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Post by marlon101 on Jul 18, 2013 21:58:29 GMT
Obviously I'd last about 5 minutes at Abellieo then... ...the other week on the 89 4 trips, 4 different buses (No Air Con, Drivers Seat too high, Step adrift) Dare I try and provoke some E-bashing - all Es?
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Post by 6HP502C on Jul 19, 2013 1:50:05 GMT
Well those issues you've mentioned about Abellio and being told to keep driving unsafe vehicles are an utter disgrace. If they are typical of how Abellio maintain their vehicles it's a wonder someone hasn't been injured or worse. I know it is easy to write stuff on a discussion group when it doesn't affect work or your wages but I would have reported Abellio for those infringements. Buses without functioning brakes or flames coming out of the exhaust - Sheesh! That's symptomatic of the absolute dregs of deregulated cowboy operators. Sorry it that upsets any Abellio fans here but the public's and employee's safety must come first. I blame the driver. All this crap about asking the controller for thier number is cobblers. Just imagine you report a bus with faulty brakes, the controller says to carry on and gives you thier badge number. 5 minutes later you run someone over and kill them. Do drivers REALLY think that the police will not prosecute the driver, just because he has a controllers badge number? I had a bus with brake warning lights going off on the dash and the audiable alarm bleeping in my ear, was told to carry on and the bus would be subbed the other end. My reply? " I am refusing to drive this bus on the grounds of saftey". Stayed where I was and had a sub bus brought to me. Agreed - as I said, it's up to the driver to challenge the controller's instruction. It's one of the things that can cause tension between controllers and drivers. No manager worth their salt would want to be seen to be advocating such dubious practices. At the same time, I'm not sure if controllers are put in their place when it comes to taking defects and incidents seriously - some are obviously happy if the driver carries the risk so they can meet their targets, which is not the way I feel a bus operation should be run. Controllers shouldn't feel that they're able to get away with doing that.
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Post by Steve80 on Jul 19, 2013 3:29:06 GMT
Re: the previous episode, when I started with Abellio, I was given a prepay Oyster Card and told to go and learn 2 routes. On my first day, I was thrown in at the deep end on a 3, with the roadside controller at Oval asking if I could drive quickly as the service was in a bit of a state. I was like "I've never even driven a double decker bus before!" I had to contend with turns on my first day. To be fair, I did say I knew a few of the routes, like the 3 and 35 but there was no notion of a mentor or anything like that for any period of time. Controllers do have a job to do and are under pressure too. Drivers b*tch about them for the wrong reasons. Personally I had issues with some of the controllers because I felt they prioritised mileage over more important things, such as H&S and the law at times. I called them up various times with the expectation of having the bus subbed, seen to or towed, but told to continue in service instead. For example, when I took a 12 plate ED out on the N35, the brakes failed, resulting in me overshooting a couple of stops. I eventually stopped driving it when it took the handbrake to halt the bus after flooring the brake just to get it to slow down. The controller told me to keep driving and finish the shift. The Y reg Trident I took out on the N3, there were sparks and embers coming out of the exhaust early on, with the red STOP light coming on. I complained about this and was told to keep driving. By the end of the shift, the suspension had caved in in the Bromley area. I reported this and was told to drive the bus back to the garage, despite the bus banging against the road every few metres, causing damage to the surface. I think the only time I lost mileage due to a defect was with a ramp fault on one of the 35's EDs, which prevented the bus from moving. When I did get it going, dropping down to 3mph would force a stop and lengthy trial and error to get it going again, so the light run back to the garage was excruciating! Especially when the bus sat down right over the junction at Borough High Street. Also had issues with controllers telling to me drive a bus that could have taken me over my hours, despite various timely warnings. Had other problems, such as failed electrics/headlights at night and malfunctioning windscreen wipers in the rain (esp. on the Vs) which I reported to the controllers, only for them to instruct me to keep driving to prevent lost mileage. In some cases it's down to the driver to know what's what law wise, park up and refuse to continue if necessary. With some controllers, so long as the bus can move, they expect the driver to keep going, regardless of the defects that have been reported. They shouldn't treat drivers like mere expendables - any defect or circumstance which could put the driver's licence at risk should be nipped in the bud immediately, not encouraged to save mileage. I was particularly interested in the scenes with the new Stagecoach driver. I also recall going to West Ham, but I wanted to drive one of the Euro 2 ZF Tridents. I got to take 17363, which was great but I would have preferred one of the 17409-434 batch. Urbanite, your not the only one who had problems. Being an abellio employee I suppose I should be careful with what I say (especially as im in a lot of trouble as of late). Unfortunately, im sure I already said similar things in the abellio thread if you can be bothered to find them
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Post by daveb0789 on Jul 19, 2013 9:48:53 GMT
Controllers can be very bullying especially to new drivers when it comes to this sort of thing. I myself was a victim way back in 1996. I'm assuming most London bus cabs are air conditioned but there must be some that aren't. Would you refuse to drive if the cab was sweltering inside ?
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Post by rambo on Jul 19, 2013 18:44:40 GMT
Controllers can be very bullying especially to new drivers when it comes to this sort of thing. I myself was a victim way back in 1996. I'm assuming most London bus cabs are air conditioned but there must be some that aren't. Would you refuse to drive if the cab was sweltering inside ? I got very very close to refusing to drive any more this week due to the heat in the cab. On my last trip I was finding it very very difficult to stay awake due to the heat. If I feel like this again, I will stop driving.
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Post by lc1 on Jul 19, 2013 19:23:21 GMT
Obviously I'd last about 5 minutes at Abellieo then... ...the other week on the 89 4 trips, 4 different buses (No Air Con, Drivers Seat too high, Step adrift) Dare I try and provoke some E-bashing - all Es? Actually no, only the first one was an E, the second was a (B7) WVL and the last 2 (although I only broke one of them) were PVL's As an aside I refused to drive one of the E400's this week due to the cab seat not being fitted correctly thus leaving me stretching for the pedals...engineers tried to bully me, stood my ground and mangment backed me, sure that went down well with the engineers
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Post by marlon101 on Jul 19, 2013 21:27:41 GMT
Dare I try and provoke some E-bashing - all Es? Actually no, only the first one was an E, the second was a (B7) WVL and the last 2 (although I only broke one of them) were PVL's As an aside I refused to drive one of the E400's this week due to the cab seat not being fitted correctly thus leaving me stretching for the pedals...engineers tried to bully me, stood my ground and mangment backed me, sure that went down well with the engineers Well played. As a general rule of thumb, I prefer riding buses when my drivers can reach the brakes
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Post by DT 11 on Jul 23, 2013 20:33:08 GMT
Why would a batch of Cyclists go to Regent Street of all places!!
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Post by Jack on Jul 23, 2013 21:05:14 GMT
Why would a batch of Cyclists go to Regent Street of all places!! Because there aim is to cause a disturbance.....
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Post by Steve80 on Jul 24, 2013 3:23:34 GMT
Just finished watching this. A decent episode this one despite the lack of buses. There was a clip where the policeman stops a cyclist and says to her, you versus a car or a van. Who do you think will win? That was the same area where I had my accident involving my 155 bus and a cyclist although the cyclist was coming out from kennington lane and I was coming from kennington park road. From what I know, that critical mass cyclists happens on the last Friday of every month. I don't mind thme coming as I just sit there and watch But there was one time when I overtook my leader and left oxford circus before him and then I got stuck at the protest and finally came out of piccadilly 10 minutes late. With no leader, the amount of abuse I got from passengers at various stops was unforgettable! Another interesting section was the trouble passengers are having with boarding the 343. I seen them before in a video clip in youtube but only now we hear from specific passengers on how much they are suffering. I don't live in that area so I don't know the full extent but I still find it strange that they are still struggling to board the buses there
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Post by marlon101 on Jul 24, 2013 14:27:43 GMT
Just finished watching this. A decent episode this one despite the lack of buses. There was a clip where the policeman stops a cyclist and says to her, you versus a car or a van. Who do you think will win? That was the same area where I had my accident involving my 155 bus and a cyclist although the cyclist was coming out from kennington lane and I was coming from kennington park road. From what I know, that critical mass cyclists happens on the last Friday of every month. I don't mind thme coming as I just sit there and watch But there was one time when I overtook my leader and left oxford circus before him and then I got stuck at the protest and finally came out of piccadilly 10 minutes late. With no leader, the amount of abuse I got from passengers at various stops was unforgettable! Another interesting section was the trouble passengers are having with boarding the 343. I seen them before in a video clip in youtube but only now we hear from specific passengers on how much they are suffering. I don't live in that area so I don't know the full extent but I still find it strange that they are still struggling to board the buses there I agree with the comments above - thought it was a good episode though I am hearing it is taking a lot of flack, as are the BBC, for it being a cheap bit of propaganda for TfL trying to squeeze more money out of central government, probably a fair criticism. I dare say TfL nudged the beeb towards route 343 and they obliged. They obviously found the worst spot. An interesting question would be, given that there is allegedly a "most notorious bus stop" where people struggle to board is why a peak time journey couldn't be timed to begin at that particular bus stop. People are guaranteed to be able to board, would appreciate the dedicated bus and it does of course take the pressure of up to 87 passengers off of the other buses on the route. They made an interesting point about the development in the area having led to demand far outstripping supply. This suggests very poor planning control from the authorities. Normally they're quite good at extracting some planning section/legal clause type things which dedicates funding for improvements in local infrastructure, i.e. transport. That should have funded extra local transport services. This leads me to another point. They focus so much on making driving painful for people, but they don't understand where drivers are coming from. First of all, I am a bit uneasy about the idea of prioritising one form of transport over another. I do understand, but its worth remembering that Londoners are therefore being shortchanged on their car tax. Furthermore, its not very easy. Its all very well saying "get a bus" or "cycle" but moving transport modes is tough. Buses don't run/start where a lot of commuters want them. Back to those cyclists, I really don't know how people put up with them. After I was involved in a physical confrontation with one in Tottenham Court Road (as a pedestrian) I would struggle to hate them more. This programme achieved that. Cyclists have some sort of superiority complex, clearly encouraged by TfL, which makes them oblivious to red lights or running through red lights whilst using the wrong lane.
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Post by snoggle on Jul 24, 2013 16:33:46 GMT
@ Marlon101 - For me one of the issues with the latest programme is that there was no real sense of what options and choices there are for TfL. It came across as the "Michelle Dix Fix" that WILL work regardless. That is incredibly arrogant given that many helpful and sensible things are NOT happening because of a combination of Government / Mayoral / TfL decisions. I know quite a lot about transport (he says modestly ) and I wasn't convinced by what I saw. For example TfL are seemingly implementing a road user hierarchy but Boris declared several years ago that he had abandoned this policy. Why then are TfL spending millions on the Urban Traffic Control (UTC) system whose purpose is to mould a hierarchy? Purely from a "who is in charge" viewpoint that one is rather odd. On the London's Transport Yahoo Group Leon Daniels has said the programme was not influenced by TfL. The independent production company apparently have hours and hours and hours of recordings and they chose what went in the programmes. TfL did not influence the content and did not point the producers to the 343 just so they could tweet they are "improving" the route in early September. The cycling issue is difficult. Much of the programme portrayed cyclists as "trouble makers" which is a tad "brave" given the Mayor's policies. Years ago I used to cycle commute to work at 55 Broadway when there were few bus or cycle lanes and no real sense of cycle priority. I had once incident during that time which was half my fault and half the pedestrian's fault but neither of us were hurt. I'd never cycle commute now - partly because of the volume of dopey cyclists! I don't condone people ignoring the rules of the road - whether cyclists or motorists. However we also cannot keep having cyclists being crushed by lorries because of dangerous road designs and useless cycle lanes. We need to move to a situation where cyclists comply with traffic laws but in return are provided with facilities that reduce the risk of serious injury or death at many locations on the road network. The problem is that that is one heck of a big job that will take 10-15 years.
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Post by marlon101 on Jul 24, 2013 18:52:04 GMT
@ Marlon101 - For me one of the issues with the latest programme is that there was no real sense of what options and choices there are for TfL. It came across as the "Michelle Dix Fix" that WILL work regardless. That is incredibly arrogant given that many helpful and sensible things are NOT happening because of a combination of Government / Mayoral / TfL decisions. I know quite a lot about transport (he says modestly ) and I wasn't convinced by what I saw. For example TfL are seemingly implementing a road user hierarchy but Boris declared several years ago that he had abandoned this policy. Why then are TfL spending millions on the Urban Traffic Control (UTC) system whose purpose is to mould a hierarchy? Purely from a "who is in charge" viewpoint that one is rather odd. On the London's Transport Yahoo Group Leon Daniels has said the programme was not influenced by TfL. The independent production company apparently have hours and hours and hours of recordings and they chose what went in the programmes. TfL did not influence the content and did not point the producers to the 343 just so they could tweet they are "improving" the route in early September. The cycling issue is difficult. Much of the programme portrayed cyclists as "trouble makers" which is a tad "brave" given the Mayor's policies. Years ago I used to cycle commute to work at 55 Broadway when there were few bus or cycle lanes and no real sense of cycle priority. I had once incident during that time which was half my fault and half the pedestrian's fault but neither of us were hurt. I'd never cycle commute now - partly because of the volume of dopey cyclists! I don't condone people ignoring the rules of the road - whether cyclists or motorists. However we also cannot keep having cyclists being crushed by lorries because of dangerous road designs and useless cycle lanes. We need to move to a situation where cyclists comply with traffic laws but in return are provided with facilities that reduce the risk of serious injury or death at many locations on the road network. The problem is that that is one heck of a big job that will take 10-15 years. Thanks for your lengthy and informative reply. That is quite interesting that Boris said he had abandoned a hierarchical approach, which as I hinted, is morally questionable and politically interesting as you say. I just think the culture and attitude towards cycling is all wrong. I agree we need to save more lives, but I really dislike the way that cyclists are not responsible for anything. When the poor young woman lost her life at Aldgate recently (I must be clear, I'm making no aspersions or assigning blame myself here) whilst cycling on the superhighway, everbody's first reaction was "the road design must be changed" - it was inconceivable that other factors like cyclists' behaviour might be at play. You saw the tensions that boil over between road users and cyclists in that programme too. I think if cycling is to really work, a significant culture shift is required from all parties and I'd hold TfL responsible for that. Drivers do not like cyclists. Cyclists do not like motorists or red lights. It'd be a downsight cheaper if we could get along and share road space which I don't think is impossible, and would allow places where it is logistically challenging to therefore be prioritised rather than throwing cash around on blue paint that starts in the middle of thin air and ends in the wallets of road contractors. Your point about the 343 was interesting. Was that a rebuttal of my suggestion or quoting Leon Daniels specifically about the 343 or..?? It was certainly an interesting point in the programme and a lot are suggesting that the programme makers have perhaps gone native and are on board with TfL's "we need more cash" mantra - taking us back to the beginning of your post: whose in charge?
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Post by Jack on Jul 24, 2013 19:30:39 GMT
I am fed up of reading all these silly comments on various sites and boards generalizing all cyclists as "bad" because of The Route Master program....Not all cyclists are bad, some of us actually follow the rules!!
On the contrast of the program, yesterday I slowed down and waved a bus out from the stop who was ready to leave and got a thanks and thumbs out from the window. I then pulled up and got off my bike having arrived at my destination and the driver saw me on the pavement and tooted and waved again....two happy people by doing such a little gesture...If only everyone had this mentality! Did they show any good cycling in the program? Simple answer is no. I felt it was very bias and one sided!
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Post by RM5chris on Jul 24, 2013 19:47:22 GMT
I'm with Jack - some of us do stop for lights/zebra crossings and are courteous to over road users.
I've waved the bus on many times when coming behind it and his indicator goes on or if I am alongside I will usually (if safe to do so) give the bus an 'after you' motion and drop back (and in) as the bus pulls away. Hell, I even slow down (and have stopped) if I see a bus ahead of me at a stop as I would rather let it be in front of me rather than have it behind and delay it!
However I was nearly knocked down on Monday only this week by white van man coming from behind me and turning left as I was trying to go straight on - he was right alongside me and just turned - I had to slam my brakes on and steer into the curb or he would have had me under his van. It is that sort of incident that does make me think 'you know, going past that turn tomorrow (which is a 'rat run' - I am going to drift over a little and 'block' the lane so sh*tc**ts can't pull moves like that until I am passed that turning....
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