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Post by DT 11 on Apr 17, 2015 18:32:40 GMT
I don't think Rodney failed just because of failing to indicate off a roundabout. If the examiner wasn't happy with his attitude (and driving) he could have failed him for ANYTHING so I think there were multiple faults with his driving. I thought Courtney was mouthy and obstructive and for that reason alone he should have been thrown off the course so someone more grateful and willing to learn could take his place. I really hope Alvin will improve his English enough to pass. It should be a barrier. I know (knew) plenty of drivers who could barely speak English. It would be interesting to follow the progress of a driver wanting to get into coach driving where presentation, customer service skills are far more important. I don't think his attitude was that bad to be honest, but could have been better. Failing a Test like that for forgetting to do such a simple thing could annoy anyone in that situation, but in my opinion that is the wrong attitude for getting angry over the fail, Fails in anything are only stepping stones to get even better, he could have been dismissed from the entire course, but he was not. He passed and he should have been very grateful to get another test, the least he could have done is given the man a Handshake for actually getting another test. Forgetting to signal in my opinion is dangerous there are so many people who do this daily on the road especially at roundabouts and junctions. |
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Post by vjaska on Apr 17, 2015 18:51:40 GMT
I don't think Rodney failed just because of failing to indicate off a roundabout. If the examiner wasn't happy with his attitude (and driving) he could have failed him for ANYTHING so I think there were multiple faults with his driving. I thought Courtney was mouthy and obstructive and for that reason alone he should have been thrown off the course so someone more grateful and willing to learn could take his place. I really hope Alvin will improve his English enough to pass. It should be a barrier. I know (knew) plenty of drivers who could barely speak English. Can the London bus companies attract a higher standard of trainee rather than what seems to be people off the dole queue or in 'routine' type jobs? The job is professional after all. It would be interesting to follow the progress of a driver wanting to get into coach driving where presentation, customer service skills are far more important. Would it not be better if there were less people in the dole queue full stop? Just become someone came from a supermarket or was a van driver before doesn't mean they can't drive a passenger vehicle. It would be like saying you can't go to Oxford or Cambridge university because your upbringing wasn't posh enough. It's this type of what seems to be 'snobbery' that has this country in a mess in the first place. I agree that Courtney is an idiot and really shouldn't be driving buses but I judge him and others on their driving skill, not whether they had routine job before bus driving that should potentially rule him out. |
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Post by daveb0789 on Apr 17, 2015 19:05:06 GMT
I agree Vjaska I'm not saying people from a supermarket or driving vans can't drive - of course they can and the majority of drivers come from that type of job but as another documentary on the EYMS showed you do get trainees from other types of occupation (I think one driver was an banker made redundant) and why do I want to see this on tv - to show everyone that London bus driving isn't just a job for a certain type of people.
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Post by snoggle on Apr 17, 2015 19:19:08 GMT
I don't think Rodney failed just because of failing to indicate off a roundabout. If the examiner wasn't happy with his attitude (and driving) he could have failed him for ANYTHING so I think there were multiple faults with his driving. I thought Courtney was mouthy and obstructive and for that reason alone he should have been thrown off the course so someone more grateful and willing to learn could take his place. I really hope Alvin will improve his English enough to pass. It should be a barrier. I know (knew) plenty of drivers who could barely speak English. Can the London bus companies attract a higher standard of trainee rather than what seems to be people off the dole queue or in 'routine' type jobs? The job is professional after all. It would be interesting to follow the progress of a driver wanting to get into coach driving where presentation, customer service skills are far more important. Beware the foibles of reality TV programmes. We have no idea what was filmed and how much has ended up on the editing suite floor. I assume the statements about the test are reasonably truthful but we don't know. I can understand Rodney's disappointment - I tend to beat myself up if I don't do things properly. I did feel the Arriva manager's attitude in the office interview was very poor. I couldn't have got away with talking to my staff like that. I thought Rodney's wife was very good though - clued up, understanding and encouraging. I am afraid I don't agree with your later comments. There's a common theme across these "learn to drive a bus" series - the people applying all view it as a decent secure job which allows them to make their lives better. That's an entirely laudable and reasonable aspiration for anybody no matter how lairy or "big gobbed" they might be in front of TV cameras. Again the camera is going to exaggerate certain things. It takes all sorts to make the world go round and there are plenty of coach drivers who are full of personality *and* professionalism. I think it's a bit harsh to expect people to be instantly "professional" if their previous work experience hasn't necessarily required it. Dealing with the public is a bit of an art form and few people take to it naturally. Most have to learn to adapt their behaviour to deal with a wide range of people. I don't see why the bus companies have to attract a higher standard of trainee - strikes me that they seem pretty clued up about sifting people out at various stages of the process while balancing that with giving prospective employees a reasonable chance. If you want a very high standard then you'll end up with vast numbers never getting behind the wheel at all because you'd reject them on the basis of their application or possibly interview stage. The alternative is to pay drivers £100 a hour - that'll attract some high flyers but the downside is that there'd be about 10 buses running in London at that level of wage rate because no one could afford that level of costs or the fare levels that would entail. |
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Post by ServerKing on Apr 17, 2015 19:32:05 GMT
I don't think Rodney failed just because of failing to indicate off a roundabout. If the examiner wasn't happy with his attitude (and driving) he could have failed him for ANYTHING so I think there were multiple faults with his driving. I thought Courtney was mouthy and obstructive and for that reason alone he should have been thrown off the course so someone more grateful and willing to learn could take his place. I really hope Alvin will improve his English enough to pass. It should be a barrier. I know (knew) plenty of drivers who could barely speak English. Can the London bus companies attract a higher standard of trainee rather than what seems to be people off the dole queue or in 'routine' type jobs? The job is professional after all. It would be interesting to follow the progress of a driver wanting to get into coach driving where presentation, customer service skills are far more important. Would it not be better if there were less people in the dole queue full stop? Just become someone came from a supermarket or was a van driver before doesn't mean they can't drive a passenger vehicle. It would be like saying you can't go to Oxford or Cambridge university because your upbringing wasn't posh enough. It's this type of what seems to be 'snobbery' that has this country in a mess in the first place. I agree that Courtney is an idiot and really shouldn't be driving buses but I judge him and others on their driving skill, not whether they had routine job before bus driving that should potentially rule him out. There's snobbery everywhere - a few years ago I used to drive a minicab, but met other drivers from all walks of life, including professional accountants - I took a year out from IT to drive a taxi but I know some would look down on that work, but it was a professional job. You had to go thru rigorous tests with TfL back in the day with the Public Carriage Office. But there's good and bad drivers everywhere, be it behind the wheel of a bus (Like SN1923 trying to cut me up on Uxbridge Rd this evening), or at the wheel of a minicab chancing his luck in the bus lanes on Euston Road (always Addison Lee, it seems  ) I'm looking forward to the next instalment  |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2015 9:29:20 GMT
It made me laugh when the Polish chap saved the day by not going under a low bridge. For sure the trainer made a mistake with her directions but she would have noticed the height restriction, maybe sooner then the trainee.
Don't forget she has the emergency handbrake by her side. I think it was to make an average situation exciting. Enjoying the programme me though.
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Post by snoggle on Apr 23, 2015 18:34:31 GMT
Ding ding - next episode departs on ITV1 in 56 minutes.   |
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Post by vjaska on Apr 23, 2015 19:45:13 GMT
On doing 20mph on a 40mph road.
"We're like Jesus. If you look in your mirror, you'll see our followers behind us"
LOL.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2015 19:58:17 GMT
Well done Alvin |
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Post by snoggle on Apr 23, 2015 20:17:26 GMT
Spot the location - A406, Billet Roundabout, Dog Stadium, Chingford Mount, Chingford Road. Mansfield Hill / Ridgeway junction  Got the turn at Chingford Police Station right on his evaluation drive. Interesting that he's on DLA128 that also ran on the 313. 
Arriva London DLA128 313 Kings Head Hill by plcd1, on Flickr Ooh well done Alvin Baptism of fire on the 279 with Edmonton and Tottenham's finest. New word learnt - "numbnuts"  I see ENS18 was lurking in Edmonton garage - I was on that today on the W11 although I nearly went the wrong way because a driver heading to Chingford Hall still had Walthamstow on the front. He did realise his error though. "All our followers" on Sewardstone Road there. "Ardenaline does have a smell" I think the Norwood Garage instructor Tony teaching "Mrs Short Legs" is quite a character. "We'll find you a bus with stabilisers"  In fact all the instructors have that lovely dry understated sense of humour. Do all the bus companies employ the "white van" initial test tactic? |
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Post by TA1 on Apr 23, 2015 21:04:39 GMT
Didn't watch the programme, as I'm out of the country. But saw somebody fitting Alvin's description and appearance on the 349's, sunday just gone. Well done too him for passing.
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Post by daveb0789 on Apr 26, 2015 9:35:18 GMT
Im beginning to wonder whether being intelligent (the woman who was studying for a law degree) can be more of a hindrance as intelligent people are of course expected to pick up things faster.
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Post by snoggle on Apr 26, 2015 10:19:11 GMT
Im beginning to wonder whether being intelligent (the woman who was studying for a law degree) can be more of a hindrance as intelligent people are of course expected to pick up things faster. Are they? Surely driving a bus is much, much more to do with co-ordination, spatial awareness and judgement? I don't see what intelligence has to do with that. Some people are blessed with a natural sense of hand to eye co-ordination and the ability to judge space. I'm a clever chap but I have pretty useless hand to eye co-ordination. I can't play a raquet sport to save my life - dreadful at tennis, cricket, golf etc. Always have been and always will be. It took me longer than others on my course to learn how to ride a motorcycle for the first time - again all about being able to "feel" the biting point of the clutch and get my hands and feet to work together to control the bike. I nearly rode off the road on Sewardstone Road because I wasn't paying attention to an upcoming bend  - again all about looking ahead and execising a judgement. Now OK you can improve that skill and understanding but some people are blessed with a better inate ability and have a lower learning curve than others. I can assimilate and assess masses of information and reach conclusions that other people can't do in the same way. I had that comment from work colleagues lots of times - "how *do* you do *that*?" they would say. I couldn't explain it - it's just how my brain works. Meanwhile ask me to do some simple DIY - disaster guaranteed. |
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Post by 6HP502C on Apr 27, 2015 15:34:59 GMT
I don't see why the bus companies have to attract a higher standard of trainee - strikes me that they seem pretty clued up about sifting people out at various stages of the process while balancing that with giving prospective employees a reasonable chance. If you want a very high standard then you'll end up with vast numbers never getting behind the wheel at all because you'd reject them on the basis of their application or possibly interview stage. The alternative is to pay drivers £100 a hour - that'll attract some high flyers but the downside is that there'd be about 10 buses running in London at that level of wage rate because no one could afford that level of costs or the fare levels that would entail. The bus industry is funny really - many drivers I speak to have been dismissed or jumped before they were pushed from other bus companies. The sad thing is, some of them just don't seem to learn from their previous mistakes. How can the industry attract drivers who won't commit a string of sackable offences before long? |
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Post by 6HP502C on Apr 27, 2015 15:40:55 GMT
Im beginning to wonder whether being intelligent (the woman who was studying for a law degree) can be more of a hindrance as intelligent people are of course expected to pick up things faster. Are they? Surely driving a bus is much, much more to do with co-ordination, spatial awareness and judgement? I don't see what intelligence has to do with that. Some people are blessed with a natural sense of hand to eye co-ordination and the ability to judge space. I'm a clever chap but I have pretty useless hand to eye co-ordination. I can't play a raquet sport to save my life - dreadful at tennis, cricket, golf etc. Always have been and always will be. It took me longer than others on my course to learn how to ride a motorcycle for the first time - again all about being able to "feel" the biting point of the clutch and get my hands and feet to work together to control the bike. I nearly rode off the road on Sewardstone Road because I wasn't paying attention to an upcoming bend - again all about looking ahead and execising a judgement. Now OK you can improve that skill and understanding but some people are blessed with a better inate ability and have a lower learning curve than others. I can assimilate and assess masses of information and reach conclusions that other people can't do in the same way. I had that comment from work colleagues lots of times - "how *do* you do *that*?" they would say. I couldn't explain it - it's just how my brain works. Meanwhile ask me to do some simple DIY - disaster guaranteed. Agreed you don't need to be an academic champion to drive a bus. Rail replacement is funny - it requires competency in navigation, which in turn requires a certain level of understanding of the English Language which not all drivers possess. Some drivers seem to get lost every weekend on rail replacement, abjectly refusing to even look at maps provided or roadsigns. They lack the confidence to drive without a pilot or following another bus which does know its way. In this instance, I think bus companies ought to look for people with the correct attitude towards the job. |
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) I'm looking forward to the next instalment 
Got the turn at Chingford Police Station right on his evaluation drive. Interesting that he's on DLA128 that also ran on the 313.
In fact all the instructors have that lovely dry understated sense of humour.
- again all about looking ahead and execising a judgement. Now OK you can improve that skill and understanding but some people are blessed with a better inate ability and have a lower learning curve than others.
