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Post by snoggle on Apr 27, 2015 15:55:43 GMT
I don't see why the bus companies have to attract a higher standard of trainee - strikes me that they seem pretty clued up about sifting people out at various stages of the process while balancing that with giving prospective employees a reasonable chance. If you want a very high standard then you'll end up with vast numbers never getting behind the wheel at all because you'd reject them on the basis of their application or possibly interview stage. The alternative is to pay drivers £100 a hour - that'll attract some high flyers but the downside is that there'd be about 10 buses running in London at that level of wage rate because no one could afford that level of costs or the fare levels that would entail. The bus industry is funny really - many drivers I speak to have been dismissed or jumped before they were pushed from other bus companies. The sad thing is, some of them just don't seem to learn from their previous mistakes. How can the industry attract drivers who won't commit a string of sackable offences before long? Fairly simple answers to that a) don't employ people with "dubious" employment records b) bus companies check back with previous employers as to reasons for leaving / dismissal c) raise the requirements of the job so you only employ people of a certain character / competence d) raise pay levels universally to attract different people e) change the nature of how people are employed (shift patterns etc) to attract different people The problem, of course, with some of the above is that you will increase costs without increasing revenue thus jeopardising the size of the bus network across the company. You may also end up with large recruitment problems meaning services become less reliable thus losing patronage and plunging things back to a spiral of decline. In short there are no terribly easy answers other than employers making proper checks on prospective employees and previous employers being honest about the performance of those previous employees. I suspect, though, that "anti discrimination" rules prevent potentially negative remarks. TfL certainly given ridiculously bland "references" for ex employees.
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Post by 6HP502C on Apr 27, 2015 17:25:57 GMT
Fairly simple answers to that a) don't employ people with "dubious" employment records b) bus companies check back with previous employers as to reasons for leaving / dismissal c) raise the requirements of the job so you only employ people of a certain character / competence d) raise pay levels universally to attract different people e) change the nature of how people are employed (shift patterns etc) to attract different people The problem, of course, with some of the above is that you will increase costs without increasing revenue thus jeopardising the size of the bus network across the company. You may also end up with large recruitment problems meaning services become less reliable thus losing patronage and plunging things back to a spiral of decline. In short there are no terribly easy answers other than employers making proper checks on prospective employees and previous employers being honest about the performance of those previous employees. I suspect, though, that "anti discrimination" rules prevent potentially negative remarks. TfL certainly given ridiculously bland "references" for ex employees. I was going to say, you'd probably end up wiping out thousands of drivers if things actually worked like this. Bus companies do talk to each other, with strictly "off the record" reference checking going on where a driver's application arouses suspicion - or so I was told by a staff manager. Drivers are given second chances with another employer after doing heinous things like crashing into a bridge, deliberately writing off vehicles who have cut them up, aquaplaning in service after bombing it along the road at illegal speeds and letting 16 year old friends drive the bus. I love listening to other drivers' career stories, though I do so with an equal measure of amusement and alarm. Many are clever enough to resign before they get sacked, as a dismissal from a London bus operator makes it a lot harder to get another chance. The London bus industry is a world away from things up here in Loughborough, where a really good local bus company has a very different approach to recruitment. I went for an interview with them in my first year at uni, a couple of months after I got my PCV. I didn't get a job because my attitude to customer service was "too London". I was asked a series of questions, around 10 scenarios where for various reasons, people got on the bus unable/unwilling to pay. Thinking this is a commercial company who respect set procedure, I gave honest answers. This was my downfall - apparently I was supposed to let all and sundry on for free, because it's really good customer service, which loses less money than the risk of a negative reputation. Do their drivers do that in reality? No, but they do always have a smile plastered on their face and say hi and bye to every single passenger, which is quite hard work. So instead I commute 120 miles to London to drive, where I am truly in my element! It all depends on how picky bus operators can afford to be. Agencies in London are booming at the moment and recruitment is an interminable process due to high levels of turnover.
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Post by snoggle on Apr 27, 2015 18:55:40 GMT
The London bus industry is a world away from things up here in Loughborough, where a really good local bus company has a very different approach to recruitment. I went for an interview with them in my first year at uni, a couple of months after I got my PCV. I didn't get a job because my attitude to customer service was "too London". I was asked a series of questions, around 10 scenarios where for various reasons, people got on the bus unable/unwilling to pay. Thinking this is a commercial company who respect set procedure, I gave honest answers. This was my downfall - apparently I was supposed to let all and sundry on for free, because it's really good customer service, which loses less money than the risk of a negative reputation. Do their drivers do that in reality? No, but they do always have a smile plastered on their face and say hi and bye to every single passenger, which is quite hard work. So instead I commute 120 miles to London to drive, where I am truly in my element! It all depends on how picky bus operators can afford to be. Agencies in London are booming at the moment and recruitment is an interminable process due to high levels of turnover. Ah the "Alex Hornby School of Smiles" Bus Company Still he's moved on now so perhaps things aren't quite so tense. I've only used the Trans Peak (when it still was with TB) amongst the stable of TB / Kinch services. To be fair the buses seem well used and it's a pretty unique way of presenting / marketing bus services. However it's not without its issues or criticism from the passengers. I'd certainly like to have a ride round on several of their bus routes just to see how things are in reality. I doubt very much that loads of people are allowed to travel for free but I suspect the company's experience of the young girl who was refused travel by a TB driver and was then brutally attacked in Nottingham has perhaps informed their policy towards certain vulnerable passengers. I can understand why they would want to test an applicant's approach to such scenarios but it's perhaps a tad unfair to expect an applicant to somehow know what their customer service policies are.
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Post by daveb0789 on Apr 28, 2015 16:13:13 GMT
Just as an aside having a pcv license doesn't seem to be as advantageous as one might think when it comes to getting a job. In fact I know one bus company that only took on trainees preferring those with excellent customer service skills as it claimed teaching someone to drive a bus was relatively straightforward.
My present job had a high focus on customer service at interview stage as another example.
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Post by snoggle on Apr 30, 2015 17:24:24 GMT
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Post by snoggle on Apr 30, 2015 19:38:21 GMT
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Post by TA1 on Apr 30, 2015 19:44:51 GMT
I wonder if the 192 wasn't in the hands of GAL, Would the instructor of made those comments
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Post by snoggle on Apr 30, 2015 20:09:32 GMT
I wonder if the 192 wasn't in the hands of GAL, Would the instructor of made those comments You did better than I did in spotting the location of the emergency stop. I'll need to rewatch the episode. Loved the bit with Nadine being "tortured" by her instructor in the West End - "nice pair of shoes" "look at that dress" "isn't that handbag good?" Clever training tactic though. Anyway that was an enjoyable series with a decent mix of characters. I shall have to see if I recognise any of the drivers or instructors on my travels.
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Post by TA1 on Apr 30, 2015 20:19:06 GMT
I wonder if the 192 wasn't in the hands of GAL, Would the instructor of made those comments You did better than I did in spotting the location of the emergency stop. I'll need to rewatch the episode. Loved the bit with Nadine being "tortured" by her instructor in the West End - "nice pair of shoes" "look at that dress" "isn't that handbag good?" Clever training tactic though. Anyway that was an enjoyable series with a decent mix of characters. I shall have to see if I recognise any of the drivers or instructors on my travels. LOL, Yes it was the Northern end of Glover Drive. 192 was bound for Enfield Town; judging by its positioning. I've seen Alvin on the 349's about Two sundays ago. I'd like to see another series commissioned.
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Post by vjaska on Apr 30, 2015 22:48:31 GMT
I wonder if the 192 wasn't in the hands of GAL, Would the instructor of made those comments You did better than I did in spotting the location of the emergency stop. I'll need to rewatch the episode. Loved the bit with Nadine being "tortured" by her instructor in the West End - "nice pair of shoes" "look at that dress" "isn't that handbag good?" Clever training tactic though. Anyway that was an enjoyable series with a decent mix of characters. I shall have to see if I recognise any of the drivers or instructors on my travels. That Michelle woman does look familiar - I've probably seen her on the 415 before.
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Post by Steve80 on May 1, 2015 2:58:02 GMT
You did better than I did in spotting the location of the emergency stop. I'll need to rewatch the episode. Loved the bit with Nadine being "tortured" by her instructor in the West End - "nice pair of shoes" "look at that dress" "isn't that handbag good?" Clever training tactic though. Anyway that was an enjoyable series with a decent mix of characters. I shall have to see if I recognise any of the drivers or instructors on my travels. That Michelle woman does look familiar - I've probably seen her on the 415 before. I was thinking the same about Michelle. I'm sure I seen her before and that was when I first saw her on the previous episode. I'm glad she passed though. I was worried about Nadine in the previous episode especially when she did her assessment check and not only she took a big chunk of the kerb but she kept going , and also the incident with the van on the roundabout where the van didn't give away. You could tell that the van driver was going to cut in front of her at the roundabout and she was right to argue her case but her overall reaction to it was slightly worrying. I felt sympathy for her when she failed so I was pleased when she eventually passed. I think she was more talkative on the camera than the other trainees so you really got a feel for her character. I must admit that I was slightly surprised that Sean passed first time. Only 20 years of age and apparently a bit of a speed freak. Of course, the program doesn't show every part of his driving and I think they showed more of the bad bits than the good. A shame this series is finished. I really hope they do another one soon or anything about London Buses.
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Post by snoggle on May 1, 2015 8:19:15 GMT
I was worried about Nadine in the previous episode especially when she did her assessment check and not only she took a big chunk of the kerb but she kept going , and also the incident with the van on the roundabout where the van didn't give away. You could tell that the van driver was going to cut in front of her at the roundabout and she was right to argue her case but her overall reaction to it was slightly worrying. I felt sympathy for her when she failed so I was pleased when she eventually passed. I think she was more talkative on the camera than the other trainees so you really got a feel for her character. I must admit that I was slightly surprised that Sean passed first time. Only 20 years of age and apparently a bit of a speed freak. Of course, the program doesn't show every part of his driving and I think they showed more of the bad bits than the good. A shame this series is finished. I really hope they do another one soon or anything about London Buses. I think the thing that came through most in the last episode was how important hazard perception is. I'd argue that most average drivers have poor hazard perception and are unable to avoid accidents. Apart from handling a much larger and heavier vehicle the main thing in the bus driver training is raising the candidate's hazard perception and their ability to take avoiding action and develop a safe smooth driving style. I was a bit surprised about Sean but I get a sense he did quite a bit of growing up too given he admitted he'd been a bit "lax" at school and all of a sudden he had a load to learn and to understand. He also said that he'd learnt an enormous amount about reading the road. I've done more than one set of advanced (motorcycle) riding training so I've a bit of understanding about how your hazard perception / road reading skills can develop but obviously it's different in a bus given the size / handling characteristics.
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Post by snoggle on May 6, 2015 14:48:23 GMT
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Post by ServerKing on May 6, 2015 16:02:42 GMT
I've just been told by the Anger Management consellor arranged by my Probation team if I feel confident enough, I can try find something I like to do like driving to keep out of trouble They let you use Google in the mathss / english exam, don't they?
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Post by ServerKing on May 6, 2015 16:14:23 GMT
I wonder if the 192 wasn't in the hands of GAL, Would the instructor of made those comments Ironically it was one of Arriva's EN's wearing GAL temporary vinyls (and probably one of their TUPE'd drivers at the wheel)
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