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Post by TB123 on Jul 11, 2023 10:36:17 GMT
Not saying that driving a train is unskilled but some people in the NHS earn less arguably doing a higher skilled job. With the long hours and low pay it's no wonder that people quit to find other professions and the NHS is left overwhelmed Agree that NHS staff are underpaid, that isn't the issue of tube drivers however. Both are roles with unique skill that require appropriate wages. Bare in mind on the mainline railway there's actually a shortage of drivers in some parts because it's been a struggle to replace retiring drivers....and some think wage cuts will sort that. Crackers.
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Post by southlondon413 on Jul 11, 2023 10:45:16 GMT
Not saying that driving a train is unskilled but some people in the NHS earn less arguably doing a higher skilled job. With the long hours and low pay it's no wonder that people quit to find other professions and the NHS is left overwhelmed The NHS is a long term career goal as in longer you are there, the more you progress in pay bands. Take on specialist areas means more pay, for doctors progressing to consultant level means more favourable shifts and shorter hours. For train drivers it’s really only drive a train or progress into training other people for a bit more money. But the long term progression isn’t the same. Anyone who goes into medicine thinking they won’t have to put in the hard work at the bottom for favourable outcomes is just deluding themselves. It’s the same for any career but more noticeable within the medical profession.
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Post by WH241 on Jul 11, 2023 10:53:44 GMT
Not saying that driving a train is unskilled but some people in the NHS earn less arguably doing a higher skilled job. With the long hours and low pay it's no wonder that people quit to find other professions and the NHS is left overwhelmed Agree that NHS staff are underpaid, that isn't the issue of tube drivers however. Both are roles with unique skill that require appropriate wages. Bare in mind on the mainline railway there's actually a shortage of drivers in some parts because it's been a struggle to replace retiring drivers....and some think wage cuts will sort that. Crackers. I’m sorry but if nearly 60k is not appropriate what is! It’s an absolute joke that they think it’s acceptable to strike and keep demanding more money! The NHS staff deserve the increases they have been striking for! The same applies for lots of other jobs who have had very modest pay increases.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Jul 11, 2023 11:02:53 GMT
Not saying that driving a train is unskilled but some people in the NHS earn less arguably doing a higher skilled job. With the long hours and low pay it's no wonder that people quit to find other professions and the NHS is left overwhelmed Agree that NHS staff are underpaid, that isn't the issue of tube drivers however. Both are roles with unique skill that require appropriate wages. Bare in mind on the mainline railway there's actually a shortage of drivers in some parts because it's been a struggle to replace retiring drivers....and some think wage cuts will sort that. Crackers. You can't really say that the level of skill required to drive a train is anything like, or even remotely close to the skills required for medical professions. Money doesn't grow on trees, it's finite and needs to be backed suitably to prevent inflation. Doctors are struggling to get their pay increase, but then where does the money suddenly come from for tube drivers?
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Post by ronnie on Jul 11, 2023 11:03:43 GMT
Agree that NHS staff are underpaid, that isn't the issue of tube drivers however. Both are roles with unique skill that require appropriate wages. Bare in mind on the mainline railway there's actually a shortage of drivers in some parts because it's been a struggle to replace retiring drivers....and some think wage cuts will sort that. Crackers. I’m sorry but if nearly 60k is not appropriate what is! It’s an absolute joke that they think it’s acceptable to strike and keep demanding more money! The NHS staff deserve the increases they have been striking for! The same applies for lots of other jobs who have had very modest pay increases. Without getting into the discussion of how highly skilled / not skilled a tube driver’s job is (which I am not qualified to comment on) public sympathy has gone away for tube drivers and now there is probably more latent anger, or at least rank exasperation NHS - people get it and are supportive of them overall. But people don’t get to see the tube drivers in most cases (vs. Say a bus driver who in my view deserve a hike for sure) and there is a fair degree of automation already so the natural question comes as to why they are needed at all given the dlr manages without drivers? Most are ATO operated now so in general joe / Jenny’s view it’s more of a button pushing exercise 90%+ of the time. Appreciate that the other 10% is when tube drivers really earn their salary but that’s the feeling going around now Again, a few strikes here and there might have been bearable (e.g. the bus driver strikes) but seems every few weeks the entire transport network is held at ransom. Again, people who are reasonably well off can drive / just wfh but someone earning minimum wage won’t have that luxury all the time , especially if this goes on for a week!
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Jul 11, 2023 11:04:26 GMT
Not saying that driving a train is unskilled but some people in the NHS earn less arguably doing a higher skilled job. With the long hours and low pay it's no wonder that people quit to find other professions and the NHS is left overwhelmed The NHS is a long term career goal as in longer you are there, the more you progress in pay bands. Take on specialist areas means more pay, for doctors progressing to consultant level means more favourable shifts and shorter hours. For train drivers it’s really only drive a train or progress into training other people for a bit more money. But the long term progression isn’t the same. Anyone who goes into medicine thinking they won’t have to put in the hard work at the bottom for favourable outcomes is just deluding themselves. It’s the same for any career but more noticeable within the medical profession. You raise a good point, man who works the hardest takes the biggest reward. But why should someone now be getting an extortionate amount of money just because they don't have progression? It's like someone being a retail worker and demanding 60K once they've become a store manager as in most cases that's when they've ceiling out.
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Post by southlondon413 on Jul 11, 2023 11:09:50 GMT
The NHS is a long term career goal as in longer you are there, the more you progress in pay bands. Take on specialist areas means more pay, for doctors progressing to consultant level means more favourable shifts and shorter hours. For train drivers it’s really only drive a train or progress into training other people for a bit more money. But the long term progression isn’t the same. Anyone who goes into medicine thinking they won’t have to put in the hard work at the bottom for favourable outcomes is just deluding themselves. It’s the same for any career but more noticeable within the medical profession. You raise a good point, man who works the hardest takes the biggest reward. But why should someone now be getting an extortionate amount of money just because they don't have progression? It's like someone being a retail worker and demanding 60K once they've become a store manager as in most cases that's when they've ceiling out. They have still hit that ceiling of pay, it can’t be helped if they have no ambition to be one of the few who do progress beyond their chosen jobs ceiling. Some people just want a quiet life. Incidentally the maximum ceiling for a Lidl store manager is around £67k.
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Post by greenboy on Jul 11, 2023 11:11:00 GMT
I’m sorry but if nearly 60k is not appropriate what is! It’s an absolute joke that they think it’s acceptable to strike and keep demanding more money! The NHS staff deserve the increases they have been striking for! The same applies for lots of other jobs who have had very modest pay increases. Without getting into the discussion of how highly skilled / not skilled a tube driver’s job is (which I am not qualified to comment on) public sympathy has gone away for tube drivers and now there is probably more latent anger, or at least rank exasperation NHS - people get it and are supportive of them overall. But people don’t get to see the tube drivers in most cases (vs. Say a bus driver who in my view deserve a hike for sure) and there is a fair degree of automation already so the natural question comes as to why they are needed at all given the dlr manages without drivers? Most are ATO operated now so in general joe / Jenny’s view it’s more of a button pushing exercise 90%+ of the time. Appreciate that the other 10% is when tube drivers really earn their salary but that’s the feeling going around now Again, a few strikes here and there might have been bearable (e.g. the bus driver strikes) but seems every few weeks the entire transport network is held at ransom. Again, people who are reasonably well off can drive / just wfh but someone earning minimum wage won’t have that luxury all the time , especially if this goes on for a week! I agree, people are generally supportive of NHS staff but not of train drivers in fact the general feeling is that most, if not all, railway staff are overpaid which is why the fares are so high.
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Post by TA1 on Jul 11, 2023 11:31:33 GMT
Oh look another round of pitting the working class against each other, but no disdain towards Fatcat CEO's who are earning £2k an hour. Not sure why anyone on here is looking down their noses at any other occupation. My wages and fares don't go hand in hand either... Obviously, the daily mail will tell you otherwise, then you'll come on the internet and be a keyboard warrior...
Anyway, I look forward to reading more armchair comments.
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Post by greenboy on Jul 11, 2023 11:36:08 GMT
Oh look another round of pitting the working class against each other, but no disdain towards Fatcat CEO's who are earning £2k an hour. Not sure why anyone on here is looking down their noses at any other occupation. My wages and fares don't go hand in hand either... Obviously, the daily mail will tell you otherwise, then you'll come on the internet and be a keyboard warrior... Anyway, I look forward to reading more armchair comments. If I worked in the rail industry I probably wouldn't be complaining and surely you must realise that people who don't work in the industry are going to have a different opinion to you? References to the Daily Mail etc just undermine your argument.
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Post by TA1 on Jul 11, 2023 11:39:07 GMT
Oh look another round of pitting the working class against each other, but no disdain towards Fatcat CEO's who are earning £2k an hour. Not sure why anyone on here is looking down their noses at any other occupation. My wages and fares don't go hand in hand either... Obviously, the daily mail will tell you otherwise, then you'll come on the internet and be a keyboard warrior... Anyway, I look forward to reading more armchair comments. If I worked in the rail industry I probably wouldn't be complaining and surely you must realise that people who don't work in the industry are going to have a different opinion to you? References to the Daily Mail etc just undermine your argument. You make a good point, you don’t work in the industry, you’re seeing things from the outside looking in. Quite frankly, I don’t mind the opinions being shared if only they are factual, in some most recent cases they aren’t. No idea, where you came to the conclusion my wages are the reason fares are high. 🤷🏾♂️
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Post by greenboy on Jul 11, 2023 11:40:47 GMT
If I worked in the rail industry I probably wouldn't be complaining and surely you must realise that people who don't work in the industry are going to have a different opinion to you? References to the Daily Mail etc just undermine your argument. You make a good point, you don’t work in the industry, you’re seeing things from the outside looking in. Quite frankly, I don’t mind the opinions being shared if only they are factual, in some most recent cases they aren’t. No idea, where you came to the conclusion my wages are the reason fares are high. 🤷🏾♂️ I said that is the general feeling, not necessarily my opinion.
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Post by southlondon413 on Jul 11, 2023 11:51:37 GMT
If I worked in the rail industry I probably wouldn't be complaining and surely you must realise that people who don't work in the industry are going to have a different opinion to you? References to the Daily Mail etc just undermine your argument. You make a good point, you don’t work in the industry, you’re seeing things from the outside looking in. Quite frankly, I don’t mind the opinions being shared if only they are factual, in some most recent cases they aren’t. No idea, where you came to the conclusion my wages are the reason fares are high. 🤷🏾♂️ I would never say drivers salaries are too high, it’s take a lot of time and training to be left in charge of a 200 tonne train with max load of 1500 people, various weight/loads apply. It’s something that not a lot of people could just do but I also think there is a degree of modernisation that needs to happen. But it isn’t helped by TfL, that incident in Clapham on the northern line is indicative of the cost cutting method TfL is employing and frankly it’s going to lead to disaster. The tube is so loud these days and the endless screeching of wheels just puts me off to the point where I’d rather pay more and use SWR or TSGN and walk from either Waterloo, Victoria or Blackfriars.
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Post by WH241 on Jul 11, 2023 12:30:39 GMT
Oh look another round of pitting the working class against each other, but no disdain towards Fatcat CEO's who are earning £2k an hour. Not sure why anyone on here is looking down their noses at any other occupation. My wages and fares don't go hand in hand either... Obviously, the daily mail will tell you otherwise, then you'll come on the internet and be a keyboard warrior... Anyway, I look forward to reading more armchair comments. It’s not about being a keyboard warrior! But do you really think the majority will have sympathy? We are in the most of a cost of living crisis here you literally see people waiting in supermarkets for food to be reduced. I am pretty sure tube and train drivers have managed a lot better on 60k than others. I would love to know what you consider a fair increase would be! O and I don’t read the Daily Mail before you say it.
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Post by matthieu1221 on Jul 11, 2023 12:45:50 GMT
Aside from the different strike restrictions, I've finally figured out why this country doesn't get anywhere unlike in France. Comments here are very indicative of an inability to not pit one profession against another. Glad that back at home, people can generally see a bit further than their own professions and understand that they themselves might have to strike one day and will need support.
The fact that tube drivers are paid what they are, by the way, since it has been mentioned, is most likely not what is keeping other sectors underfunded and underpaid? The money 'saved' would very likely not be going to any better use.
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