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Post by ADH45258 on Mar 10, 2021 21:09:06 GMT
Is my reading of that correct that the 302 will no longer be extended to OOC as part of the new plans? (Is that to do with changed infrastructure?) It seems that the 226 split has replaced that proposal |
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Post by ADH45258 on Mar 10, 2021 21:24:22 GMT
Some of these ideas are interesting - I think the proposed new route would provide a useful link via Park Royal, however is very short by only going to Hanger Lane, and might be more useful attached to an existing route, e.g. extending the 283 from East Acton with a double run to Old Oak Common. The 487 extension is also an interesting link, though I think the section via Kensal Canalside might be more useful as a through route, by rerouteing/extending something in the Ladbroke Grove area. A bus service at Hythe Road might also be useful depending on when developments will take place. Regarding route 7, the proposals seem to ignore the low bridge near East Acton, which prevents DDs from serving this section. A better alternative might be to extend the 72 or 283 instead, perhaps with the 7 rerouted towards Old Oak Common via Willesden Junction (in place of the 487 change), plus a DD conversion on route 70. However, most of TFL's proposals in this strategy are based on the network in 2038, so I except a future consultation could be quite different at the time |
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Post by vjaska on Mar 10, 2021 23:34:48 GMT
Some of these ideas are interesting - I think the proposed new route would provide a useful link via Park Royal, however is very short by only going to Hanger Lane, and might be more useful attached to an existing route, e.g. extending the 283 from East Acton with a double run to Old Oak Common. The 487 extension is also an interesting link, though I think the section via Kensal Canalside might be more useful as a through route, by rerouteing/extending something in the Ladbroke Grove area. A bus service at Hythe Road might also be useful depending on when developments will take place. Regarding route 7, the proposals seem to ignore the low bridge near East Acton, which prevents DDs from serving this section. A better alternative might be to extend the 72 or 283 instead, perhaps with the 7 rerouted towards Old Oak Common via Willesden Junction (in place of the 487 change), plus a DD conversion on route 70. However, most of TFL's proposals in this strategy are based on the network in 2038, so I except a future consultation could be quite different at the time Regarding the 7, the proposal hasn’t ignored the low bridges because if you compare the map in the development paper to Google Maps, you can see where the new road meets the existing one and it’s before the bridges meaning the 7 wouldn’t encounter the bridges at all |
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Post by routew15 on Mar 11, 2021 0:45:50 GMT
Regarding route 7, the proposals seem to ignore the low bridge near East Acton, which prevents DDs from serving this section. A better alternative might be to extend the 72 or 283 instead, perhaps with the 7 rerouted towards Old Oak Common via Willesden Junction (in place of the 487 change), plus a DD conversion on route 70. HS2 works include improved clearance for the Great Western Main Line bridge and demolition of the Acton-Northolt Line bridge (expected reconstruction of the latter), which in turn would allow DD buses. The bridge to the DfTs IEP depot is not included (clearance appears to be reasonable). |
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Post by vjaska on Mar 11, 2021 1:53:54 GMT
Regarding route 7, the proposals seem to ignore the low bridge near East Acton, which prevents DDs from serving this section. A better alternative might be to extend the 72 or 283 instead, perhaps with the 7 rerouted towards Old Oak Common via Willesden Junction (in place of the 487 change), plus a DD conversion on route 70. HS2 works include improved clearance for the Great Western Main Line bridge and demolition of the Acton-Northolt Line bridge (expected reconstruction of the latter), which in turn would allow DD buses. The bridge to the DfTs IEP depot is not included (clearance appears to be reasonable). So I take it the three bridges in the middle of Old Oak Common Lane will be modified or demolished given they are the low bridges with the Central Line bridge at East Acton remaining as it is given it's clearance isn't an issue? The map in the development paper suggests the 7 won't come into contact with any of the low bridges in any case. |
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Post by COBO on Mar 11, 2021 3:32:05 GMT
Double deck operation for the 487 at last. Thank you 🙏🏾 TfL and a 24 hour service to bonus, I wonder how long I would have wait until DDs show up on the 487 next tender or the next several tenders in the future.
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Post by southlondonbus on Mar 11, 2021 7:48:36 GMT
Double deck operation for the 487 at last. Thank you 🙏🏾 TfL and a 24 hour service to bonus, I wonder how long I would have wait until DDs show up on the 487 next tender or the next several tenders in the future. With several DDs coming spare over the next year (X140, 125 part LT allocation on the 17 plus potential reductions to the 30, 43 so far) could see it happening at some point if new homes cant be found for all the hybrid DDs. What does the 487 currently use? What age is the current SDs as they could be redeployed to something like the 316 on re tender. |
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Post by COBO on Mar 11, 2021 7:51:39 GMT
Double deck operation for the 487 at last. Thank you 🙏🏾 TfL and a 24 hour service to bonus, I wonder how long I would have wait until DDs show up on the 487 next tender or the next several tenders in the future. With several DDs coming spare over the next year (X140, 125 part LT allocation on the 17 plus potential reductions to the 30, 43 so far) could see it happening at some point if new homes cant be found for all the hybrid DDs. What does the 487 currently use? What age is the current SDs as they could be redeployed to something like the 316 on re tender. 08 / 58 reg ex First DEs are currently allocated to the 487. I think that they might be too old for 316 and the wrong Euro. |
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Post by routew15 on Mar 11, 2021 8:58:38 GMT
HS2 works include improved clearance for the Great Western Main Line bridge and demolition of the Acton-Northolt Line bridge (expected reconstruction of the latter), which in turn would allow DD buses. The bridge to the DfTs IEP depot is not included (clearance appears to be reasonable). So I take it the three bridges in the middle of Old Oak Common Lane will be modified or demolished given they are the low bridges with the Central Line bridge at East Acton remaining as it is given it's clearance isn't an issue? The map in the development paper suggests the 7 won't come into contact with any of the low bridges in any case. Yes as they stand in the plans HS2 works extend to the low bridges on Old Oak Common Lane (the extent of the works end before the DfTs bridge at Hitachi North Pole TMC). No issues with the Central Line bridge clearance on Old Oak Common Lane. My understanding from the development papers was that the plans for the 7 to serve Scrubs Lane have been dropped as the Cargiant area of the development (Old Oak North) have not been successfully acquired at present. It appears as though the more modest plans will be taking place instead with the 7 no longer serving the terminus at Brunel Road but continuing up Old Oak Common Lane to serve OOC HS2 Station. |
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Post by evergreenadam on Mar 11, 2021 9:17:03 GMT
Double deck operation for the 487 at last. Thank you 🙏🏾 TfL and a 24 hour service to bonus, I wonder how long I would have wait until DDs show up on the 487 next tender or the next several tenders in the future. Is the 487 often overloaded at present? |
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Post by COBO on Mar 11, 2021 9:17:38 GMT
Double deck operation for the 487 at last. Thank you 🙏🏾 TfL and a 24 hour service to bonus, I wonder how long I would have wait until DDs show up on the 487 next tender or the next several tenders in the future. Is the 487 often overloaded at present? Yes. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Mar 11, 2021 9:46:48 GMT
With several DDs coming spare over the next year (X140, 125 part LT allocation on the 17 plus potential reductions to the 30, 43 so far) could see it happening at some point if new homes cant be found for all the hybrid DDs. What does the 487 currently use? What age is the current SDs as they could be redeployed to something like the 316 on re tender. 08 / 58 reg ex First DEs are currently allocated to the 487. I think that they might be too old for 316 and the wrong Euro. Definitely too old. I think the ones purchased for it have officially be re allocated to one of the U routes as they were too long. |
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Post by busman on Mar 11, 2021 10:26:46 GMT
I find these papers interesting to understand how TfL think the bus network might look like in the long term, but I wouldn’t get too excited about the ideas in this paper just yet. HS2 at OOC is a minimum of 9 years away and we all know that infrastructure projects have a habit of over-running. A double deck all night 487 is a long long way off.
Between now and the 2030’s other things may happen that make these ideas impractical. To give a direct example, in the SE London bus network dev papers there was an idea to extend the 129 through Convoys Wharf. Since that paper, the Bermondsey redevelopment has been massively delayed and there are more tangible plans to send the 129 to Lewisham instead.
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Post by wirewiper on Mar 11, 2021 11:08:46 GMT
Is the 487 often overloaded at present? Yes. This is an illustration of just how much demand for bus travel has mushroomed since its low point in the early 1980s. When I first knew the 187 (which in those days ran from South Harrow to Hampstead Heath) the South Harrow section was half-hourly and the whole route was half-hourly on Saturdays, but loadings were generally light. Only the Harlesden to Queens Park section seemed to carry anything like appreciable loadings. For it now to have packed buses on a 12-minute frequency is quite incredible. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2021 18:47:40 GMT
This is an illustration of just how much demand for bus travel has mushroomed since its low point in the early 1980s. When I first knew the 187 (which in those days ran from South Harrow to Hampstead Heath) the South Harrow section was half-hourly and the whole route was half-hourly on Saturdays, but loadings were generally light. Only the Harlesden to Queens Park section seemed to carry anything like appreciable loadings. For it now to have packed buses on a 12-minute frequency is quite incredible. It’s a fascinating area. Look at what the old E4 was. An hourly M-S service, no evening service. The 440 / 218 / 272 which now serve the old E4 routes are a vast improvement, and the 440 looks set to become high frequency. The 440 has done well with its extension to Wembley, it gets very busy. Perhaps the planners will include a new bus garage to replace RP. It does look likely that space will become housing long term. |
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