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Post by Nathan on Dec 20, 2016 14:25:36 GMT
Nice long roads btwn Grove Park and Peckham , busy "feeder" and local and commuting route. Hmm...I think that the higher frequency routes would have a higher priority (e.g. 14, 25, 36). The 136 would probably struggle a little in the North Peckham area as the roads can be a little tight at times.
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Post by snoggle on Dec 20, 2016 14:27:41 GMT
In my part of London, (SW) possibilities include : 131 (tender award awaited), or maybe the 11.4m version of the VHs as used on KU services (without glass stairs) 85 (long and straight, with heavy peak loads) 267 (via Brentford which is a population growth area) Think most other routes would struggle due to a tight corner/junction Surely the 85 would struggle with long buses on some of the turns in the Putney Heath / Roehampton area?
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Post by bengady3 on Dec 20, 2016 15:05:20 GMT
Route 25(if loadings wont decrease as much after Crossrail)
Route 53(I'm not sure about Plumstead Common)
Route 29
Route 109
Route 5
Route 86
Route 149 or 279
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Post by bengady3 on Dec 20, 2016 15:06:42 GMT
In my part of London, (SW) possibilities include : 131 (tender award awaited), or maybe the 11.4m version of the VHs as used on KU services (without glass stairs) 85 (long and straight, with heavy peak loads) 267 (via Brentford which is a population growth area) Think most other routes would struggle due to a tight corner/junction Surely the 85 would struggle with long buses on some of the turns in the Putney Heath / Roehampton area? The turn from the A3 into the Alton Estate I don't think 11m buses can make it
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Post by twobellstogo on Dec 20, 2016 15:29:26 GMT
Route 53(I'm not sure about Plumstead Common) I think a few turns in the Plumstead area on route 53 would defeat a 12m tri axle bus I'm afraid. I can't think, to be honest, of any suitable route in South East London for them - either not busy enough or busy enough, but turns etc. unsuitable.
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Post by snoggle on Dec 20, 2016 15:55:06 GMT
Route 53(I'm not sure about Plumstead Common) I think a few turns in the Plumstead area on route 53 would defeat a 12m tri axle bus I'm afraid. I can't think, to be honest, of any suitable route in South East London for them - either not busy enough or busy enough, but turns etc. unsuitable. There are two obvious route candidates. First photo - RegentV207 on Flickr but seen on Chinamotorbus.com website. Second photo - mine!
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Post by astock5000 on Dec 20, 2016 15:55:17 GMT
While I don't use any TfL routes regularly enough to know which ones have capacity issues where tri-axle buses could be useful (other than a couple of more obvious routes), there are other things to consider such as the average length of passenger journeys and whether many passengers board or alight at a handful of stops on a route or if it's more spread out.
The Enviro500 is quite customisable but I would assume one built to a TfL specification would have a similar layout to conventional London buses - a forward staircase, front entrance and centre exit (this is the most common layout for Enviro500s anyway). However dwell times at stops would increase as there would be a higher number of passengers using that arrangement. Therefore the most suitable routes would be those which have high loadings but with passengers making longer journeys resulting in few busy stops.
Personally while it would be interesting to see such buses in London I'm not sure I'd like having to rush from the rear of the upper deck to be ready to get off, particularly on faster sections of road with relatively closely spaced stops. It can be bad enough on conventional London or provincial spec buses at some locations. A centre staircase might be a good idea on tri-axles but as that went out of favour some time ago I just don't see it happening. Alternatively a second staircase at the rear would be even better for routes with people making shorter journeys but that would basically be a stretched LT in terms of layout, so unfortunately there's no way that will happen either.
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Post by Nathan on Dec 20, 2016 16:05:19 GMT
I think a few turns in the Plumstead area on route 53 would defeat a 12m tri axle bus I'm afraid. I can't think, to be honest, of any suitable route in South East London for them - either not busy enough or busy enough, but turns etc. unsuitable. There are two obvious route candidates. First photo - RegentV207 on Flickr but seen on Chinamotorbus.com website. Second photo - mine! Where did you take that second picture?
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Post by enviroPB on Dec 20, 2016 16:07:50 GMT
There are two obvious route candidates. First photo - RegentV207 on Flickr but seen on Chinamotorbus.com website. Second photo - mine! Where did you take that second picture? If I were to hazzard a guess, it'll be Tottenham High Road near Seven Sisters station.
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Post by snoggle on Dec 20, 2016 16:11:48 GMT
While I don't use any TfL routes regularly enough to know which ones have capacity issues where tri-axle buses could be useful (other than a couple of more obvious routes), there are other things to consider such as the average length of passenger journeys and whether many passengers board or alight at a handful of stops on a route or if it's more spread out. The Enviro500 is quite customisable but I would assume one built to a TfL specification would have a similar layout to conventional London buses - a forward staircase, front entrance and centre exit (this is the most common layout for Enviro500s anyway). However dwell times at stops would increase as there would be a higher number of passengers using that arrangement. Therefore the most suitable routes would be those which have high loadings but with passengers making longer journeys resulting in few busy stops. Personally while it would be interesting to see such buses in London I'm not sure I'd like having to rush from the rear of the upper deck to be ready to get off, particularly on faster sections of road with relatively closely spaced stops. It can be bad enough on conventional London or provincial spec buses at some locations. A centre staircase might be a good idea on tri-axles but as that went out of favour some time ago I just don't see it happening. Alternatively a second staircase at the rear would be even better for routes with people making shorter journeys but that would basically be a stretched LT in terms of layout, so unfortunately there's no way that will happen either. I don't dispute any of the basic observations you make. Barring the 607, which already has long dwell times at some stops, I can't think of a sufficiently busy route in London that is not prone to the "lots of stops, lots of people on and off" issue. All routes face that risk depending on the time of day and how other routes which may overlap are doing. If I use the 123 as an example then it can have journeys where not many people are getting on and off - plenty taking longish trips. However it can also be the first bus to appear heading towards Gants Hill in Ilford Town Centre and it will be picking up lots of people at every stop in the town centre and then setting down and picking up at every subsequent stop almost to Claybury Broadway. If a 179 runs in front then it can take a fair bit of demand off the 123. Anyway I think future bus types might be a bit more radical in concept if some politicians get their way. However it will depend entirely on their "clean air" capability. I leave you with this image as a bus I could see TfL being "persuaded" to trial but the issue with it will be its environmental credentials as it's not hybrid.
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Post by snoggle on Dec 20, 2016 16:17:39 GMT
Where did you take that second picture? If I were to hazzard a guess, it'll be Tottenham High Road near Seven Sisters station. Mr "Enviro" is spot on. It is just north of Seven Sisters Tube opposite Tescos when there was a contra flow bus lane. The presence of Metrobuses shows how long ago it was. I was very lucky in that I'd gone out and caught a 123 to Blackhorse Rd. I knew the tri-axle might be around so I asked the driver where it was. He said "it's the bus behind me" so I waited for it and had a short spin down to Seven Sisters where I managed a couple of snaps. Probably the nicest bus that's ever run on the 123.
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Post by ServerKing on Dec 20, 2016 17:38:55 GMT
In my part of London, (SW) possibilities include : 131 (tender award awaited), or maybe the 11.4m version of the VHs as used on KU services (without glass stairs) 85 (long and straight, with heavy peak loads) 267 (via Brentford which is a population growth area) Think most other routes would struggle due to a tight corner/junction 267 would do well with longer buses, the only problem is if one gets turned at Brentford County Court (much stand space amongst the 195's?) Arriva did trial a StreetDeck Max on the W3 a couple of years back but there were issues with the bus grounding on speed humps in Ally Pally
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Post by planesandtrains on Dec 20, 2016 17:51:53 GMT
The X26? It would create space for the large bags people carry and would allow the same amount of priority seats to be kept.
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Post by T.R. on Dec 20, 2016 18:11:43 GMT
Although the placement of the stairs / exit door, and dwell times would also be worth considering on the other routes. The X26? It would create space for the large bags people carry and would allow the same amount of priority seats to be kept. You beat me to it!!
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Post by capitalomnibus on Dec 20, 2016 21:29:35 GMT
If I were to hazzard a guess, it'll be Tottenham High Road near Seven Sisters station. Mr "Enviro" is spot on. It is just north of Seven Sisters Tube opposite Tescos when there was a contra flow bus lane. The presence of Metrobuses shows how long ago it was. I was very lucky in that I'd gone out and caught a 123 to Blackhorse Rd. I knew the tri-axle might be around so I asked the driver where it was. He said "it's the bus behind me" so I waited for it and had a short spin down to Seven Sisters where I managed a couple of snaps. Probably the nicest bus that's ever run on the 123. I used to use the 123 then to go school, but somehow never saw that one. The nicest bus was the non LT single door Titan Capital Citybus run on the 123, seemed so much more different from the LT Titans.
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