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Post by Alex on Dec 14, 2016 1:09:42 GMT
Here's another one....I have checked the route record and cannot find it, but seen this used loads of times: What is the St. James Street turn on the 158 (coming from Stratford)? I can find one on the route record (Ian Armstrong link) coming from Chingford Mount but not the other way. Would it serve the outside of the station itself or head round via the roundabout (at the north end of Markhouse Road)? Having walked the area, the back streets around it and conditions seem a bit unfitting for a bus to head around them.......
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Post by enviroPB on Dec 14, 2016 4:20:52 GMT
Here's another one....I have checked the route record and cannot find it, but seen this used loads of times: What is the St. James Street turn on the 158 (coming from Stratford)? I can find one on the route record (Ian Armstrong link) coming from Chingford Mount but not the other way. Would it serve the outside of the station itself or head round via the roundabout (at the north end of Markhouse Road)? Having walked the area, the back streets around it and conditions seem a bit unfitting for a bus to head around them....... That turn is just circumnavigating the roundabout at South Grove. Before there were roadworks to improve the infrastructure; the roundbout was smaller with a small gap in-between South Grove & Markhouse Road where buses used to stand (unofficially). I've seen more 58s stand there than 158s in the years I used to frequent St James Street in particular but I'm getting off topic. 158 from Chingford Mount: terminate at St James Street station; ahead St James Street, circumnavigate to St James Street to line of route. 158 from Stratford: terminate at Markhouse Avenue stop; ahead Markhouse Road, circumnavigate to Markhouse Road to line of route. Buses in either direction are not allowed to go to the bus forecourt for the 212 and 275; I assume due to the bad traffic on the lead up to Selborne Road. NB: Just wanted to state that under Stagecoach, the 230 was able to stand at Walthamstow, South Grove (that was the display until T won the 275). Under Arriva, the stand nor curtailment point is given; though it would be silly by both TfL & Arriva to not have St James Street on the blinds for the 230. |
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Post by DT 11 on Dec 14, 2016 5:33:56 GMT
Here's another one....I have checked the route record and cannot find it, but seen this used loads of times: What is the St. James Street turn on the 158 (coming from Stratford)? I can find one on the route record (Ian Armstrong link) coming from Chingford Mount but not the other way. Would it serve the outside of the station itself or head round via the roundabout (at the north end of Markhouse Road)? Having walked the area, the back streets around it and conditions seem a bit unfitting for a bus to head around them....... That turn is just circumnavigating the roundabout at South Grove. Before there were roadworks to improve the infrastructure; the roundbout was smaller with a small gap in-between South Grove & Markhouse Road where buses used to stand (unofficially). I've seen more 58s stand there than 158s in the years I used to frequent St James Street in particular but I'm getting off topic. 158 from Chingford Mount: terminate at St James Street station; ahead St James Street, circumnavigate to St James Street to line of route. 158 from Stratford: terminate at Markhouse Avenue stop; ahead Markhouse Road, circumnavigate to Markhouse Road to line of route. Buses in either direction are not allowed to go to the bus forecourt for the 212 and 275; I assume due to the bad traffic on the lead up to Selborne Road. NB: Just wanted to state that under Stagecoach, the 230 was able to stand at Walthamstow, South Grove (that was the display until T won the 275). Under Arriva, the stand nor curtailment point is given; though it would be silly by both TfL & Arriva to not have St James Street on the blinds for the 230.Regarding the 230 I don't think it is silly. There is really no point a 230 curtailing to St James Street when Walthamstow Central a key location where most people are going is a few stops down the road. Probably it was removed for that very reason and that TFL want the Bus Station to be served at the very least if a turn was used alternatively Whipps Cross is also a turn. It also being High Frequency a Walthamstow Central turn could benefit in some situations. When Stagecoach ran it West Green was probably the most common turn. There are just some curtailments which a Route may pass but not on the route record as official www.londonbuses.co.uk/route-records/230.pdf |
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Post by capitalomnibus on Dec 14, 2016 12:11:15 GMT
Here's another one....I have checked the route record and cannot find it, but seen this used loads of times: What is the St. James Street turn on the 158 (coming from Stratford)? I can find one on the route record (Ian Armstrong link) coming from Chingford Mount but not the other way. Would it serve the outside of the station itself or head round via the roundabout (at the north end of Markhouse Road)? Having walked the area, the back streets around it and conditions seem a bit unfitting for a bus to head around them....... That turn is just circumnavigating the roundabout at South Grove. Before there were roadworks to improve the infrastructure; the roundbout was smaller with a small gap in-between South Grove & Markhouse Road where buses used to stand (unofficially). I've seen more 58s stand there than 158s in the years I used to frequent St James Street in particular but I'm getting off topic. 158 from Chingford Mount: terminate at St James Street station; ahead St James Street, circumnavigate to St James Street to line of route. 158 from Stratford: terminate at Markhouse Avenue stop; ahead Markhouse Road, circumnavigate to Markhouse Road to line of route. Buses in either direction are not allowed to go to the bus forecourt for the 212 and 275; I assume due to the bad traffic on the lead up to Selborne Road. NB: Just wanted to state that under Stagecoach, the 230 was able to stand at Walthamstow, South Grove (that was the display until T won the 275). Under Arriva, the stand nor curtailment point is given; though it would be silly by both TfL & Arriva to not have St James Street on the blinds for the 230. I agree with you over South Grove. It was a useful turn at times when there were various road disruptions. I am not sure if it is on the blinds, no doubt it would be an official turn, but guess it would not be used as it would wipe out the Walthamstow Central QSI point with the 4 stop rule. |
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Post by enviroPB on Dec 14, 2016 13:01:48 GMT
That turn is just circumnavigating the roundabout at South Grove. Before there were roadworks to improve the infrastructure; the roundbout was smaller with a small gap in-between South Grove & Markhouse Road where buses used to stand (unofficially). I've seen more 58s stand there than 158s in the years I used to frequent St James Street in particular but I'm getting off topic. 158 from Chingford Mount: terminate at St James Street station; ahead St James Street, circumnavigate to St James Street to line of route. 158 from Stratford: terminate at Markhouse Avenue stop; ahead Markhouse Road, circumnavigate to Markhouse Road to line of route. Buses in either direction are not allowed to go to the bus forecourt for the 212 and 275; I assume due to the bad traffic on the lead up to Selborne Road. NB: Just wanted to state that under Stagecoach, the 230 was able to stand at Walthamstow, South Grove (that was the display until T won the 275). Under Arriva, the stand nor curtailment point is given; though it would be silly by both TfL & Arriva to not have St James Street on the blinds for the 230. I agree with you over South Grove. It was a useful turn at times when there were various road disruptions. I am not sure if it is on the blinds, no doubt it would be an official turn, but guess it would not be used as it would wipe out the Walthamstow Central QSI point with the 4 stop rule. I was thinking about the QSI rule when reading DT 11's response. However as you've eluded to; if traffic was diabolical on Selborne Road/Walthamstow Central then (under Stagecoach) the South Grove turn came out. Obviously to avoid the disruption in the direction of Upper Walthamstow but also to make up on lost mileage when heading to Wood Green. Then the Tridents would pop down Markhouse Road & Lea Bridge Road to T. We're heading in the past here but I am sharing my knowledge for Alex's benefit. |
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Post by Alex on Dec 14, 2016 15:18:41 GMT
We're heading in the past here but I am sharing my knowledge for Alex's benefit. No, discuss away! Very interesting stuff, and I am sure others on the forum will be reading this with interest too  |
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Post by enviroPB on Dec 14, 2016 16:54:51 GMT
We're heading in the past here but I am sharing my knowledge for Alex's benefit. No, discuss away! Very interesting stuff, and I am sure others on the forum will be reading this with interest too Cheers but I've always had the intention of not making this too east-London centric! If I'm correct you're a PD driver; what's the most interesting route you've driven in terms of turns available? I've always imagined despite (or thanks to?!) the traffic on the 177, it does pull out some lovely turns. East Greenwich, Woolwich Monk Street and Thamesmead look like good places to stand. |
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Post by Alex on Dec 14, 2016 17:44:50 GMT
If I'm correct you're a PD driver; what's the most interesting route you've driven in terms of turns available? I've always imagined despite (or thanks to?!) the traffic on the 177, it does pull out some lovely turns. East Greenwich, Woolwich Monk Street and Thamesmead look like good places to stand. No no no no  , I work on the tube but used to live about an eight minute walk from PD garage. These days (just measured on Google Maps) I am equidistant from BK and NS garages. Kept the photo of 17404 as had a soft spot for it (the last Y reg at PD, before becoming a trainer and eventually heading north to Stagecoach Hull  ) and still ask about the area as I miss it and lots has changed in a short time (the use of PD's vehicles). If you want a PD driver, particularly rostered on the 177 nickfreckle is your man  |
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Post by nickfreckle on Dec 14, 2016 23:27:29 GMT
Monk Street is an awful stand - it's where the 96's sit. Stinks of wee - so when I do 96's, I usually stand outside Pound Land instead. Unless the traffic is completely diabolical, it's actually quite unusual to get turned on 177 as there is around 20 minutes at each end to allow you to get back out on time. Thamesmead is, well, Thamesmead The boiler house turn there is only a turn. There is a stand a short way away, which is ideal to take your five minutes, but that's it. If you get a turn on 177, I've found it's been towards Peckham and at NX Sainsbury mostly - or if it's coming back the other way and you're running extremely late, they'll run you light to PD once you've got to TM. As an aside, 17404 (which is the first bus I ever drove in my life), is now wrecked in a yard in Hull somewhere. Not my picture btw. The brakes on that thing were bloody awful.  |
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Post by enviroPB on Dec 15, 2016 12:01:13 GMT
Monk Street is an awful stand - it's where the 96's sit. Stinks of wee - so when I do 96's, I usually stand outside Pound Land instead. Unless the traffic is completely diabolical, it's actually quite unusual to get turned on 177 as there is around 20 minutes at each end to allow you to get back out on time. Thamesmead is, well, Thamesmead The boiler house turn there is only a turn. There is a stand a short way away, which is ideal to take your five minutes, but that's it. If you get a turn on 177, I've found it's been towards Peckham and at NX Sainsbury mostly - or if it's coming back the other way and you're running extremely late, they'll run you light to PD once you've got to TM. As an aside, 17404 (which is the first bus I ever drove in my life), is now wrecked in a yard in Hull somewhere. Not my picture btw. The brakes on that thing were bloody awful. Is the Beresford Street stand any better?! Every time I come to Woolwich via the foot tunnel, I see the 51s, 99s and 380s stand on the main road; which I don't find ideal. If there's any problem to the road network and/or ferry services, then it gets chocka & hard for all routes to depart the stand. IIRC the 96 had its stands switched to Monk Street for similar reasoning. |
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Post by Alex on Dec 15, 2016 13:43:40 GMT
As an aside, 17404 (which is the first bus I ever drove in my life), is now wrecked in a yard in Hull somewhere. Not my picture btw. The brakes on that thing were bloody awful. Oh no    to all of that really. Such a shame to hear that when still in London it didn't seem the best looked after, and why would it go to Hull to get wrecked? Do old London buses go to the provinces to provide spare parts etc for the fleet out there? Have to admit, on the last time I rode 17404 it did seem a bit tired. Was on the 472 back from Thamesmead to Woolwich in February/March 2014 (just looked at the LVF history to double check - which ties in) and it did seem slow (but there again depends how the driver is driving it) and upstairs the windowframes were making a lot of rattling and creaking noises. Talking of those windows, it only occurred to me yesterday that the MMCs have gone back to the bonded look, not sure if that's a nod to the earlier ALX400s but it looks smarter (I think the early model Tridents looked smarter than the later ones as it is)....... Despite me knowing it as a PD bus, I did look a while back on Flickr etc, and also some old London fleet lists (the link of which I've forgotten), it did spend a lot of it's time in east London (notable periods at BW and SD) as well as a few final years at PD. Hopefully my picture (which I think was taken autumn 2013) depicts 17404 in happier times  |
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Post by nickfreckle on Dec 16, 2016 8:14:09 GMT
Is the Beresford Street stand any better?! Every time I come to Woolwich via the foot tunnel, I see the 51s, 99s and 380s stand on the main road; which I don't find ideal. If there's any problem to the road network and/or ferry services, then it gets chocka & hard for all routes to depart the stand. IIRC the 96 had its stands switched to Monk Street for similar reasoning. Beresford Street isn't too bad. At least shops and cafe are in walking distance when you have to take your break down there. If it is chocka, thankfully the 51 stand is only about 75 yards away from where you have to turn left, so using a bit of common sense and departing the stand a couple of minutes early, you're usually ok. it's getting to the stand that can make you late sometimes. I've been early at Iceland, the last stop on 51's, but by the time I've got to the stand, it's been time to go, and faced with the choice of leaving on time by going straight through, or taking the full five minutes and getting out late. it depends on if it's school kicking out time which generally decides what I do in that situation. Nowt worse than having a double road in front of you when you have to pick up school kids. |
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Post by sid on Dec 16, 2016 9:19:05 GMT
Is the Beresford Street stand any better?! Every time I come to Woolwich via the foot tunnel, I see the 51s, 99s and 380s stand on the main road; which I don't find ideal. If there's any problem to the road network and/or ferry services, then it gets chocka & hard for all routes to depart the stand. IIRC the 96 had its stands switched to Monk Street for similar reasoning. Beresford Street isn't too bad. At least shops and cafe are in walking distance when you have to take your break down there. If it is chocka, thankfully the 51 stand is only about 75 yards away from where you have to turn left, so using a bit of common sense and departing the stand a couple of minutes early, you're usually ok. it's getting to the stand that can make you late sometimes. I've been early at Iceland, the last stop on 51's, but by the time I've got to the stand, it's been time to go, and faced with the choice of leaving on time by going straight through, or taking the full five minutes and getting out late. it depends on if it's school kicking out time which generally decides what I do in that situation. Nowt worse than having a double road in front of you when you have to pick up school kids. Do you normally take your break there? I had assumed all PD drivers returned to base? |
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Post by thewintersoldier on Dec 16, 2016 9:55:22 GMT
Had an obscure one yesterday. A 29 going from Wood Green to Harringay Salisbury Road. He could select the turn on the blinds but it wasn't available on the ibus announcements. I know the said driver and he said it's because Harringay Salisbury Road isn't an official turn from Wood Green but only from Trafalgar Square. After kicking us off one stop before the Salisbury pub he then ran light down Salisbury Road and disappeared.
Same journey jones, a 232 terminating at Palmers Green, north circular road, kicks you off at Pymmes Road (towards Turnpike Lane) then runs light and turns left up via palmers green garage turns round via a roundabout and returns to normal line of route, first stop Palmerston Road. I drove the 232 for years and I used to terminate at the wrong stop then because I'd take passengers to Green Lanes so at least they could continue their journey on the 141 or the 329 if they were going onto Wood Green on Turnpike Lane! For those of you who know the route, obviously the last stop on the NCR before it turns right onto Green Lanes is not served by the 232, simply 34 and 102. But I was accidentally doing my bit for customer service for years without realising.
Gotta be good sometimes, eh?
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Post by snoggle on Dec 16, 2016 10:23:46 GMT
Had an obscure one yesterday. A 29 going from Wood Green to Harringay Salisbury Road. He could select the turn on the blinds but it wasn't available on the ibus announcements. I know the said driver and he said it's because Harringay Salisbury Road isn't an official turn from Wood Green but only from Trafalgar Square. After kicking us off one stop before the Salisbury pub he then ran light down Salisbury Road and disappeared. Same journey jones, a 232 terminating at Palmers Green, north circular road, kicks you off at Pymmes Road (towards Turnpike Lane) then runs light and turns left up via palmers green garage turns round via a roundabout and returns to normal line of route, first stop Palmerston Road. I drove the 232 for years and I used to terminate at the wrong stop then because I'd take passengers to Green Lanes so at least they could continue their journey on the 141 or the 329 if they were going onto Wood Green on Turnpike Lane! For those of you who know the route, obviously the last stop on the NCR before it turns right onto Green Lanes is not served by the 232, simply 34 and 102. But I was accidentally doing my bit for customer service for years without realising. Gotta be good sometimes, eh? The layout at the junction has been changed in recent years as have the stop locations and the routes serving them. I suspect when you were driving you stopped at entirely the right stop which allowed a more convenient interchange. Now we just have a load of old rubbish with stops far too far apart. Chucking people off at Pymmes Rd is ridiculous. Even the stop east of Green Lanes towards Silver St is much further on that it used to be meaning you can easily miss a bus if changing off a 329. You have to be a sprinter to get to the stop if a 34 or 102 is due to come across the junction heading east. In the past you just stuck your hand out as the stop was just round the corner. |
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, I work on the tube but used to live about an eight minute walk from PD garage. These days (just measured on Google Maps) I am equidistant from BK and NS garages. Kept the photo of 17404 as had a soft spot for it (the last Y reg at PD, before becoming a trainer and eventually heading north to Stagecoach Hull 
) and still ask about the area as I miss it and lots has changed in a short time (the use of PD's vehicles). If you want a PD driver, particularly rostered on the 177 
to all of that really. Such a shame to hear that when still in London it didn't seem the best looked after, and why would it go to Hull to get wrecked? Do old London buses go to the provinces to provide spare parts etc for the fleet out there? 
