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Post by sw11simon on Jan 13, 2014 13:28:33 GMT
And here folks is the official consultation on extending the 136 to E&C. Consultation Linkbasically it extends the 136 as predicted with Peckham Bus Station not being served. 1 bus will be removed from the 343's peak service. It is good they finally addressing the capacity in North Peckham properly. The only thing about these proposals that may get an objection is the stand for the 136 in Borough Road. There is space but when the 333 was first put in there, complaints were common from at least a local resident. If that is still the case, and support from that road could be gained to object, a different stand may be needed.
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Post by moz on Jan 13, 2014 14:31:46 GMT
There are stands on both sides of Borough Road so if the 333 maintains it's current clockwise loop to the eastbound stand then the 136 could work an anti-clockwise loop to the westbound.
Moz
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Post by M1104 on Jan 13, 2014 15:30:27 GMT
And here folks is the official consultation on extending the 136 to E&C. Consultation Linkbasically it extends the 136 as predicted with Peckham Bus Station not being served. 1 bus will be removed from the 343's peak service. It is good they finally addressing the capacity in North Peckham properly. The only thing about these proposals that may get an objection is the stand for the 136 in Borough Road. There is space but when the 333 was first put in there, complaints were common from at least a local resident. If that is still the case, and support from that road could be gained to object, a different stand may be needed. The 136 could possibly go along London Road and stand with the 155 and 468, assuming there is enough space for an additional route to park there. It would also benefit in creating a minor yet effective round-the-corner link from that part of the Elephant into the southbound 343 routing. Alternatively the 136 could terminate at Borough Station and stand where I've seen the 17 presently stand (i'm assuming the latter stands there on a temporary basis due to work in London Bridge bus station).
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Post by southlondonbus on Jan 13, 2014 15:43:09 GMT
I think this is a fantastic change and I hope it goes ahead. Aswell as supporting route 343 it will give a new link from Lewisham to Elephant. Im guessing the ex 472 TAs which are from early 2014 will be used as the E40Hs would have been delivered by then.
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Post by M1104 on Jan 13, 2014 15:52:40 GMT
I think this is a fantastic change and I hope it goes ahead. Aswell as supporting route 343 it will give a new link from Lewisham to Elephant. Im guessing the ex 472 TAs which are from early 2014 will be used as the E40Hs would have been delivered by then. I can see it being a well used route, maybe not initially as it takes time for the public to be aware of the change. I am guessing the running and stand times will be generous so as to avoid frequent curtailments at Peckham.... unless perhaps there are possible curtailment points within the North Peckham area, ie Southampton Way or Albany Road.
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Post by southlondonbus on Jan 13, 2014 16:32:27 GMT
oh ok. I guess we are not even 2 years into the new contract so buying new buses would be worthwhile and if they are E40Hs then it could be a few more on the 53 with E40Ds moving to TL.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2014 16:36:24 GMT
I think this is a fantastic change and I hope it goes ahead. Aswell as supporting route 343 it will give a new link from Lewisham to Elephant. Im guessing the ex 472 TAs which are from early 2014 will be used as the E40Hs would have been delivered by then. I don't think I'd quite go that far, it's a step in the right direction but that's about it. The link between Lewisham and Elephant is too indirect to be of any great use, it would be quicker to change at NX onto a 53,172 or 453. North Peckham really needs a link into the West End anyway.
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Post by Nathan on Jan 13, 2014 16:36:59 GMT
I think this is a fantastic change and I hope it goes ahead. Aswell as supporting route 343 it will give a new link from Lewisham to Elephant. Im guessing the ex 472 TAs which are from early 2014 will be used as the E40Hs would have been delivered by then. I can see it being a well used route, maybe not initially as it takes time for the public to be aware of the change. I am guessing the running and stand times will be generous so as to avoid frequent curtailments at Peckham.... unless perhaps there are possible curtailment points within the North Peckham area, ie Southampton Way or Albany Road. I don't think there are any curtailment points along the 343 route in North Peckham. But if they were to add one, then buses could possibly turn at Cottage Green, then on to Wells Way to go back towards Peckham again. I wonder, if this proposal goes through, will Stagecoach just order a few more diesel E400s, or get some hybrids instead?
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Route 136
Jan 13, 2014 16:49:16 GMT
via mobile
Post by Ice Prxnce on Jan 13, 2014 16:49:16 GMT
Not a fan of this extension at all but hey ho, at least it provides a link between Lewisham and Elephant and gives 343 some support.
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Post by overgroundcommuter on Jan 13, 2014 18:25:05 GMT
I've posted my response in agreement with the proposals, although raised concerns about gaps in service if stuck in traffic jams particularly between Downham and Grove Park where it's the main double decker route.
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Post by snoggle on Jan 13, 2014 18:39:40 GMT
Not a fan of this extension at all but hey ho, at least it provides a link between Lewisham and Elephant and gives 343 some support. Why aren't you supportive? It's a minor miracle, given the funding situation, that this change has actually made it to the consultation stage. It's not exactly cheap given the additional frequency that is being provided over a fair distance. It's an extra six buses or so at peak times which is the sort of resource that could be used on other routes elsewhere to bolster services. I'm not denying the seriousness of the North Peckham issue but it's not the only place suffering overcrowding which is why I'm surprised TfL have gone for this rather than sticking another decker on the 343 and hoping it's enough. That's been the tactic for years.
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Post by moz on Jan 13, 2014 18:56:28 GMT
It is good they finally addressing the capacity in North Peckham properly. The only thing about these proposals that may get an objection is the stand for the 136 in Borough Road. There is space but when the 333 was first put in there, complaints were common from at least a local resident. If that is still the case, and support from that road could be gained to object, a different stand may be needed. The 136 could possibly go along London Road and stand with the 155 and 468, assuming there is enough space for an additional route to park there. It would also benefit in creating a minor yet effective round-the-corner link from that part of the Elephant into the southbound 343 routing. Alternatively the 136 could terminate at Borough Station and stand where I've seen the 17 presently stand (i'm assuming the latter stands there on a temporary basis due to work in London Bridge bus station). There is a two bus stand in Nebraska Street SE1 near Borough Station which never seems to be used so potentially the 136 could use that, though quite why the 17 doesn't use it puzzles me. I can see the 343 getting further reductions once the 136 extension beds in as there seems to be quite a lot of interchange onto the 343 in Peckham and presumably a fair portion of those passengers come from the New Cross/Lewisham direction. Moz
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Route 136
Jan 13, 2014 19:11:11 GMT
via mobile
Post by vjaska on Jan 13, 2014 19:11:11 GMT
The 136 could possibly go along London Road and stand with the 155 and 468, assuming there is enough space for an additional route to park there. It would also benefit in creating a minor yet effective round-the-corner link from that part of the Elephant into the southbound 343 routing. Alternatively the 136 could terminate at Borough Station and stand where I've seen the 17 presently stand (i'm assuming the latter stands there on a temporary basis due to work in London Bridge bus station). There is a two bus stand in Nebraska Street SE1 near Borough Station which never seems to be used so potentially the 136 could use that, though quite why the 17 doesn't use it puzzles me. I can see the 343 getting further reductions once the 136 extension beds in as there seems to be quite a lot of interchange onto the 343 in Peckham and presumably a fair portion of those passengers come from the New Cross/Lewisham direction. Moz It's a shame that Tabard Street in Borough was pedestrianised as that used to have a stand as well - only enough for 1 bus though I think.
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Route 136
Jan 13, 2014 19:58:08 GMT
via mobile
Post by Ice Prxnce on Jan 13, 2014 19:58:08 GMT
Not a fan of this extension at all but hey ho, at least it provides a link between Lewisham and Elephant and gives 343 some support. Why aren't you supportive? It's a minor miracle, given the funding situation, that this change has actually made it to the consultation stage. It's not exactly cheap given the additional frequency that is being provided over a fair distance. It's an extra six buses or so at peak times which is the sort of resource that could be used on other routes elsewhere to bolster services. I'm not denying the seriousness of the North Peckham issue but it's not the only place suffering overcrowding which is why I'm surprised TfL have gone for this rather than sticking another decker on the 343 and hoping it's enough. That's been the tactic for years. I agree with all of what you said but I'm just not sure if 136 is the right candidate for this extension. The route is already long enough and I think that 453 could have been extended to Lewisham via Brookmill Road to provide a link between Lewisham and Elephant & Castle. Probably at least 1 or 2 extra buses would be required. As for the North Peckham situation, I feel that the 521 should have been extended to Peckham via East Street and route 343 as it uses long buses and could ease overcrowding on the 343. But then again, there might be some roads around the East Street area that could be tight for Citaros.
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Post by snoggle on Jan 13, 2014 20:30:46 GMT
Why aren't you supportive? It's a minor miracle, given the funding situation, that this change has actually made it to the consultation stage. It's not exactly cheap given the additional frequency that is being provided over a fair distance. It's an extra six buses or so at peak times which is the sort of resource that could be used on other routes elsewhere to bolster services. I'm not denying the seriousness of the North Peckham issue but it's not the only place suffering overcrowding which is why I'm surprised TfL have gone for this rather than sticking another decker on the 343 and hoping it's enough. That's been the tactic for years. I agree with all of what you said but I'm just not sure if 136 is the right candidate for this extension. The route is already long enough and I think that 453 could have been extended to Lewisham via Brookmill Road to provide a link between Lewisham and Elephant & Castle. Probably at least 1 or 2 extra buses would be required. As for the North Peckham situation, I feel that the 521 should have been extended to Peckham via East Street and route 343 as it uses long buses and could ease overcrowding on the 343. But then again, there might be some roads around the East Street area that could be tight for Citaros. The problem with the 521 is that it is extremely frequent in the rush hour which means it would overbus any link south of London Bridge if the whole service was extended. It would also be hugely expensive. Extending only part of the service would make the scheduling complicated and run the risk of gaps on the core section. The one thing the 507 and 521 need and usually get is a very regular turn round of buses at high frequencies to shift the crowds emerging from the stations. The 521 only runs M-F so any overcrowding at other times in North Peckham would not be dealt with by extending that service. Running the 521 at weekends through the City is not going to be a viable proposition even though there is more activity than there used to be. To be fair to TfL I don't think they are setting out to link Elephant to Lewisham with the 136 proposal - it's a side effect. They're simply taking a route that is reasonably frequent and which terminates in Peckham from the south / east and using it to enhance service levels on the North Peckham corridor. Given the scale of demand it really needs to be a double decker which limits the options as to what you extend. Another option might have been the 484 from Camberwell but it'd be really overloaded given the use of single decks. I think people will, in time, use the 136 for the Elephant - Lewisham link and that will be a side effect of this proposal. I agree that extending the 453 would be cheaper but given the turmoil that is about to be visited upon Lewisham Town Centre (the rebuilding near the station) I doubt TfL want to put more buses into Lewisham.
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