Routes 25 and 425

[snoggle]

Sept 3, 2016 15:06:30 GMT snowman said:

You are correct, Jubilee line extension changes were in different era. No internet consultations.
Of course the Greater London Authority Act 1999 didn't exist either
Sections 183 and 184 are variation and discontinuing bus network, section 189 for discontinuing non network including school routes

Under section 184 (2) (c) Any other person that TfL considers it appropriate to consult (so basically doesn't have to be the public),
just need : the Local authorities 184 (2) (a) and London Transport Users' Committee 184 (2) (b) which is a shorter list than for a variation under section 183. The only stipulation is alternative transport should be provided (presumably Elizabeth line could be an alternative) as it is provided by TfL or its subsidiaries (or under an LSP, but that isn't relevant here)

So basically TfL will find it easier to consult to discontinue routes than vary them, as per the 1999 Act.

I'm sure that's all legally accurate but it's not the point really. Of course TfL has powers but it can't wield them in inappropriate ways. Since the legislation was drawn up a great deal has happened in terms of what might be called "case law" plus loads of public commitments have been made to the London Assembly, to other London politicians and even boring idiots like me that get invited to City Hall for "Bus Summits" and who hear what senior TfL people say to a room of interested persons. It is completely clear to me that TfL *has* to consult, it has said it *will* consult and that the London Assembly is completely clear that consultation will be expected. There are also commitments made by the previous Mayor in written answers. They're "on the record" and not especially controversial on things like bus route consultation so much harder to somehow "repudiate" or airily wave away. I've never seen TfL cite the GLA Act clauses as justification for making any changes on the bus network and I think there'll be "a snowstorm in hell" before they are allowed to do so. There may very well be a piece of internal paperwork inside TfL that references those clauses so there is an audit trail back to the powers to ensure a "sign off" of all relevant changes but that's not something the public will ever see. Clause 183 is referenced on each web consultation that TfL undertake on bus services and that's perfectly understandable.

[enviroPB]

Riddle me this: if the 25 has now had its timetable rebuffed after the end of CS2 roadworks, then why are the shorts still going to Mile End? As far as I'm aware, the 25 isn't blighted by any roadworks in the City up to Holborn Circus. I refuse to believe Mile End shorts are still in progress due to the temporary lights at Green Street.

[smoothcriminal]

So consultation is up and 425 is proposed to be extended and run to Ilford with the mile end 25 shorts abolished.

[Deleted]

Might not be the last consultation you see. According to what I got told by someone in the loop. TfL are already in the early stages of discussion with go-ahead to yet again mess with the el1/2 sometime next year.

El1 - Barking Riverside to Stratford.
El2 - Dagenham Dock to Romford.

[john]

Nov 28, 2016 6:57:35 GMT @chazaroo said:

Might not be the last consultation you see. According to what I got told by someone in the loop. TfL are already in the early stages of discussion with go-ahead to yet again mess with the el1/2 sometime next year.

El1 - Barking Riverside to Stratford.
El2 - Dagenham Dock to Romford.

Well that would be both routes well and truly stuffed up then. Granted the EL2 would only suffer at rush hour (Rush Green Road is a nightmare!!) But the EL1 would be ruined!!

[joefrombow]

EL2 Not so bad a Idea to be fair but yes I agree EL1 to Stratford crazy idea ilford lane is bad enough ! As for the EL3/387 I've always thought that a bit of a short dead route don't see why it's getting upgraded if you like to EL status maybe do something with that not that there is much you could do without completely changing the route ?

[enviroPB]

Jun 18, 2016 3:36:18 GMT enviroPB said:
Ahhh it's time! At the start of May when I was searching for River Road's garage, had a lovely chat to a 387 driver on a whole manner of topics, bus related of course Anyways I've waited this long to not sound like a looney, but here goes:

-the driver expressed concerns about the 387 being retained with BK. This is with its 11reg Enviro400s and spare deckers; not least new MMCs that were being delivered at the time of the conversation
-sometime in the near future, the EL3 will be extended to Marks Gate; and routes 296 & 396 will be restructured to give a "more regular service" to Ilford Broadway.

Now call me crazy all you want; but I knew about the consultation changes before it came to air. Ridicule my source if you want, but the bus driver was really friendly and though I prodded him initially, he was more than happy to give me insider info and then some! He figured he let too much slip though; so when I started to ask questions relating to Marks Gate changes with the EL3, he kicked me off the bus!! To be fair though I was meant to get off 3 stops prior but the gossip was too good haha



I'll just sit here and wait quietly. *hums cheerfuly*

[snoggle]

Nov 28, 2016 6:57:35 GMT @chazaroo said:

Might not be the last consultation you see. According to what I got told by someone in the loop. TfL are already in the early stages of discussion with go-ahead to yet again mess with the el1/2 sometime next year.

El1 - Barking Riverside to Stratford.
El2 - Dagenham Dock to Romford.

At a guess these are NHS and Crossrail related changes to try to give new links from Barking Riverside in advance of the GOBLIN extension being constructed and opened in a few years time.

[warton]

This extention must be close to happening, as I've just seen the 425 bus tiles on bus stops for the extended section of the route.

[snowman]

May 3, 2017 11:38:13 GMT warton said:

This extention must be close to happening, as I've just seen the 425 bus tiles on bus stops for the extended section of the route.

This Saturday was a revised target date, but doesn't appear to be on latest bus changes document on TFL website.

Either it has been deferred again, or TFL is in right hand not talking to left hand mode.

[enviroPB]

May 3, 2017 12:00:35 GMT snowman said:

May 3, 2017 11:38:13 GMT warton said:

This extention must be close to happening, as I've just seen the 425 bus tiles on bus stops for the extended section of the route.

This Saturday was a revised target date, but doesn't appear to be on latest bus changes document on TFL website.

Either it has been deferred again, or TFL is in right hand not talking to left hand mode.

I did spot the 425 tiles on the shared Romford Road section with the 308 last night.....but then again TfL think the 101 is 24 hours at Wanstead judging from the tiles and this error has been there for many months now.

So make of it what you will.

[Eastlondoner62]

Here's a pic of one at Hainault Street: i.imgur.com/Y6nWfdX.jpg

No timetables at all, so either they've forgotten to place them or one hasn't been worked out as someone thinks the changes have been deferred.

[Gellico]

May 3, 2017 13:34:16 GMT Eastlondoner62 said:

Here's a pic of one at Hainault Street: i.imgur.com/Y6nWfdX.jpg

No timetables at all, so either they've forgotten to place them or one hasn't been worked out as someone thinks the changes have been deferred.

Sounds similar to the R7 extension - only tiles at some stops and that's it, no timetables or notices

[redbus]

May 3, 2017 16:30:08 GMT Gellico said:

May 3, 2017 13:34:16 GMT Eastlondoner62 said:

Here's a pic of one at Hainault Street: i.imgur.com/Y6nWfdX.jpg

No timetables at all, so either they've forgotten to place them or one hasn't been worked out as someone thinks the changes have been deferred.

Sounds similar to the R7 extension - only tiles at some stops and that's it, no timetables or notices

Interesting, I would have expected the changes to go ahead at the same time as the other central London changes expected in June.

[Deleted]

Back onto the EL topic, I've heard that TFL are waiting for new roads to be built at Barking Riverside before extending EL1 and EL3 further into The Reach.
Which reminds me, did anyone travel on those peak hours 387 journeys to Creekmouth? I did a few times and also walked the entire Renwick Rd / River Rd " tongue", it was CREEPY!
Even in daylight it made me feel edgy , also after doing the walk my clothes had a layer of dust over them.
EL3 to Marks Gate? Wouldn't that have a real detrimental effect on the 362. It's a fairly low used route as it is and with a quicker alternative to King George Hospital, that could kill it.
Can anyone like me, see what a useful extension 62 from Marks Gate to Collier Row would be? Just five minutes further but providing a link between Rose Lane estate and the shops. It could stand along with the 252 near the roundabout.