBLIN line today? How is it coping on the 1/2 hourly service?
|
|