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Post by londonbuses on Jan 19, 2024 21:23:38 GMT
I’m not sure they will. If the bridge reopens I don’t expect TfL to run anywhere near as many routes as they did before. They need 1-2 key routes only. I think the 33, 72 and 209 would be essential but the 419 and 485 possibly not so now. I definitely don't think the 283 aswell would return. In my opinion I can't see the 419 not returning to Hammersmith, the return of the 72 to Roehampton would make the current 419 routing redundant. I wonder whether the original plans to extend the 110 over the 419 (instead of the 391) might be reconsidered, as they certainly made more sense than the current 110 routing. Maybe the 209 and 283 could also be combined into a Mortlake to East Acton route? That would give the 209 a 6bph frequency at a lower cost than reinstating it as it used to be, and would save on stand space in Hammersmith. |
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Post by evergreenadam on Jan 19, 2024 21:43:29 GMT
I think the 33, 72 and 209 would be essential but the 419 and 485 possibly not so now. I definitely don't think the 283 aswell would return. In my opinion I can't see the 419 not returning to Hammersmith, the return of the 72 to Roehampton would make the current 419 routing redundant. I wonder whether the original plans to extend the 110 over the 419 (instead of the 391) might be reconsidered, as they certainly made more sense than the current 110 routing. Maybe the 209 and 283 could also be combined into a Mortlake to East Acton route? That would give the 209 a 6bph frequency at a lower cost than reinstating it as it used to be, and would save on stand space in Hammersmith. Good thinking, would give Mortlake and Barnes Pond a through service to Westfield. |
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Post by DT 11 on Jan 20, 2024 6:07:28 GMT
Most likely. 209 aswell. Personally in time I'd like to see the 378 and 485 merged into a permanent Wandsworth to Mortlake route I’m not sure they will. If the bridge reopens I don’t expect TfL to run anywhere near as many routes as they did before. They need 1-2 key routes only. The strength of the bridge will also need to be taken into consideration. If it is built up again strong enough to even take double deckers. A consultation will most likely happen I think anyways. 33 & 72 key services I believe will be restored. The 209 was a very busy route before being cut because of the Bridge. I think the 209 & 378 will most likely get withdrawn and any random service dumped to terminate at Mortlake for the sake of it. |
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Post by Dad91 on Jan 20, 2024 9:07:54 GMT
I’m not sure they will. If the bridge reopens I don’t expect TfL to run anywhere near as many routes as they did before. They need 1-2 key routes only. I think the 33, 72 and 209 would be essential but the 419 and 485 possibly not so now. I definitely don't think the 283 aswell would return. where did 283.ise to run |
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Post by LT 20181 on Jan 20, 2024 9:49:55 GMT
I think the 33, 72 and 209 would be essential but the 419 and 485 possibly not so now. I definitely don't think the 283 aswell would return. where did 283.ise to run Barnes Pond. The route also terminated at the nearby Wetland Centre on a seasonal basis as well I believe. |
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Post by gwiwer on Jan 21, 2024 11:31:30 GMT
Putting the 33 back to Hammersmith is a given. So should be returning the 72 to Roehampton. Those two cover most of the traffic flows between them. A valid question would be what happens to the 533? It has become well used even after Hammersmith Bridge reopened to pedestrians. To the extent that a doubling of frequency was required. It remains a "temporary" route but is there perhaps enough traffic to sustain it on a permanent basis? We shall only know when Hammersmith Bridge reopens.
I cannot see the point of the 209 as it is today. It was calved off the 9 many years ago (when Mortlake garage closed or when Hammersmith Bridge was restricted to s/d?) to shorten the crew-operated section and to - allegedly - improve reliability. Very few people use it along Avondale Road which really serves only to access the stand at the former garage site. Removing the bus from that stretch places a few homes at greater than the TfL-desired 400m from public transport. Owing to restricted road width there is no option to create a through route from the current terminus to anywhere else. The 533 covers trips towards Hammersmith and the 378 covers most trips towards Barnes.
One option might be to withdraw the 378 and modify the 485. The 485 would then run from Barnes Common direct to Castelnau (via the Wetland Centre when open) leaving the narrow western leg of Mill Hill Road unserved. It would then continue via the present 419 LOR to Lonsdale Road and The Terrace to reach Avondale Road thus serving both ends of Barnes village but not becoming delayed by traffic around the pond. This then frees the 419 to be sent through Barnes village rather than all the way around Castelnau in the event that the 72 doesn't return.
If the 72 returns to Roehampton then the 419 can also be withdrawn by further projecting my 485 from Barnes Bridge via the 419 LOR to Richmond. Richmond - Wandsworth is not an unduly long route and should be workable.
The worst case scenario here has Avondale Road and a part of Mill Hill Road unserved but both have alternatives nearby albeit just beyond the 400m target in the case of the old Mortlake Garage stop.
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Post by DE20106 on Jan 21, 2024 12:12:35 GMT
Putting the 33 back to Hammersmith is a given. So should be returning the 72 to Roehampton. Those two cover most of the traffic flows between them. A valid question would be what happens to the 533? It has become well used even after Hammersmith Bridge reopened to pedestrians. To the extent that a doubling of frequency was required. It remains a "temporary" route but is there perhaps enough traffic to sustain it on a permanent basis? We shall only know when Hammersmith Bridge reopens. I cannot see the point of the 209 as it is today. It was calved off the 9 many years ago (when Mortlake garage closed or when Hammersmith Bridge was restricted to s/d?) to shorten the crew-operated section and to - allegedly - improve reliability. Very few people use it along Avondale Road which really serves only to access the stand at the former garage site. Removing the bus from that stretch places a few homes at greater than the TfL-desired 400m from public transport. Owing to restricted road width there is no option to create a through route from the current terminus to anywhere else. The 533 covers trips towards Hammersmith and the 378 covers most trips towards Barnes. One option might be to withdraw the 378 and modify the 485. The 485 would then run from Barnes Common direct to Castelnau (via the Wetland Centre when open) leaving the narrow western leg of Mill Hill Road unserved. It would then continue via the present 419 LOR to Lonsdale Road and The Terrace to reach Avondale Road thus serving both ends of Barnes village but not becoming delayed by traffic around the pond. This then frees the 419 to be sent through Barnes village rather than all the way around Castelnau in the event that the 72 doesn't return. If the 72 returns to Roehampton then the 419 can also be withdrawn by further projecting my 485 from Barnes Bridge via the 419 LOR to Richmond. Richmond - Wandsworth is not an unduly long route and should be workable. The worst case scenario here has Avondale Road and a part of Mill Hill Road unserved but both have alternatives nearby albeit just beyond the 400m target in the case of the old Mortlake Garage stop. No question of it the 72 needs to return to its full former routing. The usage that route had was insane |
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Post by southlondonbus on Jan 21, 2024 12:47:09 GMT
Putting the 33 back to Hammersmith is a given. So should be returning the 72 to Roehampton. Those two cover most of the traffic flows between them. A valid question would be what happens to the 533? It has become well used even after Hammersmith Bridge reopened to pedestrians. To the extent that a doubling of frequency was required. It remains a "temporary" route but is there perhaps enough traffic to sustain it on a permanent basis? We shall only know when Hammersmith Bridge reopens. I cannot see the point of the 209 as it is today. It was calved off the 9 many years ago (when Mortlake garage closed or when Hammersmith Bridge was restricted to s/d?) to shorten the crew-operated section and to - allegedly - improve reliability. Very few people use it along Avondale Road which really serves only to access the stand at the former garage site. Removing the bus from that stretch places a few homes at greater than the TfL-desired 400m from public transport. Owing to restricted road width there is no option to create a through route from the current terminus to anywhere else. The 533 covers trips towards Hammersmith and the 378 covers most trips towards Barnes. One option might be to withdraw the 378 and modify the 485. The 485 would then run from Barnes Common direct to Castelnau (via the Wetland Centre when open) leaving the narrow western leg of Mill Hill Road unserved. It would then continue via the present 419 LOR to Lonsdale Road and The Terrace to reach Avondale Road thus serving both ends of Barnes village but not becoming delayed by traffic around the pond. This then frees the 419 to be sent through Barnes village rather than all the way around Castelnau in the event that the 72 doesn't return. If the 72 returns to Roehampton then the 419 can also be withdrawn by further projecting my 485 from Barnes Bridge via the 419 LOR to Richmond. Richmond - Wandsworth is not an unduly long route and should be workable. The worst case scenario here has Avondale Road and a part of Mill Hill Road unserved but both have alternatives nearby albeit just beyond the 400m target in the case of the old Mortlake Garage stop. Was when Hammersmith Bridge was restricted. The 9 did run to the Mortlake bus station. It may have been shortened now anyways due to the Barnes Bridge Railway bridge which is quite low. |
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Post by vjaska on Jan 21, 2024 13:34:33 GMT
Putting the 33 back to Hammersmith is a given. So should be returning the 72 to Roehampton. Those two cover most of the traffic flows between them. A valid question would be what happens to the 533? It has become well used even after Hammersmith Bridge reopened to pedestrians. To the extent that a doubling of frequency was required. It remains a "temporary" route but is there perhaps enough traffic to sustain it on a permanent basis? We shall only know when Hammersmith Bridge reopens. I cannot see the point of the 209 as it is today. It was calved off the 9 many years ago (when Mortlake garage closed or when Hammersmith Bridge was restricted to s/d?) to shorten the crew-operated section and to - allegedly - improve reliability. Very few people use it along Avondale Road which really serves only to access the stand at the former garage site. Removing the bus from that stretch places a few homes at greater than the TfL-desired 400m from public transport. Owing to restricted road width there is no option to create a through route from the current terminus to anywhere else. The 533 covers trips towards Hammersmith and the 378 covers most trips towards Barnes. One option might be to withdraw the 378 and modify the 485. The 485 would then run from Barnes Common direct to Castelnau (via the Wetland Centre when open) leaving the narrow western leg of Mill Hill Road unserved. It would then continue via the present 419 LOR to Lonsdale Road and The Terrace to reach Avondale Road thus serving both ends of Barnes village but not becoming delayed by traffic around the pond. This then frees the 419 to be sent through Barnes village rather than all the way around Castelnau in the event that the 72 doesn't return. If the 72 returns to Roehampton then the 419 can also be withdrawn by further projecting my 485 from Barnes Bridge via the 419 LOR to Richmond. Richmond - Wandsworth is not an unduly long route and should be workable. The worst case scenario here has Avondale Road and a part of Mill Hill Road unserved but both have alternatives nearby albeit just beyond the 400m target in the case of the old Mortlake Garage stop. Before the bridge closure, the 209 usage to Avondale Road was quite high as right by the Avondale Road stand is the footbridge to access the other side of the railway line which people did use quite a bit. This was still the case even once the 378 and current 209 structure came into place, just at a lower level, so I do think something from Hammersmith may still be required if the bridge is sorted. The biggest issue Avondale Road has is having more than one route like the current setup where 209’s & 378’s can get in each other’s way at the stand itself so one route in particular will have to be prioritised to run down there |
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Post by ADH45258 on Jan 21, 2024 15:45:43 GMT
Putting the 33 back to Hammersmith is a given. So should be returning the 72 to Roehampton. Those two cover most of the traffic flows between them. A valid question would be what happens to the 533? It has become well used even after Hammersmith Bridge reopened to pedestrians. To the extent that a doubling of frequency was required. It remains a "temporary" route but is there perhaps enough traffic to sustain it on a permanent basis? We shall only know when Hammersmith Bridge reopens. I cannot see the point of the 209 as it is today. It was calved off the 9 many years ago (when Mortlake garage closed or when Hammersmith Bridge was restricted to s/d?) to shorten the crew-operated section and to - allegedly - improve reliability. Very few people use it along Avondale Road which really serves only to access the stand at the former garage site. Removing the bus from that stretch places a few homes at greater than the TfL-desired 400m from public transport. Owing to restricted road width there is no option to create a through route from the current terminus to anywhere else. The 533 covers trips towards Hammersmith and the 378 covers most trips towards Barnes. One option might be to withdraw the 378 and modify the 485. The 485 would then run from Barnes Common direct to Castelnau (via the Wetland Centre when open) leaving the narrow western leg of Mill Hill Road unserved. It would then continue via the present 419 LOR to Lonsdale Road and The Terrace to reach Avondale Road thus serving both ends of Barnes village but not becoming delayed by traffic around the pond. This then frees the 419 to be sent through Barnes village rather than all the way around Castelnau in the event that the 72 doesn't return. If the 72 returns to Roehampton then the 419 can also be withdrawn by further projecting my 485 from Barnes Bridge via the 419 LOR to Richmond. Richmond - Wandsworth is not an unduly long route and should be workable. The worst case scenario here has Avondale Road and a part of Mill Hill Road unserved but both have alternatives nearby albeit just beyond the 400m target in the case of the old Mortlake Garage stop. Before the bridge closure, the 209 usage to Avondale Road was quite high as right by the Avondale Road stand is the footbridge to access the other side of the railway line which people did use quite a bit. This was still the case even once the 378 and current 209 structure came into place, just at a lower level, so I do think something from Hammersmith may still be required if the bridge is sorted. The biggest issue Avondale Road has is having more than one route like the current setup where 209’s & 378’s can get in each other’s way at the stand itself so one route in particular will have to be prioritised to run down there Assuming the 419 gets split again, perhaps the Richmond end could just merge with the 209 when the bridge opens again, including a double run to Avondale Road (therefore no buses standing there)? A suggestion was made that a revised 485 could take over the 419's local roads between Barnes Bridge and Castelnau - so could basically reinstate the old 209 from Hammersmith to Mortlake, then extending to Richmond? Or alternatively could merge the 110/419 as originally proposed, then maybe the 209/283 together? |
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Jan 27, 2024 6:00:17 GMT
Putting the 33 back to Hammersmith is a given. So should be returning the 72 to Roehampton. Those two cover most of the traffic flows between them. A valid question would be what happens to the 533? It has become well used even after Hammersmith Bridge reopened to pedestrians. To the extent that a doubling of frequency was required. It remains a "temporary" route but is there perhaps enough traffic to sustain it on a permanent basis? We shall only know when Hammersmith Bridge reopens. I cannot see the point of the 209 as it is today. It was calved off the 9 many years ago (when Mortlake garage closed or when Hammersmith Bridge was restricted to s/d?) to shorten the crew-operated section and to - allegedly - improve reliability. Very few people use it along Avondale Road which really serves only to access the stand at the former garage site. Removing the bus from that stretch places a few homes at greater than the TfL-desired 400m from public transport. Owing to restricted road width there is no option to create a through route from the current terminus to anywhere else. The 533 covers trips towards Hammersmith and the 378 covers most trips towards Barnes. One option might be to withdraw the 378 and modify the 485. The 485 would then run from Barnes Common direct to Castelnau (via the Wetland Centre when open) leaving the narrow western leg of Mill Hill Road unserved. It would then continue via the present 419 LOR to Lonsdale Road and The Terrace to reach Avondale Road thus serving both ends of Barnes village but not becoming delayed by traffic around the pond. This then frees the 419 to be sent through Barnes village rather than all the way around Castelnau in the event that the 72 doesn't return. If the 72 returns to Roehampton then the 419 can also be withdrawn by further projecting my 485 from Barnes Bridge via the 419 LOR to Richmond. Richmond - Wandsworth is not an unduly long route and should be workable. The worst case scenario here has Avondale Road and a part of Mill Hill Road unserved but both have alternatives nearby albeit just beyond the 400m target in the case of the old Mortlake Garage stop. No question of it the 72 needs to return to its full former routing. The usage that route had was insane I doubt it will return to its full former routing. It was withdrawn between Roehampton and Tolworth in 1991 (and replaced on that section by route 265). But yes, returning to Roehampton would be very sensible. |
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Post by LD71YLO (BE37054) on Jan 27, 2024 15:36:48 GMT
No question of it the 72 needs to return to its full former routing. The usage that route had was insane I doubt it will return to its full former routing. It was withdrawn between Roehampton and Tolworth in 1991 (and replaced on that section by route 265). But yes, returning to Roehampton would be very sensible.  |
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Post by southlondonbus on Jan 27, 2024 17:11:44 GMT
I doubt it will return to its full former routing. It was withdrawn between Roehampton and Tolworth in 1991 (and replaced on that section by route 265). But yes, returning to Roehampton would be very sensible. Even by 1991 the route was running in sections due to the length. Ofcouse back then the 2 sections overlapping would have met the Roehampton to Hammersmith demand without over doing the section between Hammersmith and East Acton. |
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Post by gwiwer on Jan 28, 2024 15:19:53 GMT
And it was often well worth the wait for one going through to Tolworth before it became driver-only. Traffic delays farther up the line often resulted in an RT hammering down the Kingston By-Pass (no deviations through housing or slip-roads in those days) at some rate of knots to regain time.
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Post by riverside on Jan 29, 2024 16:04:50 GMT
And it was often well worth the wait for one going through to Tolworth before it became driver-only. Traffic delays farther up the line often resulted in an RT hammering down the Kingston By-Pass (no deviations through housing or slip-roads in those days) at some rate of knots to regain time. A fast trip down the Kingston-by -Pass on the 72 was an exhilarating ride whether on an RT to Esher or Hampton Court Station or an RM to Tolworth Broadway or Chessington Zoo. Equally thrilling was a trip on a Green Line RMC on the 715. |
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