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Post by thesquirrels on Nov 24, 2015 7:55:38 GMT
Most of Essex is extremely different to vast swathes of London, it is incomparable. I don't see why, nowhere else has free travel for kids because it makes no economic sense Most areas have free (or tapered concessionary) travel for kids *on a means tested basis* *to get to school* because it makes practical and social sense. Those that can, pay. In some ideal world, even in rural areas, children go to their nearest school in their nearest town but the stratified system in place now means that is never, ever going to happen, especially if kids end up going to their second or third choice school. Outside of the London area that might involve some considerable distance. If it is a local authority decision in the allocation system that means a child in, say, Stanford-le-hope needs to travel to Grays to get to school, then I see no problem in the authority assisting that child in enabling them to get there.
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Post by sid on Nov 24, 2015 8:03:39 GMT
I don't see why, nowhere else has free travel for kids because it makes no economic sense Most areas have free (or tapered concessionary) travel for kids *on a means tested basis* *to get to school* because it makes practical and social sense. Those that can, pay. In some ideal world, even in rural areas, children go to their nearest school in their nearest town but the stratified system in place now means that is never, ever going to happen, especially if kids end up going to their second or third choice school. Outside of the London area that might involve some considerable distance. If it is a local authority decision in the allocation system that means a child in, say, Stanford-le-hope needs to travel to Grays to get to school, then I see no problem in the authority assisting that child in enabling them to get there. I agree in a situation like that but it's a world away from blithely giving free travel to all and sundry which has to be paid for by somebody
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Post by snoggle on Nov 24, 2015 9:58:36 GMT
Most areas have free (or tapered concessionary) travel for kids *on a means tested basis* *to get to school* because it makes practical and social sense. Those that can, pay. In some ideal world, even in rural areas, children go to their nearest school in their nearest town but the stratified system in place now means that is never, ever going to happen, especially if kids end up going to their second or third choice school. Outside of the London area that might involve some considerable distance. If it is a local authority decision in the allocation system that means a child in, say, Stanford-le-hope needs to travel to Grays to get to school, then I see no problem in the authority assisting that child in enabling them to get there. I agree in a situation like that but it's a world away from blithely giving free travel to all and sundry which has to be paid for by somebody Would you also scrap - the 60+ Pass - the Veterans Pass - the Apprecentices Concession scheme - the Income Support Bus and Tram Concession scheme - all Railcard concessions - Jobcentre Plus travel discount ?? - the pre 0930 availability of the Freedom Pass on TfL services After all these all cost "somebody" some money to fund free or reduced rate travel even where someone pays something (e.g. buys a Railcard). Genuine question btw - interested to know if you agree with any form of concession for non pensioners.
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Post by sid on Nov 24, 2015 10:05:36 GMT
I agree in a situation like that but it's a world away from blithely giving free travel to all and sundry which has to be paid for by somebody Would you also scrap - the 60+ Pass - the Veterans Pass - the Apprecentices Concession scheme - the Income Support Bus and Tram Concession scheme - all Railcard concessions - Jobcentre Plus travel discount ?? - the pre 0930 availability of the Freedom Pass on TfL services After all these all cost "somebody" some money to fund free or reduced rate travel even where someone pays something (e.g. buys a Railcard). Genuine question btw - interested to know if you agree with any form of concession for non pensioners. I have no problem with any of those it's only what happens elsewhere in the UK, it is only London that has free child travel and obviously it's got to be paid for by somebody
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Post by snowman on Nov 24, 2015 10:29:48 GMT
I agree in a situation like that but it's a world away from blithely giving free travel to all and sundry which has to be paid for by somebody Would you also scrap - the 60+ Pass - the Veterans Pass - the Apprecentices Concession scheme - the Income Support Bus and Tram Concession scheme - all Railcard concessions - Jobcentre Plus travel discount ?? - the pre 0930 availability of the Freedom Pass on TfL services After all these all cost "somebody" some money to fund free or reduced rate travel even where someone pays something (e.g. buys a Railcard). Genuine question btw - interested to know if you agree with any form of concession for non pensioners. Yes and no. I disagree with 60+ as free travel before retirement age when people are still working (or have made a lifestyle choice to not work), but this age group is much more likely to vote than 20 somethings I think Veterans should be national not a local scheme. When I was made redundant a year ago I claimed unemployment benefit, but didn't qualify for those others. I looked hard and got job month later, but it seems the passes are only given if you forgot to save or dont throw all your efforts at securing a job and get one in a reasonable time. I had to pay my own travel expenses so I disagree as rules are barmy and discourage going for interviews. Yes I agree to passes provided they are restricted to services that have space and not which then need a capacity increase as TfL effectively need to pay twice, loss of ticket revenue and additional capacity
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Post by sid on Nov 24, 2015 12:37:16 GMT
Just to add that I would stop the freedom pass before 09.30 as the bus network just cannot cope and fare paying passengers are left behind.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2015 16:27:03 GMT
The beauty of Oyster of course is that if it were stolen then a phonecall would be enough to have it deactivated. Not that this would prevent one kid stealing an oyster from another, sometimes kids are just [***ts] like that. So far as I remember from my school days, where buses would routinely refuse point blank to stop for us, kids slipping in through the exit doors, handing passes through windows for a second showing to the driver, windows etched and seat backs scratched to merry hell, fireworks being thrown through the exit doors into the lower saloon, fireworks let off on the upper deck, at least one stabbing.. oh, yes, we were all paying for our travel at that time - this was the 149/259/279 corridor around the turn of the millennium. I still use the routes along that corridor regularly and the standard of behaviour has improved dramatically. I was living in Hackney around that time, but I remember wanting to take a ride on those newfangled DLPs appearing on the 149 to see what all the fuss was about... but kids behaviour has improved somewhat as they are distracted by apps and the like... they can at least upload a fight or stabbing to Vine now some behaviours you will never end - kids forcing their way on thru exit doors when its busy on the 41 will be with us for life I miss the hustle and bustle of North London, it's way too quiet in Brentford. Aside from the odd mass brawl involving Somali girls outside Brentford School, nothing happens much. Most of these kids have mum or dad pick them up in the Galaxy or X6 and a few queue patiently for the 195 Some Canadian buses actually have an alarm that sounds if somebody boards from the middle door.
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Post by ServerKing on Nov 24, 2015 17:15:07 GMT
I was living in Hackney around that time, but I remember wanting to take a ride on those newfangled DLPs appearing on the 149 to see what all the fuss was about... but kids behaviour has improved somewhat as they are distracted by apps and the like... they can at least upload a fight or stabbing to Vine now some behaviours you will never end - kids forcing their way on thru exit doors when its busy on the 41 will be with us for life I miss the hustle and bustle of North London, it's way too quiet in Brentford. Aside from the odd mass brawl involving Somali girls outside Brentford School, nothing happens much. Most of these kids have mum or dad pick them up in the Galaxy or X6 and a few queue patiently for the 195 Some Canadian buses actually have an alarm that sounds if somebody boards from the middle door. With our schoolkids, they would have to disable it (no pun intended) as it's the main door for 1. wheelchair and buggy users 2. schoolkids on the 41 It would be going off all the time
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2015 17:29:47 GMT
Some Canadian buses actually have an alarm that sounds if somebody boards from the middle door. With our schoolkids, they would have to disable it (no pun intended) as it's the main door for 1. wheelchair and buggy users 2. schoolkids on the 41 It would be going off all the time I think you're right there, Serverking. They do have buggy and wheelchair bus users in Canada. I'll have to ask my friend how they deal with that exactly. Anyone here use Gumtree? Nothing demonstrates this something-for-nothing mentality like that. You can put pretty much anything on Gumtree as a Freebie, and someone will come and get it. It could be worthless junk, but as long as it's free! Oh, there's an email response to one of my ads now... Charging actual money on the other hand. It's gotta be a complete bargain, we're talking really low prices, otherwise why should anyone waste their time?
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Post by Red Dragon on Nov 24, 2015 17:38:38 GMT
Most of Essex is extremely different to vast swathes of London, it is incomparable. I don't see why, nowhere else has free travel for kids because it makes no economic sense Ummmm... it clears the road, it keeps attendance up, it encourages those kids to touch in and not try to evade. Children are more likely to behave when faced with having free travel withdrawn and having to pay, compared with having to pay a little bit more.
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Post by sid on Nov 24, 2015 17:44:07 GMT
I don't see why, nowhere else has free travel for kids because it makes no economic sense Ummmm... it clears the road, it keeps attendance up, it encourages those kids to touch in and not try to evade. Children are more likely to behave when faced with having free travel withdrawn and having to pay, compared with having to pay a little bit more. But it doesn't clear any roads, attendances have nothing to do with free bus travel and as for making things free so people don't avoid paying...........well how far do you go down that road? There seems to be no evidence of children behaving better because of free travel, quite the opposite in fact.
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Post by ServerKing on Nov 24, 2015 18:48:50 GMT
With our schoolkids, they would have to disable it (no pun intended) as it's the main door for 1. wheelchair and buggy users 2. schoolkids on the 41 It would be going off all the time I think you're right there, Serverking. They do have buggy and wheelchair bus users in Canada. I'll have to ask my friend how they deal with that exactly. Anyone here use Gumtree? I avoid Gumtree like the plague... Unlike some people
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Post by vjaska on Nov 24, 2015 19:11:37 GMT
Ummmm... it clears the road, it keeps attendance up, it encourages those kids to touch in and not try to evade. Children are more likely to behave when faced with having free travel withdrawn and having to pay, compared with having to pay a little bit more. But it doesn't clear any roads, attendances have nothing to do with free bus travel and as for making things free so people don't avoid paying...........well how far do you go down that road? There seems to be no evidence of children behaving better because of free travel, quite the opposite in fact. I don't think there is any evidence to suggest that they behave more or misbehave more because of free travel. Kids behaved and misbehaved before free travel and kids will continue to behave and misbehave after it was introduced.
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Post by sid on Nov 24, 2015 20:51:13 GMT
[/quote]
If you still haven't grasped my point by now then I give up!!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2015 21:40:53 GMT
I think you're right there, Serverking. They do have buggy and wheelchair bus users in Canada. I'll have to ask my friend how they deal with that exactly. Anyone here use Gumtree? I avoid Gumtree like the plague... Unlike some people LOL. You have mad Photoshop skills, ServerKing. (I would've responded sooner, but my six year old iPhone doesn't like Javabucket and its Javasludge. )
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