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Post by T.R. on Aug 30, 2016 16:12:26 GMT
There were many occasions today I noticed no second crew member on LTs,... ...I'm imagining a lot of CAs have left and they're not being replaced as they leave. Correct. Unfortunately this will remain the case for the rest of the week. Now would be a good time to get some snaps, as come ~6-7pm on Friday...
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Post by snoggle on Aug 30, 2016 16:33:42 GMT
There were many occasions today I noticed no second crew member on LTs,... ...I'm imagining a lot of CAs have left and they're not being replaced as they leave. Correct. Unfortunately this will remain the case for the rest of the week. Now would be a good time to get some snaps, as come ~6-7pm on Friday... Any comments from passengers about the CAs / open platforms being removed?
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Post by vjaska on Aug 30, 2016 17:42:16 GMT
There were many occasions today I noticed no second crew member on LTs, On LT181 while boiling to death and looking for any source of fresh air I noticed the lack of open platform despite it being a Tuesday. Then while running for a 10 the driver saw me trying to get the bus but closed the doors, I walked to the rear platform hoping it was open but the lack of CA on that route put an end to that plan. I'm imagining a lot of CAs have left and they're not being replaced as they leave. Same here - only saw one on an 11 whilst I was in Central London the other day.
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Post by T.R. on Aug 31, 2016 9:41:05 GMT
Correct. Unfortunately this will remain the case for the rest of the week. Now would be a good time to get some snaps, as come ~6-7pm on Friday... Any comments from passengers about the CAs / open platforms being removed? The most common comments are "what's the point of these buses without the platform" "can't they just keep the door open anyway because the bus is hot" "What's going to happen to you" / "are they going to find jobs for everyone" (usually said by the regulars)
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Post by sid on Aug 31, 2016 10:18:51 GMT
Any comments from passengers about the CAs / open platforms being removed? The most common comments are "what's the point of these buses without the platform" "can't they just keep the door open anyway because the bus is hot" "What's going to happen to you" / "are they going to find jobs for everyone" (usually said by the regulars) That is a good question, the whole point of the bus is an open platform. I don't see why there can't be a 'use at your own risk' open platform without CA's, the more H&S minded can use the front and rear doors.
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Post by SILENCED on Aug 31, 2016 10:45:18 GMT
]That is a good question, the whole point of the bus is an open platform. I don't see why there can't be a 'use at your own risk' open platform without CA's, the more H&S minded can use the front and rear doors. Regrettably "at your own risk" is not the world we live in today. If someone was to fall, they would claim the company was negligent for leaving the door open which would otherwise have stopped their injuries. As such, insurance premiums will rocket if an operator allowed doors to be open, and they would end up losing routes to one that does not. The basic fact is the open platform is a big design flaw, that London has to live with until the buses get withdrawn.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2016 20:20:00 GMT
]That is a good question, the whole point of the bus is an open platform. I don't see why there can't be a 'use at your own risk' open platform without CA's, the more H&S minded can use the front and rear doors. Regrettably "at your own risk" is not the world we live in today. If someone was to fall, they would claim the company was negligent for leaving the door open which would otherwise have stopped their injuries. As such, insurance premiums will rocket if an operator allowed doors to be open, and they would end up losing routes to one that does not. The basic fact is the open platform is a big design flaw, that London has to live with until the buses get withdrawn. The thing I find remarkable is that no-one has come out ons said BoJo was incredibly short-sighted in bringing these to London considering the extra staffing costs etc... I wonder if the contract side of it (having to order more under Sadiq Khan) has anything to do with it...
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Post by snoggle on Aug 31, 2016 21:18:14 GMT
The thing I find remarkable is that no-one has come out ons said BoJo was incredibly short-sighted in bringing these to London considering the extra staffing costs etc... I wonder if the contract side of it (having to order more under Sadiq Khan) has anything to do with it... It has been said a very great deal by London politicians over many years. It's also been said by a couple of London based journalists who put in a bit of effort on London / transport / City Hall matters. Most of the mainstream media is clueless and the rest of the country couldn't care. Nowadays Boris has gone so he's got nothing to defend nor reason to speak. Those who were Boris's opponents are now in power and have moved on and will no doubt have their own successes and failures to account for. The only comment I've heard is from newly elected Tory AM Keith Prince whingeing about the loss of the rear platform facility (so not really in tune with your observation). Let's be brutally honest - it's a marginal facility offered on a handful of routes 5 days a week. For most users of NB4Ls it's an utter irrelevance. Mr Prince's role in life appears to be one of "whingeing" as I've yet to hear a single positive word about anything emerge from his lips. I don't expect him to be nice about Mayor Khan or the Labour Party but he's wholly negative and depressing.
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Post by vjaska on Aug 31, 2016 23:31:24 GMT
The thing I find remarkable is that no-one has come out ons said BoJo was incredibly short-sighted in bringing these to London considering the extra staffing costs etc... I wonder if the contract side of it (having to order more under Sadiq Khan) has anything to do with it... It has been said a very great deal by London politicians over many years. It's also been said by a couple of London based journalists who put in a bit of effort on London / transport / City Hall matters. Most of the mainstream media is clueless and the rest of the country couldn't care. Nowadays Boris has gone so he's got nothing to defend nor reason to speak. Those who were Boris's opponents are now in power and have moved on and will no doubt have their own successes and failures to account for. The only comment I've heard is from newly elected Tory AM Keith Prince whingeing about the loss of the rear platform facility (so not really in tune with your observation). Let's be brutally honest - it's a marginal facility offered on a handful of routes 5 days a week. For most users of NB4Ls it's an utter irrelevance. Mr Prince's role in life appears to be one of "whingeing" as I've yet to hear a single positive word about anything emerge from his lips. I don't expect him to be nice about Mayor Khan or the Labour Party but he's wholly negative and depressing. Why doesn't someone tell him that there will still be open platforms on the 15
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Post by snoggle on Sept 1, 2016 8:31:08 GMT
Why doesn't someone tell him that there will still be open platforms on the 15 To misquote the Purple One "My name is (keith) Prince and I am moany. My name is Prince the one and moany" Wah wah not a Boris Bus Wah wah not continuing beloved Boris's policy Wah wah evil Labour Party Mayor being more cost efficient than a Tory Mayor Wah wah commie Ken kept the last few Routemasters (but Boris removed half of them from service) Wah wah wah wah wah wah moan moan moan moan
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Post by sid on Sept 1, 2016 8:42:39 GMT
]That is a good question, the whole point of the bus is an open platform. I don't see why there can't be a 'use at your own risk' open platform without CA's, the more H&S minded can use the front and rear doors. Regrettably "at your own risk" is not the world we live in today. If someone was to fall, they would claim the company was negligent for leaving the door open which would otherwise have stopped their injuries. As such, insurance premiums will rocket if an operator allowed doors to be open, and they would end up losing routes to one that does not. The basic fact is the open platform is a big design flaw, that London has to live with until the buses get withdrawn. Contrary to popular belief you cannot claim compensation for everything and open platform buses continue to operate on the 15H.
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Post by sid on Sept 1, 2016 8:45:00 GMT
Regrettably "at your own risk" is not the world we live in today. If someone was to fall, they would claim the company was negligent for leaving the door open which would otherwise have stopped their injuries. As such, insurance premiums will rocket if an operator allowed doors to be open, and they would end up losing routes to one that does not. The basic fact is the open platform is a big design flaw, that London has to live with until the buses get withdrawn. The thing I find remarkable is that no-one has come out ons said BoJo was incredibly short-sighted in bringing these to London considering the extra staffing costs etc... I wonder if the contract side of it (having to order more under Sadiq Khan) has anything to do with it... All Boris has done is try to improve bus travel and it could just as easily be said that Mr Khan is the short sighted one for getting rid of CA's although he doesn't appear to be saying much on the subject.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2016 10:19:02 GMT
The thing I find remarkable is that no-one has come out ons said BoJo was incredibly short-sighted in bringing these to London considering the extra staffing costs etc... I wonder if the contract side of it (having to order more under Sadiq Khan) has anything to do with it... All Boris has done is try to improve bus travel and it could just as easily be said that Mr Khan is the short sighted one for getting rid of CA's although he doesn't appear to be saying much on the subject. I respectfully disagree... I don't think he attempted to "improve" bus travel at all. The NB4L was, IMO, a pet project for BoJo (the number of times he was posing with the bloody things) and an attempt to score points off Ken (bendy buses were an equally bad idea though as a transport user himself, I'd argue it was actually Ken who genuinely attempted to improve bus travel) If you ask almost anyone in the transport sector, (driverless trains on LU?!) he has actually been trying to eradicate staff numbers for years, so bringing crewed vehicles out was never going to be about bucking that trend which for me further supports my theory it was a mere pet project. Don't for one second think crewed routemasters would remain under BoJo, he knew he was going and had nothing to lose with NB4L He's not as stupid as he makes out though, the CA axing may only have started since Khan took over, but this had to have been well in the pipeline before the mayoral elections even started... and when the last CA goes I'll be waiting for Boris to say "staff cuts since Khan took over" ๐
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Post by sid on Sept 1, 2016 10:30:28 GMT
All Boris has done is try to improve bus travel and it could just as easily be said that Mr Khan is the short sighted one for getting rid of CA's although he doesn't appear to be saying much on the subject. I respectfully disagree... I don't think he attempted to "improve" bus travel at all. The NB4L was, IMO, a pet project for BoJo (the number of times he was posing with the bloody things) and an attempt to score points off Ken (bendy buses were an equally bad idea though as a transport user himself, I'd argue it was actually Ken who genuinely attempted to improve bus travel) If you ask almost anyone in the transport sector, (driverless trains on LU?!) he has actually been trying to eradicate staff numbers for years, so bringing crewed vehicles out was never going to be about bucking that trend which for me further supports my theory it was a mere pet project. Don't for one second think crewed routemasters would remain under BoJo, he knew he was going and had nothing to lose with NB4L He's not as stupid as he makes out though, the CA axing may only have started since Khan took over, but this had to have been well in the pipeline before the mayoral elections even started... and when the last CA goes I'll be waiting for Boris to say "staff cuts since Khan took over" ๐ You are perfectly entitled to disagree but the bottom line is that he made his intention to introduce a 'new routemaster' in his election manifesto and he kept his promise. On the first full conversion of the 24 the CA and the open platform were very popular with users although sadly without these features the bus is all rather pointless.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2016 10:48:23 GMT
I respectfully disagree... I don't think he attempted to "improve" bus travel at all. The NB4L was, IMO, a pet project for BoJo (the number of times he was posing with the bloody things) and an attempt to score points off Ken (bendy buses were an equally bad idea though as a transport user himself, I'd argue it was actually Ken who genuinely attempted to improve bus travel) If you ask almost anyone in the transport sector, (driverless trains on LU?!) he has actually been trying to eradicate staff numbers for years, so bringing crewed vehicles out was never going to be about bucking that trend which for me further supports my theory it was a mere pet project. Don't for one second think crewed routemasters would remain under BoJo, he knew he was going and had nothing to lose with NB4L He's not as stupid as he makes out though, the CA axing may only have started since Khan took over, but this had to have been well in the pipeline before the mayoral elections even started... and when the last CA goes I'll be waiting for Boris to say "staff cuts since Khan took over" ๐ You are perfectly entitled to disagree but the bottom line is that he made his intention to introduce a 'new routemaster' in his election manifesto and he kept his promise. On the first full conversion of the 24 the CA and the open platform were very popular with users although sadly without these features the bus is all rather pointless. Yes and I rate him highly for keeping his promise but that doesn't mean it wasn't a pet project and sadly the evidence points to this being doomed to fail from the start. I think his plan was to rid of CA's eventually anyway, either that or he was incredibly short-sighted in not appreciating the cost of additional staff during times of tight budgeting. Of course now he is pandering around in a different role he is free to blame someone else. I may be wrong but the original routemasters were removed from London's streets because they were deemed unsuitable (safety?) for our streets, and now these expensive new ones are unsuitable because the rear door can't be used like a routemaster. For safety reasons. Because there is no CA. You couldn't make it up lol
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