|
Post by Alex on Jul 11, 2023 20:40:21 GMT
Hello there, my first post of the year - I usually just read bits and pieces on the forum but I’ll make an exception for this thread.
The strikes mentioned are not principally about pay or just the driver grade as some posts on here seem to indicate. There’s quite a few issues running in tandem which include pension changes, a proposed new attendance at work policy, changes to driver rostering & agreements and changes to station staff numbers and coverage. There are many other areas of complaint on multiple levels which add to the concerns people have presently.
Now, you could think that this is the nature of any business and sometimes things need to change - however - the organisation themselves have quite widely publicised that their post-pandemic recovery is much better than they thought, and they’re in a position to make a surplus at the end of this financial year. That’s a surplus on the current model which indicates there is enough money going around and begs the question of why anything actually needs to change?
What would the public see from these changes and corresponding saved money? Well, the organisation definitely won’t reduce fares so it’ll be a more expensive outlay for a worse service, with less station staff (there aren’t enough now) and a more unsafe environment on stations & trains. The proposed trains cover model is totally unworkable with the removal of any recovery margins/measures meaning that after any delays/incidents the train service will be decimated. A lot of the trains will be in depots because the required staff won’t be there, even normal everyday issues would see the potential for drastically reduced services.
What’s being proposed would completely ruin the lives of many staff, the flexible coverage model for trains that’s been drafted would cause so much stress and fatigue (akin to a model that was proposed and kicked out on British Rail way back in 1982 - if it wasn’t acceptable 40 years ago how can it be how?) and stations with increasing passenger numbers would have less staff. The train service disruption would have further knock on effects to stress levels for those in control rooms and of course create an even more volatile environment for station staff.
Things are not easy now with coverage so tight and with everything being turned upside down - including all agreements and recognised practices being put in the bin - this is causing much upset and the ballot returns have reflected this. When you add the proposed attendance procedure, where someone is classed as being long-term sick after just seven days (yes, that’s right - anything above a self cert) this would cause tremendous pressure and affect the health of many many people.
RMT is heavily involved with the ‘Enough is Enough’ campaign. I can imagine there are people out there who see other jobs having harsh conditions, hours, pay rates and workplace practices and wonder why rail workers should be different. The thing is they shouldn’t be and that’s what Enough is Enough is all about, and why the government didn’t want RMT to win the main line rail dispute and set a precedent for people everywhere to expect better. Enough is Enough have employed economists to carry out studies to prove what most people know anyway - that there is enough money in this country but it’s all in the wrong places. Models have shown that a redistribution exercise to benefit a far wider group of people is perfectly feasible and would be workable to implement. Industrial action such as discussed on this thread is representative of the mood over the whole country and I see a lot of support between people of different industries.
I have in-laws on the buses in London and my mother as well as my wife both work for the NHS, so I see the battles taking place and am constantly saddened at the conditions for many people. We’ve had a race-to-the-bottom culture for too long now due to corporate greed and a lot of people in this country have their eyes open to it now and agree there needs to be a change. I’d support anyone taking action in any industry right now as the ‘Broken Britain’ tag is very very true with many in horrible situations not of their own making. People everywhere really have had enough.
|
|
|
Post by northlondon83 on Jul 11, 2023 20:53:22 GMT
Hello there, my first post of the year - I usually just read bits and pieces on the forum but I’ll make an exception for this thread. The strikes mentioned are not principally about pay or just the driver grade as some posts on here seem to indicate. There’s quite a few issues running in tandem which include pension changes, a proposed new attendance at work policy, changes to driver rostering & agreements and changes to station staff numbers and coverage. There are many other areas of complaint on multiple levels which add to the concerns people have presently. Now, you could think that this is the nature of any business and sometimes things need to change - however - the organisation themselves have quite widely publicised that their post-pandemic recovery is much better than they thought, and they’re in a position to make a surplus at the end of this financial year. That’s a surplus on the current model which indicates there is enough money going around and begs the question of why anything actually needs to change? What would the public see from these changes and corresponding saved money? Well, the organisation definitely won’t reduce fares so it’ll be a more expensive outlay for a worse service, with less station staff (there aren’t enough now) and a more unsafe environment on stations & trains. The proposed trains cover model is totally unworkable with the removal of any recovery margins/measures meaning that after any delays/incidents the train service will be decimated. A lot of the trains will be in depots because the required staff won’t be there, even normal everyday issues would see the potential for drastically reduced services. What’s being proposed would completely ruin the lives of many staff, the flexible coverage model for trains that’s been drafted would cause so much stress and fatigue (akin to a model that was proposed and kicked out on British Rail way back in 1982 - if it wasn’t acceptable 40 years ago how can it be how?) and stations with increasing passenger numbers would have less staff. The train service disruption would have further knock on effects to stress levels for those in control rooms and of course create an even more volatile environment for station staff. Things are not easy now with coverage so tight and with everything being turned upside down - including all agreements and recognised practices being put in the bin - this is causing much upset and the ballot returns have reflected this. When you add the proposed attendance procedure, where someone is classed as being long-term sick after just seven days (yes, that’s right - anything above a self cert) this would cause tremendous pressure and affect the health of many many people. RMT is heavily involved with the ‘Enough is Enough’ campaign. I can imagine there are people out there who see other jobs having harsh conditions, hours, pay rates and workplace practices and wonder why rail workers should be different. The thing is they shouldn’t be and that’s what Enough is Enough is all about, and why the government didn’t want RMT to win the main line rail dispute and set a precedent for people everywhere to expect better. Enough is Enough have employed economists to carry out studies to prove what most people know anyway - that there is enough money in this country but it’s all in the wrong places. Models have shown that a redistribution exercise to benefit a far wider group of people is perfectly feasible and would be workable to implement. Industrial action such as discussed on this thread is representative of the mood over the whole country and I see a lot of support between people of different industries. I have in-laws on the buses in London and my mother as well as my wife both work for the NHS, so I see the battles taking place and am constantly saddened at the conditions for many people. We’ve had a race-to-the-bottom culture for too long now due to corporate greed and a lot of people in this country have their eyes open to it now and agree there needs to be a change. I’d support anyone taking action in any industry right now as the ‘Broken Britain’ tag is very very true with many in horrible situations not of their own making. People everywhere really have had enough. Can you elaborate on some of the things you said like: Attendance at work policy Changes to driver rostering What is changing for staff working on the underground and rail I'm not anti train driver but I do think that our railways are in decline partly due to the issues of cutting station staff. However train drivers earn a considerable amount of money especially comparing to bus drivers, who I'd say has an easier job than driving a bus. Most professions don't pay £60k a year. Regarding the NHS it's been overwhelmed ever since Covid and even without the virus the situation is still bad. My mum works in the NHS, she works 12 hour days and sometimes nights. I know that train drivers also do shift patterns like starting at 5am and finishing at 1.30am. it's not the easiest job in the world.
|
|
|
Post by ibus246 on Jul 11, 2023 20:55:46 GMT
Hello there, my first post of the year - I usually just read bits and pieces on the forum but I’ll make an exception for this thread. The strikes mentioned are not principally about pay or just the driver grade as some posts on here seem to indicate. There’s quite a few issues running in tandem which include pension changes, a proposed new attendance at work policy, changes to driver rostering & agreements and changes to station staff numbers and coverage. There are many other areas of complaint on multiple levels which add to the concerns people have presently. Now, you could think that this is the nature of any business and sometimes things need to change - however - the organisation themselves have quite widely publicised that their post-pandemic recovery is much better than they thought, and they’re in a position to make a surplus at the end of this financial year. That’s a surplus on the current model which indicates there is enough money going around and begs the question of why anything actually needs to change? What would the public see from these changes and corresponding saved money? Well, the organisation definitely won’t reduce fares so it’ll be a more expensive outlay for a worse service, with less station staff (there aren’t enough now) and a more unsafe environment on stations & trains. The proposed trains cover model is totally unworkable with the removal of any recovery margins/measures meaning that after any delays/incidents the train service will be decimated. A lot of the trains will be in depots because the required staff won’t be there, even normal everyday issues would see the potential for drastically reduced services. What’s being proposed would completely ruin the lives of many staff, the flexible coverage model for trains that’s been drafted would cause so much stress and fatigue (akin to a model that was proposed and kicked out on British Rail way back in 1982 - if it wasn’t acceptable 40 years ago how can it be how?) and stations with increasing passenger numbers would have less staff. The train service disruption would have further knock on effects to stress levels for those in control rooms and of course create an even more volatile environment for station staff. Things are not easy now with coverage so tight and with everything being turned upside down - including all agreements and recognised practices being put in the bin - this is causing much upset and the ballot returns have reflected this. When you add the proposed attendance procedure, where someone is classed as being long-term sick after just seven days (yes, that’s right - anything above a self cert) this would cause tremendous pressure and affect the health of many many people. RMT is heavily involved with the ‘Enough is Enough’ campaign. I can imagine there are people out there who see other jobs having harsh conditions, hours, pay rates and workplace practices and wonder why rail workers should be different. The thing is they shouldn’t be and that’s what Enough is Enough is all about, and why the government didn’t want RMT to win the main line rail dispute and set a precedent for people everywhere to expect better. Enough is Enough have employed economists to carry out studies to prove what most people know anyway - that there is enough money in this country but it’s all in the wrong places. Models have shown that a redistribution exercise to benefit a far wider group of people is perfectly feasible and would be workable to implement. Industrial action such as discussed on this thread is representative of the mood over the whole country and I see a lot of support between people of different industries. I have in-laws on the buses in London and my mother as well as my wife both work for the NHS, so I see the battles taking place and am constantly saddened at the conditions for many people. We’ve had a race-to-the-bottom culture for too long now due to corporate greed and a lot of people in this country have their eyes open to it now and agree there needs to be a change. I’d support anyone taking action in any industry right now as the ‘Broken Britain’ tag is very very true with many in horrible situations not of their own making. People everywhere really have had enough. No offence but whenever striking workers/unions say that XYZ WILL happen such as in your example that “a lot of the trains will be in the depot” and “a more unsafe environment” I take zero notice. Anyone remember the big fuss that was made (by unions) when the “conductor” was being removed from southern services about 5 years ago? “They’ll be more casualties”, “drive only operation is unsafe and lethal” etc etc etc etc has there been any such problems? I think not. So please, let’s not dramatise to try to convince the public that unions even care. As I’ve said before let whoever wants to go on strike go on strike and hopefully they’ll strike themselves out of a job.
|
|
|
Post by Alex on Jul 11, 2023 21:08:42 GMT
Can you elaborate on some of the things you said like: Attendance at work policy Changes to driver rostering What is changing for staff working on the underground and rail I'm not anti train driver but I do think that our railways are in decline partly due to the issues of cutting station staff. However train drivers earn a considerable amount of money especially comparing to bus drivers, who I'd say has an easier job than driving a bus. Most professions don't pay £60k a year. Regarding the NHS it's been overwhelmed ever since Covid and even without the virus the situation is still bad. My mum works in the NHS, she works 12 hour days and sometimes nights. I know that train drivers also do shift patterns like starting at 5am and finishing at 1.30am. it's not the easiest job in the world. I’ll see if I can find some links for those as it’s a lot of writing (!) but agree cutting station staff is a bad idea, agree the NHS doesn’t get anywhere near the support it needs, and that 1% pay rise after the pandemic was an absolute Michael take. Bus driving shifts are worse than the hours you mention on the trains - the most extreme examples I can think of is the first 158 duty booking on at 02:45 when at WH and a PD night duty which booked on at 01:00 and finished at 10:00 with its second half as a rush hour daytime 53 (the first bit was two rounders on night 53). That sort of stuff really shouldn’t be allowed - the vast majority of people wouldn’t be able to function properly with those sort of hours. Freight train driving and some TOC work has some seriously weird hours too. As I’ve said before let whoever wants to go on strike go on strike and hopefully they’ll strike themselves out of a job. That would be quite a lot of people all over the place though, we’ve seen rail staff, bus drivers, nurses, teachers, postal workers, even Amazon workers all taking action recently…..
|
|
|
Post by greenboy on Jul 11, 2023 21:23:33 GMT
Hello there, my first post of the year - I usually just read bits and pieces on the forum but I’ll make an exception for this thread. The strikes mentioned are not principally about pay or just the driver grade as some posts on here seem to indicate. There’s quite a few issues running in tandem which include pension changes, a proposed new attendance at work policy, changes to driver rostering & agreements and changes to station staff numbers and coverage. There are many other areas of complaint on multiple levels which add to the concerns people have presently. Now, you could think that this is the nature of any business and sometimes things need to change - however - the organisation themselves have quite widely publicised that their post-pandemic recovery is much better than they thought, and they’re in a position to make a surplus at the end of this financial year. That’s a surplus on the current model which indicates there is enough money going around and begs the question of why anything actually needs to change? What would the public see from these changes and corresponding saved money? Well, the organisation definitely won’t reduce fares so it’ll be a more expensive outlay for a worse service, with less station staff (there aren’t enough now) and a more unsafe environment on stations & trains. The proposed trains cover model is totally unworkable with the removal of any recovery margins/measures meaning that after any delays/incidents the train service will be decimated. A lot of the trains will be in depots because the required staff won’t be there, even normal everyday issues would see the potential for drastically reduced services. What’s being proposed would completely ruin the lives of many staff, the flexible coverage model for trains that’s been drafted would cause so much stress and fatigue (akin to a model that was proposed and kicked out on British Rail way back in 1982 - if it wasn’t acceptable 40 years ago how can it be how?) and stations with increasing passenger numbers would have less staff. The train service disruption would have further knock on effects to stress levels for those in control rooms and of course create an even more volatile environment for station staff. Things are not easy now with coverage so tight and with everything being turned upside down - including all agreements and recognised practices being put in the bin - this is causing much upset and the ballot returns have reflected this. When you add the proposed attendance procedure, where someone is classed as being long-term sick after just seven days (yes, that’s right - anything above a self cert) this would cause tremendous pressure and affect the health of many many people. RMT is heavily involved with the ‘Enough is Enough’ campaign. I can imagine there are people out there who see other jobs having harsh conditions, hours, pay rates and workplace practices and wonder why rail workers should be different. The thing is they shouldn’t be and that’s what Enough is Enough is all about, and why the government didn’t want RMT to win the main line rail dispute and set a precedent for people everywhere to expect better. Enough is Enough have employed economists to carry out studies to prove what most people know anyway - that there is enough money in this country but it’s all in the wrong places. Models have shown that a redistribution exercise to benefit a far wider group of people is perfectly feasible and would be workable to implement. Industrial action such as discussed on this thread is representative of the mood over the whole country and I see a lot of support between people of different industries. I have in-laws on the buses in London and my mother as well as my wife both work for the NHS, so I see the battles taking place and am constantly saddened at the conditions for many people. We’ve had a race-to-the-bottom culture for too long now due to corporate greed and a lot of people in this country have their eyes open to it now and agree there needs to be a change. I’d support anyone taking action in any industry right now as the ‘Broken Britain’ tag is very very true with many in horrible situations not of their own making. People everywhere really have had enough. Whilst there may be some justified greavances about pensions etc, rail unions really have cried wolf so many times that most people really aren't interested anymore, as mentioned in a previous post wasn't the removal conductors supposed to be a disaster? Well that doesn't seem to have happened unless I've missed something. You say there aren't enough station staff now, whilst that may be the case in some locations it's not unusual to see excessive numbers of staff at some stations doing very little apart from standing around chatting. If train driving jobs were advertised in the job centres they would be swamped with applicants. I also know people who work in the NHS and they do have cause for complaint and perhaps not surprisingly they get a lot more public sympathy. Obviously times are difficult at the moment and the cost of the pandemic cannot just be left for future generations to deal with. I don't go along with this 'broken Britain' stuff, I think that's just negative hyperbole. Whilst things are difficult at the moment it's amazing how many people want to come here.
|
|
|
Post by northlondon83 on Jul 11, 2023 21:25:01 GMT
Hello there, my first post of the year - I usually just read bits and pieces on the forum but I’ll make an exception for this thread. The strikes mentioned are not principally about pay or just the driver grade as some posts on here seem to indicate. There’s quite a few issues running in tandem which include pension changes, a proposed new attendance at work policy, changes to driver rostering & agreements and changes to station staff numbers and coverage. There are many other areas of complaint on multiple levels which add to the concerns people have presently. Now, you could think that this is the nature of any business and sometimes things need to change - however - the organisation themselves have quite widely publicised that their post-pandemic recovery is much better than they thought, and they’re in a position to make a surplus at the end of this financial year. That’s a surplus on the current model which indicates there is enough money going around and begs the question of why anything actually needs to change? What would the public see from these changes and corresponding saved money? Well, the organisation definitely won’t reduce fares so it’ll be a more expensive outlay for a worse service, with less station staff (there aren’t enough now) and a more unsafe environment on stations & trains. The proposed trains cover model is totally unworkable with the removal of any recovery margins/measures meaning that after any delays/incidents the train service will be decimated. A lot of the trains will be in depots because the required staff won’t be there, even normal everyday issues would see the potential for drastically reduced services. What’s being proposed would completely ruin the lives of many staff, the flexible coverage model for trains that’s been drafted would cause so much stress and fatigue (akin to a model that was proposed and kicked out on British Rail way back in 1982 - if it wasn’t acceptable 40 years ago how can it be how?) and stations with increasing passenger numbers would have less staff. The train service disruption would have further knock on effects to stress levels for those in control rooms and of course create an even more volatile environment for station staff. Things are not easy now with coverage so tight and with everything being turned upside down - including all agreements and recognised practices being put in the bin - this is causing much upset and the ballot returns have reflected this. When you add the proposed attendance procedure, where someone is classed as being long-term sick after just seven days (yes, that’s right - anything above a self cert) this would cause tremendous pressure and affect the health of many many people. RMT is heavily involved with the ‘Enough is Enough’ campaign. I can imagine there are people out there who see other jobs having harsh conditions, hours, pay rates and workplace practices and wonder why rail workers should be different. The thing is they shouldn’t be and that’s what Enough is Enough is all about, and why the government didn’t want RMT to win the main line rail dispute and set a precedent for people everywhere to expect better. Enough is Enough have employed economists to carry out studies to prove what most people know anyway - that there is enough money in this country but it’s all in the wrong places. Models have shown that a redistribution exercise to benefit a far wider group of people is perfectly feasible and would be workable to implement. Industrial action such as discussed on this thread is representative of the mood over the whole country and I see a lot of support between people of different industries. I have in-laws on the buses in London and my mother as well as my wife both work for the NHS, so I see the battles taking place and am constantly saddened at the conditions for many people. We’ve had a race-to-the-bottom culture for too long now due to corporate greed and a lot of people in this country have their eyes open to it now and agree there needs to be a change. I’d support anyone taking action in any industry right now as the ‘Broken Britain’ tag is very very true with many in horrible situations not of their own making. People everywhere really have had enough. No offence but whenever striking workers/unions say that XYZ WILL happen such as in your example that “a lot of the trains will be in the depot” and “a more unsafe environment” I take zero notice. Anyone remember the big fuss that was made (by unions) when the “conductor” was being removed from southern services about 5 years ago? “They’ll be more casualties”, “drive only operation is unsafe and lethal” etc etc etc etc has there been any such problems? I think not. So please, let’s not dramatise to try to convince the public that unions even care. As I’ve said before let whoever wants to go on strike go on strike and hopefully they’ll strike themselves out of a job. I think that saying that workers who want to go on strike should quit their job is a little extreme. I don't support the strikes but at the same time London would grind to a halt without tube and rail drivers.
|
|
|
Post by northlondon83 on Jul 11, 2023 21:29:21 GMT
Can you elaborate on some of the things you said like: Attendance at work policy Changes to driver rostering What is changing for staff working on the underground and rail I'm not anti train driver but I do think that our railways are in decline partly due to the issues of cutting station staff. However train drivers earn a considerable amount of money especially comparing to bus drivers, who I'd say has an easier job than driving a bus. Most professions don't pay £60k a year. Regarding the NHS it's been overwhelmed ever since Covid and even without the virus the situation is still bad. My mum works in the NHS, she works 12 hour days and sometimes nights. I know that train drivers also do shift patterns like starting at 5am and finishing at 1.30am. it's not the easiest job in the world. I’ll see if I can find some links for those as it’s a lot of writing (!) but agree cutting station staff is a bad idea, agree the NHS doesn’t get anywhere near the support it needs, and that 1% pay rise after the pandemic was an absolute Michael take. Bus driving shifts are worse than the hours you mention on the trains - the most extreme examples I can think of is the first 158 duty booking on at 02:45 when at WH and a PD night duty which booked on at 01:00 and finished at 10:00 with its second half as a rush hour daytime 53 (the first bit was two rounders on night 53). That sort of stuff really shouldn’t be allowed - the vast majority of people wouldn’t be able to function properly with those sort of hours. Freight train driving and some TOC work has some seriously weird hours too. As I’ve said before let whoever wants to go on strike go on strike and hopefully they’ll strike themselves out of a job. That would be quite a lot of people all over the place though, we’ve seen rail staff, bus drivers, nurses, teachers, postal workers, even Amazon workers all taking action recently….. Not sure how it works with bus and train driver rotas but I'd imagine the working day is longer for bus drivers and as you said can be all over the place, from earlies to lates to nights as well. Pretty sure the standard tube shift would be 8 hours a day x5 days a week but I could be wrong. Buses I believe would be longer hours and more consecutive days with lower pay but I could be wrong.
|
|
|
Post by ibus246 on Jul 11, 2023 21:32:22 GMT
No offence but whenever striking workers/unions say that XYZ WILL happen such as in your example that “a lot of the trains will be in the depot” and “a more unsafe environment” I take zero notice. Anyone remember the big fuss that was made (by unions) when the “conductor” was being removed from southern services about 5 years ago? “They’ll be more casualties”, “drive only operation is unsafe and lethal” etc etc etc etc has there been any such problems? I think not. So please, let’s not dramatise to try to convince the public that unions even care. As I’ve said before let whoever wants to go on strike go on strike and hopefully they’ll strike themselves out of a job. I think that saying that workers who want to go on strike should quit their job is a little extreme. I don't support the strikes but at the same time London would grind to a halt without tube and rail drivers. So will London grind to a halt in the next couple of weeks? Obviously long term, yes.
|
|
|
Post by ibus246 on Jul 11, 2023 21:32:50 GMT
Can you elaborate on some of the things you said like: Attendance at work policy Changes to driver rostering What is changing for staff working on the underground and rail I'm not anti train driver but I do think that our railways are in decline partly due to the issues of cutting station staff. However train drivers earn a considerable amount of money especially comparing to bus drivers, who I'd say has an easier job than driving a bus. Most professions don't pay £60k a year. Regarding the NHS it's been overwhelmed ever since Covid and even without the virus the situation is still bad. My mum works in the NHS, she works 12 hour days and sometimes nights. I know that train drivers also do shift patterns like starting at 5am and finishing at 1.30am. it's not the easiest job in the world. I’ll see if I can find some links for those as it’s a lot of writing (!) but agree cutting station staff is a bad idea, agree the NHS doesn’t get anywhere near the support it needs, and that 1% pay rise after the pandemic was an absolute Michael take. Bus driving shifts are worse than the hours you mention on the trains - the most extreme examples I can think of is the first 158 duty booking on at 02:45 when at WH and a PD night duty which booked on at 01:00 and finished at 10:00 with its second half as a rush hour daytime 53 (the first bit was two rounders on night 53). That sort of stuff really shouldn’t be allowed - the vast majority of people wouldn’t be able to function properly with those sort of hours. Freight train driving and some TOC work has some seriously weird hours too. As I’ve said before let whoever wants to go on strike go on strike and hopefully they’ll strike themselves out of a job. That would be quite a lot of people all over the place though, we’ve seen rail staff, bus drivers, nurses, teachers, postal workers, even Amazon workers all taking action recently….. Sorry, my post was in relation to rail workers
|
|
|
Post by northlondon83 on Jul 11, 2023 21:39:59 GMT
I think that saying that workers who want to go on strike should quit their job is a little extreme. I don't support the strikes but at the same time London would grind to a halt without tube and rail drivers. So will London grind to a halt in the next couple of weeks? Obviously long term, yes. With the upcoming strikes people will be able to find another method of transport however it has negative implications. On 15 March on my way home from work the 168 was packed like sardines that you could barely fit in the door. The 31 in Chalk Farm was non existent. So in essence yes. Other services will struggle without the tube. It's like if you took away the NHS or the Post Office the country would not be able to cope even if it was just for a day
|
|
|
Post by greenboy on Jul 11, 2023 21:46:49 GMT
So will London grind to a halt in the next couple of weeks? Obviously long term, yes. With the upcoming strikes people will be able to find another method of transport however it has negative implications. On 15 March on my way home from work the 168 was packed like sardines that you could barely fit in the door. The 31 in Chalk Farm was non existent. So in essence yes. Other services will struggle without the tube. It's like if you took away the NHS or the Post Office the country would not be able to cope even if it was just for a day And cycling becomes ever more popular...
|
|
|
Post by Dstock7080 on Jul 12, 2023 5:24:19 GMT
Not sure how it works with bus and train driver rotas but I'd imagine the working day is longer for bus drivers and as you said can be all over the place, from earlies to lates to nights as well. Pretty sure the standard tube shift would be 8 hours a day x5 days a week but I could be wrong. Buses I believe would be longer hours and more consecutive days with lower pay but I could be wrong. Currently: average 36hr/5 day week maximum 8hr30 (30min unpaid M/R) early late night shifts No remote booking on.
|
|
|
Post by joefrombow on Jul 12, 2023 6:27:22 GMT
Aside from the different strike restrictions, I've finally figured out why this country doesn't get anywhere unlike in France. Comments here are very indicative of an inability to not pit one profession against another. Glad that back at home, people can generally see a bit further than their own professions and understand that they themselves might have to strike one day and will need support. The fact that tube drivers are paid what they are, by the way, since it has been mentioned, is most likely not what is keeping other sectors underfunded and underpaid? The money 'saved' would very likely not be going to any better use. Exactly the same argument with the £350 Million that will go to the NHS from leaving the EU , Thing is a lot of people here in the UK are unfortunately short sighted and see things as "I don't get ex amount of money so why should Tube/Train drivers" , these strikes aren't even about baseline pay it's about pensions and working conditions but people will always bang on about pay and the media owned largely by people who pay literally zero tax here seems to dictate what a large number of people think but most people are too brainwashed too see it , especially sad to see when it's working classes being pitted against eachother or blaming migrants for every single problem but what can you do As for the future though with CBTC/ATO and AI/Mobile ticketing etc over the next 10/15 years there will be major changes to all modes of transport I believe and almost every industry so strikes are going to become more commonplace in a lot of industries.
|
|
|
Post by greenboy on Jul 12, 2023 6:52:41 GMT
Aside from the different strike restrictions, I've finally figured out why this country doesn't get anywhere unlike in France. Comments here are very indicative of an inability to not pit one profession against another. Glad that back at home, people can generally see a bit further than their own professions and understand that they themselves might have to strike one day and will need support. The fact that tube drivers are paid what they are, by the way, since it has been mentioned, is most likely not what is keeping other sectors underfunded and underpaid? The money 'saved' would very likely not be going to any better use. Exactly the same argument with the £350 Million that will go to the NHS from leaving the EU , Thing is a lot of people here in the UK are unfortunately short sighted and see things as "I don't get ex amount of money so why should Tube/Train drivers" , these strikes aren't even about baseline pay it's about pensions and working conditions but people will always bang on about pay and the media owned largely by people who pay literally zero tax here seems to dictate what a large number of people think but most people are too brainwashed too see it , especially sad to see when it's working classes being pitted against eachother or blaming migrants for every single problem but what can you do As for the future though with CBTC/ATO and AI/Mobile ticketing etc over the next 10/15 years there will be major changes to all modes of transport I believe and almost every industry so strikes are going to become more commonplace in a lot of industries. The £350m was a suggestion not a promise, I think it's fair to say that misleading claims were made by both sides in the Brexit campaign. Working classes (do they really exist anymore?) aren't being pitted against each other, train strikes and NHS strikes are seen by many in a totally different light.
|
|
|
Post by joefrombow on Jul 12, 2023 6:55:15 GMT
I don’t think this should turn into a debate about wage structures of various roles because this attacks individuals on this forum who could work in industries concerned, such as I, who not only is a train driver but also a senior trainer at the company I work for. The strikes inconvenience everyone in many ways. Each one of us loses out in a way: the general public and staff alike. And it’s going to a be a pain in the behind during this week of chaos that’s scheduled to go ahead. I think we should keep it civil here. As enthusiasts of the transport industry and personal opinions on who deserves what pay should really be kept to a minimum. That is the beauty of this Forum unlike the rail forums that freedom of speech within reason is allowed nothing wrong with healthy debate it's good too see alternative view points and not be silenced if you dare criticize the transport industry I find some of the views irritating but it's good too see how different people think .
|
|