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Post by snoggle on Mar 19, 2016 19:17:23 GMT
Not seen these before. Looks like TfL have decided to publish some more info about areas where the bus network may need to develop to serve new development areas. tfl.gov.uk/corporate/publications-and-reports/bus-network-development-papersThey cover Colindale, Battersea Nine Elms, South Newham and South Tower Hamlets. Not looked at any of them yet but interesting they have emerged.  |
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Post by danorak on Mar 19, 2016 20:31:39 GMT
Good spot! Won't spoil the fun but on a quick scan, there's some intriguing ideas in there.
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Post by Nathan on Mar 19, 2016 20:46:29 GMT
From the 'Future bus demand in the Vauxhall-Nine Elms-Battersea opportunity area' PDF document dated July 2013. This is one of the proposed ideas given in the document:
"Route 417 will be withdrawn from Clapham Old Town and extended to Waterloo via
Nine Elms Lane and route 452 will be extended to Vauxhall from Wandsworth Road
terminus."
If the former actually went through then the 77 could have been cut back to Vauxhall, I think. Reason being is that the Vauxhall-Waterloo section would be over-bussed slightly.
There are some other interesting change proposals in the other documents. Some of which give some light into how the ideas of recent consultations came about.
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Post by M1104 on Mar 19, 2016 20:54:50 GMT
From the 'Future bus demand in the Vauxhall-Nine Elms-Battersea opportunity area' PDF document dated July 2013. This is one of the proposed ideas given in the document: "Route 417 will be withdrawn from Clapham Old Town and extended to Waterloo via Nine Elms Lane and route 452 will be extended to Vauxhall from Wandsworth Road terminus." If the former actually went through then the 77 could have been cut back to Vauxhall, I think. Reason being is that the Vauxhall-Waterloo section would be over-bussed slightly. There are some other interesting change proposals in the other documents. Some of which give some light into how the ideas of recent consultations came about. Considering that the 77 serves Saint Thomas's Hospital my guess is the Waterloo terminus would have been retained, it being a direct link from the Wandsworth Road and Clapham Junction areas. It also parallels railway services between Waterloo, Vauxhall and Clapham Junction which no other bus route does between those three points. The 417 would have been ideal being extended to Clapham Junction, perhaps then reducing passenger interchanges at Clapham Common as well as a direct link between Kings Avenue/Clapham Park and Clapham Junction. |
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Post by snoggle on Mar 19, 2016 21:05:14 GMT
Good spot! Won't spoil the fun but on a quick scan, there's some intriguing ideas in there. Yes and the new poster on the forum who created a new route idea between Finchley and Colindale was spot on the money. I'm also pleased that one idea I had about extending beyond Colindale ASDA via an industrial estate and "narrow road" seems to be likely to be taken forward at some point. Slightly disappointing that the 330 extension to Canary Wharf was reconsidered again recently but didn't feature in the Isle of Dogs plans.  Looked to be very expensive but it was doing part of what the revised 135 will do. |
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Post by Nathan on Mar 19, 2016 21:13:52 GMT
From the 'Future bus demand in the Vauxhall-Nine Elms-Battersea opportunity area' PDF document dated July 2013. This is one of the proposed ideas given in the document: "Route 417 will be withdrawn from Clapham Old Town and extended to Waterloo via Nine Elms Lane and route 452 will be extended to Vauxhall from Wandsworth Road terminus." If the former actually went through then the 77 could have been cut back to Vauxhall, I think. Reason being is that the Vauxhall-Waterloo section would be over-bussed slightly. There are some other interesting change proposals in the other documents. Some of which give some light into how the ideas of recent consultations came about. Considering that the 77 serves Saint Thomas's Hospital my guess is the Waterloo terminus would have been retained, it being a direct link from the Wandsworth Road and Clapham Junction areas. It also parallels railway services between Waterloo, Vauxhall and Clapham Junction which no other bus route does between those three points. The 417 would have been ideal being extended to Clapham Junction, perhaps then reducing passenger interchanges at Clapham Common as well as a direct link between Kings Avenue/Clapham Park and Clapham Junction. Ah yes, you raise a good point about the 77 running parallel with the National Rail corridor. And you're correct about the 417 routing. There is a map in the document showing the proposed extension running along the routes you mentioned. Who knows, maybe there will be a consultation at some point regarding this. The leftover T's on the 341 could be utilized in the near future...but I think I'm getting ahead of myself a little. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Mar 19, 2016 22:34:19 GMT
Interestingly the 417 would provide capacity that the diverted 436 would have provided. There's no mention of the 436's proposal.
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Post by snoggle on Mar 19, 2016 22:54:12 GMT
Interestingly the 417 would provide capacity that the diverted 436 would have provided. There's no mention of the 436's proposal. And the conclusion is? Yep as a short term palliative TfL have decided the cheapest way to relieve Nine Elms in the short term is diverting the 436. I imagine it's rather cheaper than the 417 extension. What I find interesting, from a skim read, is the assumed build up in bus demand in an area which is in walking distance to reach the tube or rail services at Vauxhall (and the future Nine Elms Northern Line station). |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2016 7:20:00 GMT
I've just decided to look at the Newham plans. Seems quite good in places. The 104 changes now make more sence rather than the Silvertown changes, and now I see the potential. It's just a shame it will take a long way round to south of the river. Another route that sounds a good change is route 474, with the extension of route 330 will put new links into Custom House Crossrail. The extension of route 325 to ABP sounds sensible enough.
I might alter some of the changes a little not changing the plans for route 474 to be rerouted via Custom House, then making route 325 go to Canning Town via route 241 and route 241 rerouting route 241 between Custom House and Canning Town via the proposed 330 bus route. I don't know what route will serve ABP. But if all the changes go ahead as planned, I would extend route 323 ABP via route 300 to Prince Regent and then ABP (see below why).
The only change I can't get my head is the change to route 300. A new route between Manor Park and Stratford sounds good. Even the alternative via Cann Hall Road sounds good, and I mentioned a route between Cann Hall Road and Stratford recently. However, what is the point of extending route 300 from East Ham up to Manor Park with no mention about passenger increases and little bus capacity on this section. Also, how can they cut the Prince Regent to Canning Town with no apparent replacement. It is litteraly the only route south of Newham Hospital on Prince Regent Lane to Barking Road. This is actually one of my only bus journeys I can do with only one bus! Also, Barking Road would loose a bus link to Beckton, another journey I do so it would be inconvenient to me. I can't get over the planned stupidness of this change!!!!
Now thinking about it though, part of the idea of extending route 300 was to continue a link between High Street South and North into Stratford. I still think route 300 is the wrong route. Even though I haven't posted it yet, I have an idea of a route from High Street South by side roads up to Stratford! I will post it soon. You could even extend route 104B. (This paragraph was an edit)
I must say though it was an interesting document so thank you for sharing it!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2016 7:43:41 GMT
I've now just look at the Tower Hamlets changes. I assumed most of the changes on their were being consulted already. However, there were still a few suprizes on there.
It's interesting that route 330 forms on both the Newham and Tower Hamlets review with 2 completely different extensions to choose from. There gonna need to make up their mind.
It's also good to know they originally proposed route 277 to go up Sprintift Avenue, I knew this was better from when I saw the changes. If we're lucky, they might revert to this.
Route 115 going via Whitechapel sounds like a very good new link. It might make get more long distance travellers from.
The D6 being extended to Whitechapel sounds alright. It would make Vallance Road feel more like Whitechapel. It interesting though on the document they made it sound like the route no longer going to Hackney was an issue. I don't see as an issue anyway, many route go to Hackney Central (routes 106, 254 and 277), and if it was an issue, I would reroute route 106 to terminate at Mile End via route D6.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2016 10:16:08 GMT
Reading the Newham one I think it would be a bit of a over kill running three routes from Custom House to Canning Town Via Keir Hardie - most buses on the 241 /147 run very light through this area. Also I am unsure of the demand for the mini bus stand and route extensions around Custom House Station again is there that much demand.
I don't think the users of route 474 in the West Silvertown would be too impressed losing the route I know replacements have been suggested but still.
I wonder if double decking the 325 would remove the need for 4 buses on route 678 as most of the route is duplicated by the 325.
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Post by snoggle on Mar 20, 2016 10:24:31 GMT
Reading the Newham one I think it would be a bit of a over kill running three routes from Custom House to Canning Town Via Keir Hardie - most buses on the 241 /147 run very light through this area. Also I am unsure of the demand for the mini bus stand and route extensions around Custom House Station again is there that much demand. I don't think the users of route 474 in the West Silvertown would be too impressed losing the route I know replacements have been suggested but still. I wonder if double decking the 325 would remove the need for 4 buses on route 678 as most of the route is duplicated by the 325. I imagine TfL are expecting Crossrail at Custom House to change the local demand focus with people wanting access to that line. You can start drawing conclusions about what is going to happen elsewhere in London where there is just one Crossrail station in a particular area. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2016 10:36:19 GMT
Reading the Newham one I think it would be a bit of a over kill running three routes from Custom House to Canning Town Via Keir Hardie - most buses on the 241 /147 run very light through this area. Also I am unsure of the demand for the mini bus stand and route extensions around Custom House Station again is there that much demand. I don't think the users of route 474 in the West Silvertown would be too impressed losing the route I know replacements have been suggested but still. I wonder if double decking the 325 would remove the need for 4 buses on route 678 as most of the route is duplicated by the 325. It's probably one of the easiest ways to connect North Woolwich to Crossrail. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2016 12:35:13 GMT
Reading the Newham one I think it would be a bit of a over kill running three routes from Custom House to Canning Town Via Keir Hardie - most buses on the 241 /147 run very light through this area. Also I am unsure of the demand for the mini bus stand and route extensions around Custom House Station again is there that much demand. I don't think the users of route 474 in the West Silvertown would be too impressed losing the route I know replacements have been suggested but still. I wonder if double decking the 325 would remove the need for 4 buses on route 678 as most of the route is duplicated by the 325. It's probably one of the easiest ways to connect North Woolwich to Crossrail. I'd rather extended the rather short 323 from Canning Town to North Woolwich (Report suggests not the best idea as hard to convert to DD but still think it would manage) I would run via Victoria Dock Road direct instead of Keir Hardie - Parking is another reason I am unsure about 3 routes running through the estate) |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2016 13:12:56 GMT
It's probably one of the easiest ways to connect North Woolwich to Crossrail. I'd rather extended the rather short 323 from Canning Town to North Woolwich (Report suggests not the best idea as hard to convert to DD but still think it would manage) I would run via Victoria Dock Road direct instead of Keir Hardie - Parking is another reason I am unsure about 3 routes running through the estate) Personally, if the plans go exactly as they are, I would extend route 323 to Prince Regent / AVP to replace route 300. Personally, I like the sound of route 474 going via this routing, but I see what your getting at. I've been through the estate 2 times, once using route 541 and it was a bit busy, and the other time using a 241 during Wednesday off-peak, and it was very empty. Aother one of my alters  , we could change route 474 to what is proposed, while we curtail route 147 at Custom House and extend route 104B to Canning Town. We could even cut things at Kier Hardie Estate further and swap the routings of routes 241 and 325, so route 241 terminates at AVP while route 325 goes to Canning Town. This means routes through there will operate at a lower frequency, while route 325 is single deck making it easier for this route to get through the estate. I can see Custom House becoming like Canning Town. Because there will be a Crossrail station, they are making it so you can access the station from North, South, East, West, North East, everywhere... Does anyone know where the changes are going to be introduced? |
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Looked to be very expensive but it was doing part of what the revised 135 will do.
, we could change route 474 to what is proposed, while we curtail route 147 at Custom House and extend route 104B to Canning Town. We could even cut things at Kier Hardie Estate further and swap the routings of routes 241 and 325, so route 241 terminates at AVP while route 325 goes to Canning Town. This means routes through there will operate at a lower frequency, while route 325 is single deck making it easier for this route to get through the estate.