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Post by sid on Sept 1, 2016 10:57:23 GMT
You are perfectly entitled to disagree but the bottom line is that he made his intention to introduce a 'new routemaster' in his election manifesto and he kept his promise. On the first full conversion of the 24 the CA and the open platform were very popular with users although sadly without these features the bus is all rather pointless. Yes and I rate him highly for keeping his promise but that doesn't mean it wasn't a pet project and sadly the evidence points to this being doomed to fail from the start. I think his plan was to rid of CA's eventually anyway, either that or he was incredibly short-sighted in not appreciating the cost of additional staff during times of tight budgeting. Of course now he is pandering around in a different role he is free to blame someone else. I may be wrong but the original routemasters were removed from London's streets because they were deemed unsuitable (safety?) for our streets, and now these expensive new ones are unsuitable because the rear door can't be used like a routemaster. For safety reasons. Because there is no CA. You couldn't make it up lol I think any safety issues are a complete red herring.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2016 11:05:36 GMT
Yes and I rate him highly for keeping his promise but that doesn't mean it wasn't a pet project and sadly the evidence points to this being doomed to fail from the start. I think his plan was to rid of CA's eventually anyway, either that or he was incredibly short-sighted in not appreciating the cost of additional staff during times of tight budgeting. Of course now he is pandering around in a different role he is free to blame someone else. I may be wrong but the original routemasters were removed from London's streets because they were deemed unsuitable (safety?) for our streets, and now these expensive new ones are unsuitable because the rear door can't be used like a routemaster. For safety reasons. Because there is no CA. You couldn't make it up lol I think any safety issues are a complete red herring. I don't, not when you consider the idiots that use the platforms completely inappropriately. Then claim it's not their fault when they tried to cross three lanes of traffic and board as the lights are turning green so get dragged to kingdom come. The stories you see are the worst, imagine all the ones that didn't go reported! The open platform, CA or not, puts far too much responsibility on the driver IMO.
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Post by sid on Sept 1, 2016 11:15:45 GMT
I think any safety issues are a complete red herring. I don't, not when you consider the idiots that use the platforms completely inappropriately. Then claim it's not their fault when they tried to cross three lanes of traffic and board as the lights are turning green so get dragged to kingdom come. The stories you see are the worst, imagine all the ones that didn't go reported! The open platform, CA or not, puts far too much responsibility on the driver IMO. I can't agree with that, they still operate on the 15H without any problem.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Sept 1, 2016 11:40:09 GMT
I don't, not when you consider the idiots that use the platforms completely inappropriately. Then claim it's not their fault when they tried to cross three lanes of traffic and board as the lights are turning green so get dragged to kingdom come. The stories you see are the worst, imagine all the ones that didn't go reported! The open platform, CA or not, puts far too much responsibility on the driver IMO. I can't agree with that, they still operate on the 15H without any problem. However the 15H is a far smaller route than any of the LT routes, and that automatically reduces the chance of a loonatic trying to board the bus inappropriately. Not to mention the 15H is also mostly used by tourists or people on a day out as opposed to average people who use LT routes.
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Post by sid on Sept 1, 2016 11:46:39 GMT
I can't agree with that, they still operate on the 15H without any problem. However the 15H is a far smaller route than any of the LT routes, and that automatically reduces the chance of a loonatic trying to board the bus inappropriately. Not to mention the 15H is also mostly used by tourists or people on a day out as opposed to average people who use LT routes. But either it's safe or it isn't, and clearly it is. Anyway I would think tourists would be likely to have an accident.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2016 11:47:00 GMT
I don't, not when you consider the idiots that use the platforms completely inappropriately. Then claim it's not their fault when they tried to cross three lanes of traffic and board as the lights are turning green so get dragged to kingdom come. The stories you see are the worst, imagine all the ones that didn't go reported! The open platform, CA or not, puts far too much responsibility on the driver IMO. I can't agree with that, they still operate on the 15H without any problem. Those stories were well highlighted and the 15H is not exactly a commuter route as such, it's pretty much a tourist attraction considering the complete lack of them, not exactly the numbers of yesteryear. We are already getting stories of people falling out of and into the new routemasters (I remember when one appeared on the 38 it was predictably one of the first news items about them). Nothing much changes, it's an open platform designed for misuse. You don't see people dashing across moving traffic to board a standard bus and because of such behaviours the routemaster is always a safety risk as designed. Of course as you mention the buses now run completely not as designed but that adds weight to the argument that they are a waste. The irony is that CAs didn't make much difference to the safety aspect as you can't change peoples' behaviours... they alert the driver should an accident happen but they can't be prevented which is why in this city these vehicle types should never have been reintroduced
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Post by sid on Sept 1, 2016 11:49:46 GMT
I can't agree with that, they still operate on the 15H without any problem. Those stories were well highlighted and the 15H is not exactly a commuter route as such, it's pretty much a tourist attraction considering the complete lack of them, not exactly the numbers of yesteryear. We are already getting stories of people falling out of and into the new routemasters (I remember when one appeared on the 38 it was predictably one of the first news items about them). Nothing much changes, it's an open platform designed for misuse. You don't see people dashing across moving traffic to board a standard bus and because of such behaviours the routemaster is always a safety risk as designed. Of course as you mention the buses now run completely not as designed but that adds weight to the argument that they are a waste. The irony is that CAs didn't make much difference to the safety aspect as you can't change peoples' behaviours... they alert the driver should an accident happen but they can't be prevented which is why in this city these vehicle types should never have been reintroduced I've seen very few reports of platform accidents on LTs although inevitably there will be a few but if people misuse them it's down to them, the CA just gives the starting signal. Most people can think for themselves and don't need all this nanny state attitude.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2016 11:50:52 GMT
However the 15H is a far smaller route than any of the LT routes, and that automatically reduces the chance of a loonatic trying to board the bus inappropriately. Not to mention the 15H is also mostly used by tourists or people on a day out as opposed to average people who use LT routes. But either it's safe or it isn't, and clearly it is. Anyway I would think tourists would be likely to have an accident. Clearly from your comment you use the vehicles in a responsible way, but the same cannot be said for others. I think we've all witnessed the risks people are prepared to take using these things. If it were completely safe TfL would run the buses OPO with the platform open as designed.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2016 11:57:09 GMT
Those stories were well highlighted and the 15H is not exactly a commuter route as such, it's pretty much a tourist attraction considering the complete lack of them, not exactly the numbers of yesteryear. We are already getting stories of people falling out of and into the new routemasters (I remember when one appeared on the 38 it was predictably one of the first news items about them). Nothing much changes, it's an open platform designed for misuse. You don't see people dashing across moving traffic to board a standard bus and because of such behaviours the routemaster is always a safety risk as designed. Of course as you mention the buses now run completely not as designed but that adds weight to the argument that they are a waste. The irony is that CAs didn't make much difference to the safety aspect as you can't change peoples' behaviours... they alert the driver should an accident happen but they can't be prevented which is why in this city these vehicle types should never have been reintroduced I've seen very few reports of platform accidents on LTs although inevitably there will be a few but if people misuse them it's down to them, the CA just gives the starting signal. Most people can think for themselves and don't need all this nanny state attitude. Actually I believe it is a specific responsibility (possibly even a legal requirement) of the CA to have the driver stop the bus in the event of an accident. On the old routemasters the conductor did this by ringing the bell numerous times in succession. This was a frequent occurrence.
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Post by westhamgeezer on Sept 1, 2016 12:26:05 GMT
Is it the last day for all CA's tomorrow?
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Post by snoggle on Sept 1, 2016 15:22:03 GMT
Is it the last day for all CA's tomorrow? Yes but I suspect it'll be a struggle to see any. Comments in other posts suggest many have gone already and, of course, there's no point in replacing them because the buses can operate without them. Operators are probably pleased to see them go - saves on wages if they leave early.
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Post by SILENCED on Sept 1, 2016 19:01:36 GMT
Regrettably "at your own risk" is not the world we live in today. If someone was to fall, they would claim the company was negligent for leaving the door open which would otherwise have stopped their injuries. As such, insurance premiums will rocket if an operator allowed doors to be open, and they would end up losing routes to one that does not. The basic fact is the open platform is a big design flaw, that London has to live with until the buses get withdrawn. Contrary to popular belief you cannot claim compensation for everything and open platform buses continue to operate on the 15H. There is no door on the 15H ... and TfL pay way over the odds for the route ... so probably covers a hefty insurance premium. Obviously you have not spoken to personal injury lawyers ... where there is a blame there is a claim ... and it is never the individuals fault.
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Post by sid on Sept 1, 2016 19:11:29 GMT
Contrary to popular belief you cannot claim compensation for everything and open platform buses continue to operate on the 15H. There is no door on the 15H ... and TfL pay way over the odds for the route ... so probably covers a hefty insurance premium. Obviously you have not spoken to personal injury lawyers ... where there is a blame there is a claim ... and it is never the individuals fault. I know that there is no door on the 15H that was my point. You've hit the nail on the head, 'where there is blame' and where there isn't there is no compo!
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Post by sid on Sept 1, 2016 19:11:45 GMT
Contrary to popular belief you cannot claim compensation for everything and open platform buses continue to operate on the 15H. There is no door on the 15H ... and TfL pay way over the odds for the route ... so probably covers a hefty insurance premium. Obviously you have not spoken to personal injury lawyers ... where there is a blame there is a claim ... and it is never the individuals fault. I know that there is no door on the 15H that was my point. You've hit the nail on the head, 'where there is blame' and where there isn't there is no compo!
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Post by SILENCED on Sept 1, 2016 19:16:13 GMT
There is no door on the 15H ... and TfL pay way over the odds for the route ... so probably covers a hefty insurance premium. Obviously you have not spoken to personal injury lawyers ... where there is a blame there is a claim ... and it is never the individuals fault. I know that there is no door on the 15H that was my point. You've hit the nail on the head, 'where there is blame' and where there isn't there is no compo! And the blame will always be something the driver did, or something the company does not have in place/did not do .... if there is no compo ... the lawyers will not take the case on .... so they find (or dare I say invent) one
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