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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Jul 20, 2023 19:37:25 GMT
Are you saying that 60K and free travel, with an eventual total package price around 95K isn't enough for a decent standard of living? regardless of how much an individual earns, they live within their means. For example, you would buy a house and have a mortgage based on what is affordable on the wage you earn. This would, of course, mean that a person earning more money may have a more expensive mortgage than a person who earns less, but would make up a similar percent of their income etc. There seems to be a bit of a misconception that train drivers earn *insert Daily Mail figure here* and they spend their days off like Scrooge McDuck diving into a swimming pool full of coins (n.b please don't try this at home,) or live in a house, very big house in the country. Railway staff etc, have bills to pay, need to put food on the table and make ends meet. Just because a person earns *re-insert Daily Mail figure here* doesn't mean they have any more disposable income than somebody who earns less money. If the interest rate pushes a mortgage up by a few hundred pounds, inflation pushes my food bills up, fuel costs increase etc then a pay increase should go some way to accommodate that. My petrol, mortgage, bills etc don't go up simply because someone works in a specific job. I know this affects a huge number of people, but maybe more unions need to make a stand. Do I agree with all grades expecting massive pay increases? Not necessarily, however,T&Cs and things like pensions could well be worth fighting for Anyway, this is my last comment on this. There are a lot of "misconceptions" about people who work on the railways on this thread and many of those with those misconceptions aren't really willing to take note of other things that have been said by those who work in the industry. Although it's at this point where if you can't afford to continue living the same lifestyle, you then start making sacrifices in order to do so just like everyone else is having to. Wages on the railways are too high for what they are and is kept artificially high by unionisation. Then not to mention the railways unions intentionally coordinate strikes to cause maximum disruption to the working people. In the medical field, the RCN and BMA said that at no point will nurses, consultants and junior doctors have their strikes coordinated as that would punish the people and result in the public suffering. Even with the RCN now stopping, the BMA is still keeping the consultant strikes and junior doctor strikes apart to ensure that neither overlap and cause detrimental effect on the people. The railway unions however do the complete opposite in order to make the working class suffer, just so their already excessively paid members can pocket even more money. It's useless hearing the opinion of people working on the railway regarding this matter as nobody is ever going to admit they're overpaid. It's not for them to decide that and it's clear the public have made their minds up. I hope one day anyone who's voted for strike action gets it back in their face, the way they've made innocent people suffer. They're no better than extinction rebellion, Insulate Britain or Just Stop Oil which is just ruining the lives of common people and causing terror among the working class themselves.
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Post by Alex on Jul 20, 2023 23:41:28 GMT
It's useless hearing the opinion of people working on the railway regarding this matter as nobody is ever going to admit they're overpaid. The financial report which came about as a result of this government funding issue indicated that LUL staff were actually being paid below market rates, and that was across the board. I don’t think station staff in particular would agree they’re overpaid. As mentioned on this thread the issue isn’t just contained to railway staff, the tanker driver situation a while back being an indicator that people in all sorts of essential jobs - such as driving things - need a decent wage and conditions in order for the rest of the country to function. I hope one day anyone who's voted for strike action gets it back in their face, the way they've made innocent people suffer. I hope this extends to teachers, post office workers, nurses and the various other people who have taken industrial action recently. They’ve had the same struggles with belligerent management/directors in recent times so have had to take extreme action because people don’t listen. I spot in an earlier post you’re a Biomedical Scientist. Well, so is my wife. She graduated in 2003 so is at the top of band 6. She went part time when our first daughter was born but her full time equivalent, bearing in mind her Inner London HCA is over £50k with the 5% pay rise. That’s not counting the days she’s asked to start early for embedding, for which she gets a 1/3 enhancement for in the hours before her start time. She doesn’t finish beyond 4 o’clock and works weekdays only and gets all her bank holidays off. For those sort of sociable hours she thinks it’s good enough, when I asked her if she would do the sort of hours public transport workers do she replied that she wouldn’t for twice the money. So I know myself the health service comparison doesn’t hold water (people tend to use nurses as an example and look what they’ve done recently), my wife’s manager is a band 9 which is very hefty. Admittedly my wife didn’t see the difference between BMS and being a Senior as worth the effort of doing her masters for, so she stays where she is. I wouldn’t normally have submitted such a post but feel it prudent to provide some balance, and to state that a lot of health workers aren’t at loggerheads with transport workers - I know many of my wife’s work friends and we all understand each other! It’s people like railway workers who are in a good position to bargain and level things up for others, and if there was more fight in other industries the economical flow would be so much better in this country with the cascade (people earn more - can buy more from X business - X can buy more from Y etc - very Fisher Price type example but see where the little and often works for a greater number instead of big business having all of it). In the seventies someone with a normal job like working for the council or as a railway ticket office clerk could get a semi-detached house in Barkingside or Purley (made up examples but representative) with no problems and people could have a normal, comfortable life. What’s gone wrong now? Greed and self interest is where it is, with an unfeeling government and no empathy between each other. As others have said on this thread, divide and divide more. It really needs to stop.
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Post by greenboy on Jul 21, 2023 5:23:18 GMT
It's useless hearing the opinion of people working on the railway regarding this matter as nobody is ever going to admit they're overpaid. The financial report which came about as a result of this government funding issue indicated that LUL staff were actually being paid below market rates, and that was across the board. I don’t think station staff in particular would agree they’re overpaid. As mentioned on this thread the issue isn’t just contained to railway staff, the tanker driver situation a while back being an indicator that people in all sorts of essential jobs - such as driving things - need a decent wage and conditions in order for the rest of the country to function. I hope one day anyone who's voted for strike action gets it back in their face, the way they've made innocent people suffer. I hope this extends to teachers, post office workers, nurses and the various other people who have taken industrial action recently. They’ve had the same struggles with belligerent management/directors in recent times so have had to take extreme action because people don’t listen. I spot in an earlier post you’re a Biomedical Scientist. Well, so is my wife. She graduated in 2003 so is at the top of band 6. She went part time when our first daughter was born but her full time equivalent, bearing in mind her Inner London HCA is over £50k with the 5% pay rise. That’s not counting the days she’s asked to start early for embedding, for which she gets a 1/3 enhancement for in the hours before her start time. She doesn’t finish beyond 4 o’clock and works weekdays only and gets all her bank holidays off. For those sort of sociable hours she thinks it’s good enough, when I asked her if she would do the sort of hours public transport workers do she replied that she wouldn’t for twice the money. So I know myself the health service comparison doesn’t hold water (people tend to use nurses as an example and look what they’ve done recently), my wife’s manager is a band 9 which is very hefty. Admittedly my wife didn’t see the difference between BMS and being a Senior as worth the effort of doing her masters for, so she stays where she is. I wouldn’t normally have submitted such a post but feel it prudent to provide some balance, and to state that a lot of health workers aren’t at loggerheads with transport workers - I know many of my wife’s work friends and we all understand each other! It’s people like railway workers who are in a good position to bargain and level things up for others, and if there was more fight in other industries the economical flow would be so much better in this country with the cascade (people earn more - can buy more from X business - X can buy more from Y etc - very Fisher Price type example but see where the little and often works for a greater number instead of big business having all of it). In the seventies someone with a normal job like working for the council or as a railway ticket office clerk could get a semi-detached house in Barkingside or Purley (made up examples but representative) with no problems and people could have a normal, comfortable life. What’s gone wrong now? Greed and self interest is where it is, with an unfeeling government and no empathy between each other. As others have said on this thread, divide and divide more. It really needs to stop. It's this pointless industrial action that needs to stop, a year of it has achieved nothing. Do you really think it would be any different under another government? The railway industry needs to modernise regardless of who is in office.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Jul 21, 2023 8:24:10 GMT
It's useless hearing the opinion of people working on the railway regarding this matter as nobody is ever going to admit they're overpaid. The financial report which came about as a result of this government funding issue indicated that LUL staff were actually being paid below market rates, and that was across the board. I don’t think station staff in particular would agree they’re overpaid. As mentioned on this thread the issue isn’t just contained to railway staff, the tanker driver situation a while back being an indicator that people in all sorts of essential jobs - such as driving things - need a decent wage and conditions in order for the rest of the country to function. I hope one day anyone who's voted for strike action gets it back in their face, the way they've made innocent people suffer. I hope this extends to teachers, post office workers, nurses and the various other people who have taken industrial action recently. They’ve had the same struggles with belligerent management/directors in recent times so have had to take extreme action because people don’t listen. I spot in an earlier post you’re a Biomedical Scientist. Well, so is my wife. She graduated in 2003 so is at the top of band 6. She went part time when our first daughter was born but her full time equivalent, bearing in mind her Inner London HCA is over £50k with the 5% pay rise. That’s not counting the days she’s asked to start early for embedding, for which she gets a 1/3 enhancement for in the hours before her start time. She doesn’t finish beyond 4 o’clock and works weekdays only and gets all her bank holidays off. For those sort of sociable hours she thinks it’s good enough, when I asked her if she would do the sort of hours public transport workers do she replied that she wouldn’t for twice the money. So I know myself the health service comparison doesn’t hold water (people tend to use nurses as an example and look what they’ve done recently), my wife’s manager is a band 9 which is very hefty. Admittedly my wife didn’t see the difference between BMS and being a Senior as worth the effort of doing her masters for, so she stays where she is. I wouldn’t normally have submitted such a post but feel it prudent to provide some balance, and to state that a lot of health workers aren’t at loggerheads with transport workers - I know many of my wife’s work friends and we all understand each other! It’s people like railway workers who are in a good position to bargain and level things up for others, and if there was more fight in other industries the economical flow would be so much better in this country with the cascade (people earn more - can buy more from X business - X can buy more from Y etc - very Fisher Price type example but see where the little and often works for a greater number instead of big business having all of it). In the seventies someone with a normal job like working for the council or as a railway ticket office clerk could get a semi-detached house in Barkingside or Purley (made up examples but representative) with no problems and people could have a normal, comfortable life. What’s gone wrong now? Greed and self interest is where it is, with an unfeeling government and no empathy between each other. As others have said on this thread, divide and divide more. It really needs to stop. I'd disagree, hours only makes up a small part of the equation. Embedding and cutting requires an immense level of skill and surgical precision that you need to develop skills over years for and constantly renew competence in order to be able to legally practice. The fact the job is 50K compared to the money a tube driver is earning is just ridiculous. The fact she, or any other BMS then requires a masters to progress further shows that skill is required here and justifies the higher salary.
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Post by Dstock7080 on Jul 21, 2023 10:37:15 GMT
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Post by Alex on Jul 21, 2023 18:17:59 GMT
I'd disagree, hours only makes up a small part of the equation. Embedding and cutting requires an immense level of skill and surgical precision that you need to develop skills over years for and constantly renew competence in order to be able to legally practice. The fact the job is 50K compared to the money a tube driver is earning is just ridiculous. The fact she, or any other BMS then requires a masters to progress further shows that skill is required here and justifies the higher salary. To be fair (and I feel a bit bad digging out the BMS salary, but so many others have digged out railway jobs so I went down that route) I can see that. I’ve heard all about paraffin blocks, formulin and cut up/immuno, and my wife has taken this as her own profession and a way of being. She doesn’t know any different in her working life and doesn’t want to do anything else. She’s doing her bit towards a service as am I. I like doing a good job for people but I don’t like unreasonable employers…… ….which leads to developments today. Many of the issues are dropped for the time being, so I’m happy people power has worked (for now at least). It also gives a better arrangement next week for many people though I expect some bus enthusiasts to be a bit gutted that random types and routes aren’t running as there’s no strike - you can never win!!!! I get the health service are in a quandary, delaying or cancelling treatment for people is (to me) a lot more harmful than anyone in transport can do delaying people and maybe other areas need to support where support is needed. The issue next week is off the table now so hopefully people are happy. I don’t like arguments or bad feeling so hopefully it’s finished for a bit : )
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Post by capitalomnibus on Jul 21, 2023 19:05:31 GMT
It's useless hearing the opinion of people working on the railway regarding this matter as nobody is ever going to admit they're overpaid. The financial report which came about as a result of this government funding issue indicated that LUL staff were actually being paid below market rates, and that was across the board. I don’t think station staff in particular would agree they’re overpaid. As mentioned on this thread the issue isn’t just contained to railway staff, the tanker driver situation a while back being an indicator that people in all sorts of essential jobs - such as driving things - need a decent wage and conditions in order for the rest of the country to function. I hope one day anyone who's voted for strike action gets it back in their face, the way they've made innocent people suffer. I hope this extends to teachers, post office workers, nurses and the various other people who have taken industrial action recently. They’ve had the same struggles with belligerent management/directors in recent times so have had to take extreme action because people don’t listen. I spot in an earlier post you’re a Biomedical Scientist. Well, so is my wife. She graduated in 2003 so is at the top of band 6. She went part time when our first daughter was born but her full time equivalent, bearing in mind her Inner London HCA is over £50k with the 5% pay rise. That’s not counting the days she’s asked to start early for embedding, for which she gets a 1/3 enhancement for in the hours before her start time. She doesn’t finish beyond 4 o’clock and works weekdays only and gets all her bank holidays off. For those sort of sociable hours she thinks it’s good enough, when I asked her if she would do the sort of hours public transport workers do she replied that she wouldn’t for twice the money. So I know myself the health service comparison doesn’t hold water (people tend to use nurses as an example and look what they’ve done recently), my wife’s manager is a band 9 which is very hefty. Admittedly my wife didn’t see the difference between BMS and being a Senior as worth the effort of doing her masters for, so she stays where she is. I wouldn’t normally have submitted such a post but feel it prudent to provide some balance, and to state that a lot of health workers aren’t at loggerheads with transport workers - I know many of my wife’s work friends and we all understand each other! It’s people like railway workers who are in a good position to bargain and level things up for others, and if there was more fight in other industries the economical flow would be so much better in this country with the cascade (people earn more - can buy more from X business - X can buy more from Y etc - very Fisher Price type example but see where the little and often works for a greater number instead of big business having all of it). In the seventies someone with a normal job like working for the council or as a railway ticket office clerk could get a semi-detached house in Barkingside or Purley (made up examples but representative) with no problems and people could have a normal, comfortable life. What’s gone wrong now? Greed and self interest is where it is, with an unfeeling government and no empathy between each other. As others have said on this thread, divide and divide more. It really needs to stop. One of the main reasons why they have come under fire, is they have used tactics by holding the public to ransom by using key event dates etc to strike on. If it were done on days not to cause maximum impact but would still cause mileage lost etc the public would be more sympathetic. The throw the toys out of the pram tactic that RMT has used time and time again when they can't get their way does not go down well.
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Post by Alex on Jul 21, 2023 22:33:27 GMT
I'd disagree, hours only makes up a small part of the equation. Embedding and cutting requires an immense level of skill and surgical precision that you need to develop skills over years for and constantly renew competence in order to be able to legally practice. The fact the job is 50K compared to the money a tube driver is earning is just ridiculous. The fact she, or any other BMS then requires a masters to progress further shows that skill is required here and justifies the higher salary. I know it’s a double quote but thanks for that as I can see it in the wife. I don’t know if this is a common thing but while she’s brainy at work she’s a proper s##t for brains at home. When recently sorting out our garden she didn’t know what a rake was or how a hose worked. But taking the BMS example, because of what I see I can relate to that. There’s also an example of pi## taking which she needs to watch out for. Sadly, her department was TUPEd into a company called HSL, but retaining NHS contracts. After years of working in North London hospitals she’s at a place known as 60WS (you might know where that is, nearest station Goodge Street). The gits held back the 5% rise and the £1400 that NHS were meant to have last year, and tried to do a deal whereby if HSL staff accepted a one off £500 they waived their old NHS conditions! It’s bloody unbelievable. These are university educated people yet some company tries to pull a cheap shot like that. I was appalled, apart from the Mickey take the staff have seen there’s obviously a culture of penny pinching over the right conditions and respect for staff. Needless to say his was kicked into touch by the workers. I know many don’t rate transport workers but the ones I know, and myself see all sorts of injustice and would like better for all. I’m lucky I’ve got my job and way of life but I truly recognise there’s many areas for improvement for all. I want to keep typing but need to seek solace YTing the Porridge film from 1979 which always levels me out : )
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Post by capitalomnibus on Jul 22, 2023 9:12:47 GMT
I'd disagree, hours only makes up a small part of the equation. Embedding and cutting requires an immense level of skill and surgical precision that you need to develop skills over years for and constantly renew competence in order to be able to legally practice. The fact the job is 50K compared to the money a tube driver is earning is just ridiculous. The fact she, or any other BMS then requires a masters to progress further shows that skill is required here and justifies the higher salary. I know it’s a double quote but thanks for that as I can see it in the wife. I don’t know if this is a common thing but while she’s brainy at work she’s a proper s##t for brains at home. When recently sorting out our garden she didn’t know what a rake was or how a hose worked.
But taking the BMS example, because of what I see I can relate to that. There’s also an example of pi## taking which she needs to watch out for. Sadly, her department was TUPEd into a company called HSL, but retaining NHS contracts. After years of working in North London hospitals she’s at a place known as 60WS (you might know where that is, nearest station Goodge Street). The gits held back the 5% rise and the £1400 that NHS were meant to have last year, and tried to do a deal whereby if HSL staff accepted a one off £500 they waived their old NHS conditions! It’s bloody unbelievable. These are university educated people yet some company tries to pull a cheap shot like that. I was appalled, apart from the Mickey take the staff have seen there’s obviously a culture of penny pinching over the right conditions and respect for staff. Needless to say his was kicked into touch by the workers. I know many don’t rate transport workers but the ones I know, and myself see all sorts of injustice and would like better for all. I’m lucky I’ve got my job and way of life but I truly recognise there’s many areas for improvement for all. I want to keep typing but need to seek solace YTing the Porridge film from 1979 which always levels me out : ) BAHAHAHAHA really, in this day and age, seriously. That is hilarious.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Jul 22, 2023 10:00:33 GMT
I'd disagree, hours only makes up a small part of the equation. Embedding and cutting requires an immense level of skill and surgical precision that you need to develop skills over years for and constantly renew competence in order to be able to legally practice. The fact the job is 50K compared to the money a tube driver is earning is just ridiculous. The fact she, or any other BMS then requires a masters to progress further shows that skill is required here and justifies the higher salary. I know it’s a double quote but thanks for that as I can see it in the wife. I don’t know if this is a common thing but while she’s brainy at work she’s a proper s##t for brains at home. When recently sorting out our garden she didn’t know what a rake was or how a hose worked. But taking the BMS example, because of what I see I can relate to that. There’s also an example of pi## taking which she needs to watch out for. Sadly, her department was TUPEd into a company called HSL, but retaining NHS contracts. After years of working in North London hospitals she’s at a place known as 60WS (you might know where that is, nearest station Goodge Street). The gits held back the 5% rise and the £1400 that NHS were meant to have last year, and tried to do a deal whereby if HSL staff accepted a one off £500 they waived their old NHS conditions! It’s bloody unbelievable. These are university educated people yet some company tries to pull a cheap shot like that. I was appalled, apart from the Mickey take the staff have seen there’s obviously a culture of penny pinching over the right conditions and respect for staff. Needless to say his was kicked into touch by the workers. I know many don’t rate transport workers but the ones I know, and myself see all sorts of injustice and would like better for all. I’m lucky I’ve got my job and way of life but I truly recognise there’s many areas for improvement for all. I want to keep typing but need to seek solace YTing the Porridge film from 1979 which always levels me out : ) Ahhh yes HSL, the Go Ahead London of the laboratory industry. Every couple of years work tends to be tendered out by certain trusts and in most cases, at least north of the river if its not internal NHS then you can bet HSL will be who wins it. What makes this interesting is out of all the private companies taking over, HSL is said to be the best by a huge mile. They're often investing in staff and have quite good staff retention, always allowing people to move up the ladder and eventually reach consultancy or senior management.
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Post by greenboy on Jul 22, 2023 11:50:21 GMT
I'd disagree, hours only makes up a small part of the equation. Embedding and cutting requires an immense level of skill and surgical precision that you need to develop skills over years for and constantly renew competence in order to be able to legally practice. The fact the job is 50K compared to the money a tube driver is earning is just ridiculous. The fact she, or any other BMS then requires a masters to progress further shows that skill is required here and justifies the higher salary. I know it’s a double quote but thanks for that as I can see it in the wife. I don’t know if this is a common thing but while she’s brainy at work she’s a proper s##t for brains at home. When recently sorting out our garden she didn’t know what a rake was or how a hose worked. But taking the BMS example, because of what I see I can relate to that. There’s also an example of pi## taking which she needs to watch out for. Sadly, her department was TUPEd into a company called HSL, but retaining NHS contracts. After years of working in North London hospitals she’s at a place known as 60WS (you might know where that is, nearest station Goodge Street). The gits held back the 5% rise and the £1400 that NHS were meant to have last year, and tried to do a deal whereby if HSL staff accepted a one off £500 they waived their old NHS conditions! It’s bloody unbelievable. These are university educated people yet some company tries to pull a cheap shot like that. I was appalled, apart from the Mickey take the staff have seen there’s obviously a culture of penny pinching over the right conditions and respect for staff. Needless to say his was kicked into touch by the workers. I know many don’t rate transport workers but the ones I know, and myself see all sorts of injustice and would like better for all. I’m lucky I’ve got my job and way of life but I truly recognise there’s many areas for improvement for all. I want to keep typing but need to seek solace YTing the Porridge film from 1979 which always levels me out : ) I'm not much of a gardener but even I would know how to use a rake and a hose. It's not a matter of many people not rating transport workers, it's just that they're not going to have much sympathy with the RMT.
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Post by richard on Jul 22, 2023 14:03:58 GMT
Not sure if it's been mentioned but this week's strikes have been suspended
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Post by Alex on Jul 30, 2023 22:13:49 GMT
Ahhh yes HSL, the Go Ahead London of the laboratory industry. Every couple of years work tends to be tendered out by certain trusts and in most cases, at least north of the river if its not internal NHS then you can bet HSL will be who wins it. What makes this interesting is out of all the private companies taking over, HSL is said to be the best by a huge mile. They're often investing in staff and Mhave quite good staff retention, always allowing people to move up the ladder and eventually reach consultancy or senior management. Sorry to bump this thread a bit, but not been on for a few days and wanted to acknowledge the post. Yes, a lab version of GAL seems a good analogy. My wife sees her days at North Mid very much as the glory days, then HSL got involved, shut the lab at NMUH and sent everyone to Royal Free. That was her low point, she sees 60WS as a vast improvement on RF. I had second thoughts about the rake story after I sent it, I was in a chatty mood and just writing down what was flowing at the time - I didn't want it to come across as that applying to any other BMS staff! Indeed I had to Google a rake on the phone and show her the picture. Thinking about the strikes being called off, it was a really good job they were. The Elizabeth line was completely totalled last week, it was a real mess. The timing of suspending the action worked out well there. Just hope nothing else goes wrong soon
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Post by northlondon83 on Jul 31, 2023 7:56:08 GMT
Ahhh yes HSL, the Go Ahead London of the laboratory industry. Every couple of years work tends to be tendered out by certain trusts and in most cases, at least north of the river if its not internal NHS then you can bet HSL will be who wins it. What makes this interesting is out of all the private companies taking over, HSL is said to be the best by a huge mile. They're often investing in staff and Mhave quite good staff retention, always allowing people to move up the ladder and eventually reach consultancy or senior management. Sorry to bump this thread a bit, but not been on for a few days and wanted to acknowledge the post. Yes, a lab version of GAL seems a good analogy. My wife sees her days at North Mid very much as the glory days, then HSL got involved, shut the lab at NMUH and sent everyone to Royal Free. That was her low point, she sees 60WS as a vast improvement on RF. I had second thoughts about the rake story after I sent it, I was in a chatty mood and just writing down what was flowing at the time - I didn't want it to come across as that applying to any other BMS staff! Indeed I had to Google a rake on the phone and show her the picture. Thinking about the strikes being called off, it was a really good job they were. The Elizabeth line was completely totalled last week, it was a real mess. The timing of suspending the action worked out well there. Just hope nothing else goes wrong soon I had to make a journey by bus on Wednesday, which was one of the planned strike days. although it was through the tubeless parts of SW London, I'd imagine the buses would have been rammed especially most places where there is the tube
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Post by capitalomnibus on Aug 10, 2023 8:25:08 GMT
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