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Post by richard on Nov 29, 2021 10:57:09 GMT
You are talking complete BS you don't even have clue about the occupation. Your just the average Jo public that complains all the time about tube drivers. Like I said before they don't just sit there and twiddling there fingers they are there for a safety critical job. You wouldn't want a airplane to have no pilots would you? Notably airplanes are not tube trains, tube trains around the world manage without a driver so no reason London can't. The underground is an old system. Underground systems around the world are newer than London's so they can get away with it.
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Post by SILENCED on Nov 29, 2021 11:05:03 GMT
Notably airplanes are not tube trains, tube trains around the world manage without a driver so no reason London can't. The underground is an old system. Underground systems around the world are newer than London's so they can get away with it. But Thameslink is effectively driver free through the core, being controlled by the signalling .... if that is possible, why can it not be expanded. You just need digital signalling and compatible trains. The Picadilly line is getting the compatible trains ... but digital signalling is currently postponed due to funding issues. If you read about what is happening with autonomous/remote in the military world, a tube line is pretty simple.
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Post by ThinLizzy on Nov 29, 2021 13:25:10 GMT
You are talking complete BS you don't even have clue about the occupation. Your just the average Jo public that complains all the time about tube drivers. Like I said before they don't just sit there and twiddling there fingers they are there for a safety critical job. You wouldn't want a airplane to have no pilots would you? Notably airplanes are not tube trains, tube trains around the world manage without a driver so no reason London can't. that may be so, but implementation of full GoA4 is pretty expensive on a Metro system let alone across the UK Similarly, suggesting 1000s of people lose their jobs because it took a little bit longer for you to get to work one day is petty strong.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Nov 29, 2021 13:28:38 GMT
Notably airplanes are not tube trains, tube trains around the world manage without a driver so no reason London can't. that may be so, but implementation of full GoA4 is pretty expensive on a Metro system let alone across the UK Similarly, suggesting 1000s of people lose their jobs because it took a little bit longer for you to get to work one day is petty strong. I don't think anyone should lose jobs, nor have reduced wages simply because what has been given can't be taken away, even if I do believe they are excessively paid. I'm sure they could perform similar duties to the DLR PSAs in a driverless world.
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Post by ThinLizzy on Nov 29, 2021 13:30:46 GMT
that may be so, but implementation of full GoA4 is pretty expensive on a Metro system let alone across the UK Similarly, suggesting 1000s of people lose their jobs because it took a little bit longer for you to get to work one day is petty strong. I don't think anyone should lose jobs, nor have reduced wages simply because what has been given can't be taken away, even if I do believe they are excessively paid. I'm sure they could perform similar duties to the DLR PSAs in a driverless world. it's interesting you think tube drivers are "overpaid" without displaying any understanding of why tube/train drivers are paid as much as they are
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Post by SILENCED on Nov 29, 2021 13:33:38 GMT
Notably airplanes are not tube trains, tube trains around the world manage without a driver so no reason London can't. that may be so, but implementation of full GoA4 is pretty expensive on a Metro system let alone across the UK Similarly, suggesting 1000s of people lose their jobs because it took a little bit longer for you to get to work one day is petty strong. He is suggesting it because 100,000s of people have difficulty getting to work and may lose their jobs .... If the tube drivers show no consideration for the public, do they really think they deserve any consideration from the public. They have a well payed jobs ... Breaking the terms of your employment by striking will only put you more at risk. When the Piccadilly Line becomes the first line to be automated, probably won't be until about 2040 knowing how fast TfL works, when other line strike and the Piccadilly Line is offering a full service, everyone will want their line converted.
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Post by busman on Nov 29, 2021 13:49:19 GMT
I don't think anyone should lose jobs, nor have reduced wages simply because what has been given can't be taken away, even if I do believe they are excessively paid. I'm sure they could perform similar duties to the DLR PSAs in a driverless world. it's interesting you think tube drivers are "overpaid" without displaying any understanding of why tube/train drivers are paid as much as they are Maybe everyone else is underpaid. Tube drivers pay and conditions is testament to their unions. If tube drivers didn’t act as a collective, there’s no way they would be earning £50-60k right now. I don’t begrudge anyone earning a good salary for an honest days work. I hate the inconvenience of a tube strike and don’t always agree with their decision to strike, but if they collectively agree to withdraw their labour to ensure their livelihoods are protected and appropriately compensated, so be it.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Nov 29, 2021 13:52:21 GMT
I don't think anyone should lose jobs, nor have reduced wages simply because what has been given can't be taken away, even if I do believe they are excessively paid. I'm sure they could perform similar duties to the DLR PSAs in a driverless world. it's interesting you think tube drivers are "overpaid" without displaying any understanding of why tube/train drivers are paid as much as they are I can't see any reason why they are paid that highly, if someone else sheds light on that then maybe I will reconsider my opinion
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Post by SILENCED on Nov 29, 2021 13:57:23 GMT
it's interesting you think tube drivers are "overpaid" without displaying any understanding of why tube/train drivers are paid as much as they are Maybe everyone else is underpaid. Tube drivers pay and conditions is testament to their unions. If tube drivers didn’t act as a collective, there’s no way they would be earning £50-60k right now. I don’t begrudge anyone earning a good salary for an honest days work. I hate the inconvenience of a tube strike and don’t always agree with their decision to strike, but if they collectively agree to withdraw their labour to ensure their livelihoods are protected and appropriately compensated, so be it. If everyone was paid the wages of a tube driver, do you know how expensive things would be ... £60k would not buy you anywhere near as it does now!
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Post by ThinLizzy on Nov 29, 2021 14:19:42 GMT
it's interesting you think tube drivers are "overpaid" without displaying any understanding of why tube/train drivers are paid as much as they are I can't see any reason why they are paid that highly, if someone else sheds light on that then maybe I will reconsider my opinion ...you know driving trains is more than pressing a couple of buttons and/or pushing a lever forward
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Post by joefrombow on Nov 29, 2021 16:11:19 GMT
I can't see any reason why they are paid that highly, if someone else sheds light on that then maybe I will reconsider my opinion ...you know driving trains is more than pressing a couple of buttons and/or pushing a lever forward I don't get this hatred towards tube drivers when across the railway industry drivers/operators earn 50K+ this is the norm , and also in all other industries if people had enough ( as what's happened with the HGV industry lately ) and walked then maybe these companies would pay more money etc and offer better conditions this isn't about working 4 nights a year it's about letting management take the P once and then think they can do it again and again , whilst it is frustrating for people in other jobs I think the more of this the more better conditions would be for everyone in all different lines of work , I worked in Logistics for 11 years and had enough of the rubbish pay and rubbish hours so re trained and now work in construction where the hours are still rubbish but the pay is a lot better than previously I think more of us need to do this and then maybe these companies the Sainsbury's etc might pay more money a real living wage etc if Lidl are doing it why can't Sainsbury's ?
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Post by greenboy on Nov 29, 2021 16:22:13 GMT
...you know driving trains is more than pressing a couple of buttons and/or pushing a lever forward I don't get this hatred towards tube drivers when across the railway industry drivers/operators earn 50K+ this is the norm , and also in all other industries if people had enough ( as what's happened with the HGV industry lately ) and walked then maybe these companies would pay more money etc and offer better conditions this isn't about working 4 nights a year it's about letting management take the P once and then think they can do it again and again , whilst it is frustrating for people in other jobs I think the more of this the more better conditions would be for everyone in all different lines of work , I worked in Logistics for 11 years and had enough of the rubbish pay and rubbish hours so re trained and now work in construction where the hours are still rubbish but the pay is a lot better than previously I think more of us need to do this and then maybe these companies the Sainsbury's etc might pay more money a real living wage etc if Lidl are doing it why can't Sainsbury's ? I'm not sure about hatred, I just don't think there is going to be much public sympathy towards them over their industrial dispute.
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Post by LondonNorthern on Nov 29, 2021 17:42:37 GMT
that may be so, but implementation of full GoA4 is pretty expensive on a Metro system let alone across the UK Similarly, suggesting 1000s of people lose their jobs because it took a little bit longer for you to get to work one day is petty strong. He is suggesting it because 100,000s of people have difficulty getting to work and may lose their jobs .... If the tube drivers show no consideration for the public, do they really think they deserve any consideration from the public. They have a well payed jobs ... Breaking the terms of your employment by striking will only put you more at risk. When the Piccadilly Line becomes the first line to be automated, probably won't be until about 2040 knowing how fast TfL works, when other line strike and the Piccadilly Line is offering a full service, everyone will want their line converted. Agreed and also even if they are out of a job there'll be plenty more to choose from because of the number created in the digital period. I think there's an estimate within the next few decades the number of jobs will in fact increase as a result of technological advancement, I don't see any self-fixing robots coming anytime soon!
I do think that the debate over high pay is one to really be considered, especially in jobs that don't require the most amount of skill & the minimum wage rising could potentially leave more jobs prone to automation but I understand totally that striking in some areas is absolutely right & vital if management is not listening into employees concerns.
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Post by ThinLizzy on Nov 29, 2021 18:42:56 GMT
...you know driving trains is more than pressing a couple of buttons and/or pushing a lever forward I don't get this hatred towards tube drivers when across the railway industry drivers/operators earn 50K+ this is the norm , and also in all other industries if people had enough ( as what's happened with the HGV industry lately ) and walked then maybe these companies would pay more money etc and offer better conditions this isn't about working 4 nights a year it's about letting management take the P once and then think they can do it again and again , whilst it is frustrating for people in other jobs I think the more of this the more better conditions would be for everyone in all different lines of work , I worked in Logistics for 11 years and had enough of the rubbish pay and rubbish hours so re trained and now work in construction where the hours are still rubbish but the pay is a lot better than previously I think more of us need to do this and then maybe these companies the Sainsbury's etc might pay more money a real living wage etc if Lidl are doing it why can't Sainsbury's ? think the problem is the living wage is entirely voluntary. I believe the minimum wage should really be increased to a living wage level, it just feels wrong to have a minimum wage that people can't live on.
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Post by ServerKing on Nov 29, 2021 19:30:36 GMT
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