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Post by paulo on Jun 21, 2017 20:01:37 GMT
Lots have said that hallmark will take over the contract for 555 service from first with a slight extension to the route That's a real shame. First have seemingly done a great job with 555. I'm guessing the extension is to Heathrow Central alongside 557. All new SCC contracts will commence 2nd September and SCC are estimating savings of approx £700k per annum. The 555 always seems to empty in Sunbury at least so I doubt First 'went for broke' on the tender. Considerable savings for Surrey Council when Abellio couldn't make it work on presumably higher contract (and we know that Abellio aren't afraid of tight margins). I sense trouble ahead.
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Post by tony4387 on Jun 21, 2017 20:09:46 GMT
Lots have said that hallmark will take over the contract for 555 service from first with a slight extension to the route That's a real shame. First have seemingly done a great job with 555. I'm guessing the extension is to Heathrow Central alongside 557. All new SCC contracts will commence 2nd September and SCC are estimating savings of approx £700k per annum. According to LOTS 555 awarded from first to hallmark with a re routing to Heathrow central instead of. Terminal 5 and extended from hersham to Whiteley village in place of the small section of the 564 route
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Post by vjaska on Jun 21, 2017 23:13:41 GMT
That's a real shame. First have seemingly done a great job with 555. I'm guessing the extension is to Heathrow Central alongside 557. All new SCC contracts will commence 2nd September and SCC are estimating savings of approx £700k per annum. The 555 always seems to empty in Sunbury at least so I doubt First 'went for broke' on the tender. Considerable savings for Surrey Council when Abellio couldn't make it work on presumably higher contract (and we know that Abellio aren't afraid of tight margins). I sense trouble ahead. Interesting you say that as when I did the 555 end to end, it was quiet between Heathrow & Sunbury but from Sunbury onwards, patronage wasn't too bad so certainly got some merit to the route and this was under Abellio.
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Post by redexpress on Jun 22, 2017 9:19:28 GMT
The 555 always seems to empty in Sunbury at least so I doubt First 'went for broke' on the tender. Considerable savings for Surrey Council when Abellio couldn't make it work on presumably higher contract (and we know that Abellio aren't afraid of tight margins). I sense trouble ahead. Interesting you say that as when I did the 555 end to end, it was quiet between Heathrow & Sunbury but from Sunbury onwards, patronage wasn't too bad so certainly got some merit to the route and this was under Abellio. Sounds like the Heathrow end of the 555 has been dying for quite a while. I remember using the 555/6/7 when LU ran them at a 15-minute frequency over the core route between Heathrow Central and Shepperton. Loadings always seemed pretty good, certainly the 10.7m DPs weren't wasted on the routes. But by the end of Abellio's tenure loadings had dropped dramatically. The route seemed to be in a vicious cycle of falling patronage leading to frequency cuts, and frequency cuts leading to patronage falling even more. If Hallmark are going to restore a 30-minute frequency between Heathrow Central and Shepperton (555 and 557 combined) that's the first positive move this corridor has seen in a long time. Good luck to them.
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Post by snoggle on Jun 22, 2017 10:04:59 GMT
Interesting you say that as when I did the 555 end to end, it was quiet between Heathrow & Sunbury but from Sunbury onwards, patronage wasn't too bad so certainly got some merit to the route and this was under Abellio. Sounds like the Heathrow end of the 555 has been dying for quite a while. I remember using the 555/6/7 when LU ran them at a 15-minute frequency over the core route between Heathrow Central and Shepperton. Loadings always seemed pretty good, certainly the 10.7m DPs weren't wasted on the routes. But by the end of Abellio's tenure loadings had dropped dramatically. The route seemed to be in a vicious cycle of falling patronage leading to frequency cuts, and frequency cuts leading to patronage falling even more. If Hallmark are going to restore a 30-minute frequency between Heathrow Central and Shepperton (555 and 557 combined) that's the first positive move this corridor has seen in a long time. Good luck to them. I've never used these routes but always thought the LU era with smartly presented buses was a decent example of cross boundary services. I wonder, though, if the routes have ever made money and they simply fell victim to SCC's never ending need to cut its bus spending. As soon as you start dismantling and trimming routes like this you fall over the edge from "turn up and go" to "oh heck what time is the bus due?" and that puts people off - especially in places with high car ownership. The need to improve the financial performance probably pushed fares up and service levels down - another negative. I also wonder whether the funding from Heathrow Airport to support this service group is properly reflective of costs (assuming HAL still provide money, I believe they did in the past).
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Post by redexpress on Jun 22, 2017 10:40:08 GMT
Sounds like the Heathrow end of the 555 has been dying for quite a while. I remember using the 555/6/7 when LU ran them at a 15-minute frequency over the core route between Heathrow Central and Shepperton. Loadings always seemed pretty good, certainly the 10.7m DPs weren't wasted on the routes. But by the end of Abellio's tenure loadings had dropped dramatically. The route seemed to be in a vicious cycle of falling patronage leading to frequency cuts, and frequency cuts leading to patronage falling even more. If Hallmark are going to restore a 30-minute frequency between Heathrow Central and Shepperton (555 and 557 combined) that's the first positive move this corridor has seen in a long time. Good luck to them. I've never used these routes but always thought the LU era with smartly presented buses was a decent example of cross boundary services. I wonder, though, if the routes have ever made money and they simply fell victim to SCC's never ending need to cut its bus spending. As soon as you start dismantling and trimming routes like this you fall over the edge from "turn up and go" to "oh heck what time is the bus due?" and that puts people off - especially in places with high car ownership. The need to improve the financial performance probably pushed fares up and service levels down - another negative. I also wonder whether the funding from Heathrow Airport to support this service group is properly reflective of costs (assuming HAL still provide money, I believe they did in the past). I suspect you're right that the routes have never stood on their own feet commercially. The high point (the era of LU branded buses etc) was when HAL's bus spending was at its peak (remember they were funding things like the free H30 service at the time). I think they've been cutting bus funding over the past few years, which, combined with SCC cuts, has been disastrous for the 555. HAL still finance a few early & late journeys on the 555, and there must also be a payment to cover acceptance of their discounted staff travelcards, but beyond that I don't know if they make any further contribution. In addition to loss of funding the 555 will have suffered, just like most cross-boundary services, from TfL's fare policies from the early 2000s onwards. From Stanwell most people will probably take a 203 then a free 285 to get to Heathrow these days. The absorbption of the 216 into the TfL network will also have been a blow, as it parallels the 555 between Sunbury and Ashford Hospital. It's not suprising to hear (from vjaska's observations) that the highest loadings are now at the outer end of the route, which I think is the opposite of the situation 15 years ago. Incidentally, while looking for info on the airport staff travelcard I came across this snippet about the 441: " Recent changes from the Central Terminal Area and Terminal 5 has seen the 7 Series buses increase their service to every 10 minutes, providing a high frequency connection between the two main sites at the airport. Heathrow was funding this link on the 441 and decided to discontinue this support from 31st August 2017. The bus service operator of the 441 (Abellio) has taken a wider decision to discontinue the 441 service to the airport."
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Post by snoggle on Jun 22, 2017 11:12:15 GMT
Incidentally, while looking for info on the airport staff travelcard I came across this snippet about the 441: " Recent changes from the Central Terminal Area and Terminal 5 has seen the 7 Series buses increase their service to every 10 minutes, providing a high frequency connection between the two main sites at the airport. Heathrow was funding this link on the 441 and decided to discontinue this support from 31st August 2017. The bus service operator of the 441 (Abellio) has taken a wider decision to discontinue the 441 service to the airport." HAL continuing their long established role as money grabbing, tight fisted "bleeps" there. They really are an awful, short sighted organisation. They can afford to fund bus services but they have slowly wriggled out of / reduced their obligations over the years. I wonder if anyone in authority actually keeps track of all of this and holds them to account?
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Post by tony4387 on Jun 23, 2017 19:56:44 GMT
Given the fact the stagecoach will expand the SCC work they have taken over I'm wondering if Guildford Has enough bus space to cover them all or is it near enough full all ready
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Post by planesandtrains on Jul 1, 2017 14:33:42 GMT
It looks like there is going to be a bus war on the 461: I quote from the SCC page '461 (Abellio) – this service will continue to be operated by Abellio and will run every 30 minutes on Mondays to Saturdays between Kingston and Addlestone. In addition, a second operator has advised the Council that it intends to run a service every 30 minutes on Mondays to Saturdays between Kingston and St Peters Hospital, every 60 minutes after 7pm and every 60 minutes on Sundays between Kingston and Chertsey. The services of these two operators are not controlled by the Council and this information is given in good faith for completeness. No further detail is yet available.' Bring it on
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Post by redexpress on Jul 1, 2017 15:05:32 GMT
It looks like there is going to be a bus war on the 461: I quote from the SCC page '461 (Abellio) – this service will continue to be operated by Abellio and will run every 30 minutes on Mondays to Saturdays between Kingston and Addlestone. In addition, a second operator has advised the Council that it intends to run a service every 30 minutes on Mondays to Saturdays between Kingston and St Peters Hospital, every 60 minutes after 7pm and every 60 minutes on Sundays between Kingston and Chertsey. The services of these two operators are not controlled by the Council and this information is given in good faith for completeness. No further detail is yet available.' Bring it on Good grief - who'd have thought there'd be room for two operators to fight over a corridor like that? There's still some life in the Surrey bus market after all! Looking at the SCC page there are a few changes and additions to what was previously reported. The 446 is now listed as going to White Bus rather than Stagecoach - I wonder what happened there? This means Stagecoach's gains are mostly minor ones - they've added the 81, plus school route 690 and a few shopping-hour routes (39s etc). Elsewhere Compass seem to have taken most of Excetera's Guildford area routes. There's confirmation that the 441 is withdrawn from Heathrow as I mentioned earlier, and a substantial extension to the 515 to replace much of the 459. Also confirnation that Bear Buses will continue to run school journeys on the 400 when the main service transfers to LU. I see Cardinal aren't completely out of it as they will still be running the 856.
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Post by MoEnviro on Jul 1, 2017 15:21:19 GMT
It looks like there is going to be a bus war on the 461: I quote from the SCC page '461 (Abellio) – this service will continue to be operated by Abellio and will run every 30 minutes on Mondays to Saturdays between Kingston and Addlestone. In addition, a second operator has advised the Council that it intends to run a service every 30 minutes on Mondays to Saturdays between Kingston and St Peters Hospital, every 60 minutes after 7pm and every 60 minutes on Sundays between Kingston and Chertsey. The services of these two operators are not controlled by the Council and this information is given in good faith for completeness. No further detail is yet available.' Bring it on It's also worth noting that as part of these changes the 461 will transfer to Abellio London operation at TF.
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Post by tony4387 on Jul 1, 2017 19:32:46 GMT
I wonder what buses falcon and white bus will purchase for the new routes there taking and how many there will be between the operators
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Post by snowman on Jul 2, 2017 6:44:06 GMT
I wonder what buses falcon and white bus will purchase for the new routes there taking and how many there will be between the operators Falcon sourced a number of e200s from around the country last year, (2010-2012 versions), therefore likely to get more (but maybe longer versions) White bus tend to have Optare buses (ignoring the long school buses with high density seating), maybe they will get new buses for their Windsor operations and use the 2014 buses on these services Have to wait and see One thing is for sure, Surrey will become lot more interesting for variety than London single decks Just looked at the latest LSP and it appears that Abellio are cancelling their route 461 and applying for a new LSP for buses max 8.8m long, Not sure where they intend to find buses that short as most of their current ones are nearer 9m
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Post by snowman on Jul 2, 2017 7:14:22 GMT
It looks like there is going to be a bus war on the 461: I quote from the SCC page '461 (Abellio) – this service will continue to be operated by Abellio and will run every 30 minutes on Mondays to Saturdays between Kingston and Addlestone. In addition, a second operator has advised the Council that it intends to run a service every 30 minutes on Mondays to Saturdays between Kingston and St Peters Hospital, every 60 minutes after 7pm and every 60 minutes on Sundays between Kingston and Chertsey. The services of these two operators are not controlled by the Council and this information is given in good faith for completeness. No further detail is yet available.' Bring it on The new LSP has applications for Abellio with max 8.8m buses and Hallmark with max 12m buses Links to Proposed timetables on the consultations pages consultations.tfl.gov.uk/lsp/829c565a/consultations.tfl.gov.uk/lsp/06f6e0d4/So Surrey bus wars will be between London (Abellio, Camberwell) and Brummies (Rotala, Oldbury) There are also LSP consultations for other changes, e.g. hallmark on 555 (with max 12m buses)
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Post by vjaska on Jul 2, 2017 11:45:46 GMT
I wonder what buses falcon and white bus will purchase for the new routes there taking and how many there will be between the operators Falcon sourced a number of e200s from around the country last year, (2010-2012 versions), therefore likely to get more (but maybe longer versions) White bus tend to have Optare buses (ignoring the long school buses with high density seating), maybe they will get new buses for their Windsor operations and use the 2014 buses on these services Have to wait and see One thing is for sure, Surrey will become lot more interesting for variety than London single decks Just looked at the latest LSP and it appears that Abellio are cancelling their route 461 and applying for a new LSP for buses max 8.8m long, Not sure where they intend to find buses that short as most of their current ones are nearer 9m MPD's are generally classed as 8.8m and the 461 already sees strays of these as did the 458 before it was lost so it most likely those.
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