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Post by Alex on Feb 6, 2015 0:54:39 GMT
Fares go up every year. Operators profits go up every year. New drivers money goes down every year. How on earth is that fair? This is the single best quote in this thread - short, simple and to the point. I'd agree that all money (not just new starters) goes down every year - as the pay increases I hear of don't even match inflation. I back the industrial action, you can argue that the different arrangements from company to company are how the tender arrangements work, but on a general level I think bus drivers should take a stand. I think this business of bringing people from Romania and such places is appalling, I think waiting eight years to get onto the highest rate of pay is appalling, and I think the hourly rates some companies advertise are appalling. The whole setup is against bus drivers and these companies being greedy is making the lives of thousands of people very difficult. I appreciate the work that bus drivers do, I take my hat off to them and think that conditions need to drastically improve. If ALL companies get on the same wavelength (not sure how this would work legally with competition laws etc) then things would improve for the drivers (maybe this sort of thing is what Unite are angling for as opposed to a new LT). If all the tender bids went up a bit to allow for this TfL would still have to pick one. TfL are good at chucking money away on LU (such as the SSR signalling upgrade) so a bit more here and there on the buses would be manageable. Sorry to come across as a bit thick or missing points, but on a basic discussion level, the deal for bus drivers is nowhere near good enough and things need to improve. Credit where it's due.
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Post by Alex on Jan 26, 2015 0:35:46 GMT
Maybe they could extend the N155 to Sutton doing the 164 route from Morden to Sutton? Or make a N164, Sutton to Morden normal line of route then 163 route to Wimbledon Chase so to serve the other side of Raynes Park then Wimbledon Chase to Putney but via south Wimbledon, colliers wood, Tooting Broadway then 270 route to Putney bridge. Thoughts? Maybe even extend the N155 or the new N164 to stand at Belmont on the 280 stand Well - this reminded me of this idea from way back in 2008 - it's quite similar tangytango.proboards.com/thread/6234/idea-n163Plus your idea of a N155 via the 164 was reality once (hope this link is ok): mjcarchive.www.idnet.com/times/nights/N155%2019990730%20R%204582.pdf
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Post by Alex on Dec 23, 2014 16:24:41 GMT
I think the 58 would be an interesting idea - like you say Ryan it wouldn't take an awful amount to put in. I think more people would travel now than they did a few years ago when the previous N58 service ran, so an interesting idea.
Snoggle - thanks for the picure.
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Post by Alex on Dec 23, 2014 0:30:39 GMT
Snoggle - thank you. I know you have much knowledge so appreciate the reply (as I would from all members too) - interested to hear of the N238, I hadn't heard of this one.
Out of this and the 104, I'd have picked the 104 to be the night route - as it serves areas away from the main night bus corridors (238 ends up along Barking Road) but I take the point on having more than one town centre area being a sensible choice. Indeed the 238 suits this better than the 104.
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Post by Alex on Dec 22, 2014 23:57:19 GMT
The 58 had a night service which was withdrawn due to lack of use. How much demand is there for a night service along that road? That deffo crossed my mind - indeed I mentioned about the 58 - but had also wondered if useage on the rest of the route had a bearing. I'm glad that TfL at least tested the water on various ideas (the aforementioned 58, 69, 101 and 106 night routes - another that I recall was the night 75 from about the same time) and generally that things have taken a sensible twist to passenger demand - the single deck experiments of 15 years ago or so is another idea I think of (and glad things were changed back in many cases) and also that frequencies generally go up instead of down, and we have more 24 hour routes. So it's just a question to see the opinion of the members, not saying TfL have done anything wrong or neglecting areas
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Post by Alex on Dec 22, 2014 23:33:35 GMT
Is it me - or does it seem odd that Green Street doesn't have a night bus?
Looking at TfL useage data and dividing the passenger numbers by kilometres run, the 330, 104, 58 and 238 are well up there (330 is second from top on 9.85 ppkm, 104, 58 and 238 are 5, 6 and 7 in the list) though many other routes carry more overall passengers. How does the Tfl process for making night routes apply, as I can see it's some sort of correlation between the total passenger use against how many people are carried as an average? Also would both ends of Green Street being served by the 25, N86 and N15 have a bearing as this brings a night route within the reach of most people?
Green Street is a massively populated area, and my question isn't a random one as my girlfriend and her family live nearby there - I spend a lot of time travelling and have pondered this. Also, for interest here's the top 20 of the figures my Excel spreadsheet came up with:
ROUTE USE KM P PER KM W7 5 848 246 535 371 10.92372579 330 3 236 591 328 427 9.854826187 507 4 408 193 457 839 9.628259279 69 9 388 053 1 004 499 9.346005322 104 6 800 183 728 194 9.338422179 58 8 357 069 900 209 9.283476393 238 4 795 766 527 240 9.095982854 EL1 3 372 836 382 784 8.811329627 29 16 886 814 1 935 933 8.722829767 149 15 216 189 1 759 927 8.645920541 271 5 025 370 591 922 8.48991928 35 8 627 473 1 016 972 8.483491188 109 10 691 088 1 297 714 8.238400757 41 8 488 014 1 062 433 7.98922285 243 12 773 477 1 639 500 7.791080817 257 6 297 459 821 525 7.665571955 25 23 674 316 3 110 793 7.610379733 43 12 150 758 1 603 286 7.578659079 133 9 588 567 1 280 397 7.488745288 207 13 556 997 1 815 033 7.46928403
(This is just daytime routes, as I wanted to see these v which night routes were provided to make a comparison)
I realise that Green Street has had a night route before - the 58 was 24 hour for a few years - so how come things didn't work in reality (to make the service worthwhile)? I believe that the 58, 69, 101 and 106 gained night routes at around the same time and only the 69 still exists - on the same formula the N69 (as it were) carries many people per km - 4.54, second place behind the N35.
Sorry if talking about one street seems a bit random but I spend a lot of time there so has crossed my mind, and also a few of the 'outer London' night routes seem to be earning their keep in recent years - N69 being one, so would an idea of a service along this road at night be a sensible idea. I know an N330 may be asking a bit much (though useful, both ends of the route have regular night buses on the 25, N86, N15) but a N104 seems a reasonable idea - the Lonsdale Avenue area is away from night routes too.
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Post by Alex on Nov 6, 2014 8:53:27 GMT
Well, I contacted TfL and they sent me the following email:
Thanks for your email of 20 October about the availability of TfL “working” bus timetables or bus operator duty schedules. I have contacted our team who are responsible for additions and updates to the TfL website as you mention that there was a plan to publish this information online. To date, they have no record of any upcoming plan to bus operator duty schedules to our website. I’m sorry to disappoint you in this way
Which is unusual, as it had said (as mentioned) on the Timetable Graveyard that these would be available, first by summer 2014 and then by late 2014, which it still says. May try another way to email TfL, maybe I got through to the people who purely deal with the upkeep of their website.......
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Post by Alex on Oct 16, 2014 11:01:25 GMT
I realise this is quite a thread bump (from January) but I read that TfL had planned to publish these on their own site by the summer......
Does anyone know if this is still happening? Summer has most definitely gone now and I can't find them on the TfL site......unless I'm doing something wrong (which is always a possibility).....
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Post by Alex on Sept 28, 2014 22:18:56 GMT
Talking of traffic and east London buses - is the main northbound drag through the East Ham shopping area worth avoiding? About a month ago I used the 101 from Beckton Alps to Wanstead Station - only a one off. East Ham was painfully slow - it took 1hr 40mins from East Ham Fire Station to Manor Park Station - I was fuming . If I knew the area better I would have got off way before I was delayed so much but that's what happened..... Is East Ham always bad, or was this a one off?
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Post by Alex on May 12, 2014 14:20:12 GMT
From the working timetables it seems that PD is as follows:
53/122 are together (with school runs) 472/177 are together 291/386 are together
Rest seem to be by themselves.....
BUT - this is only what it looks like on the timetables - may be wrong (I was involved in a thread on here about PD rotas which seems different to the above list), seems to make sense though.
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Post by Alex on Apr 26, 2014 8:59:40 GMT
Just wondering what everyone think of this, it's something that I have pondered of late. Since being able to see the working timetable schedules, it seems that on some routes the timings aren't done to how long a route would take, but more to the driver's schedule. Two big examples I can think of are the 53 and 122 routes, where it seems some timings are done just to fit two rounders into a 5.5 hour driving spell. The timetable on the 122 seems particularly dodgy, as I have been on the 1743 trip from PD quite a few times where it has run 20-30+ by the time it gets to CPAL (if it gets that far - been tipped off at Forest Hill before with another 122 a mere 28 mins behind - bailed onto the London Overground in that situation ) At the first part of the school holidays I got the same 122 journey, there was LOADS less traffic on the road - even the main pinch point between the A2 junction and Yorkshire Grey (Haimo Road and Green Way bus stops) was clear - but the bus still ran late (despite the driver not hanging about). It made me think the timetable needs to be altered quite a bit! Just wondering if anyone else has thought this, or if there's anything in the theory........
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Post by Alex on Mar 3, 2014 14:18:48 GMT
I have travelled on many bus routes, but out of those I can't say I've travelled on *that* many end to end. Looking through the list and using some quite distant memories here goes:
37, 53, 71, 74, 75, 77, 93, 96, 99, 109, 122, 151, 157, 163, 164, 177, 200, 213, 265, 269, 312, 413, 422, 453, 469, 472, 507, C3, X68, N1, N13, N21 (When it was Foots Cray - Traf. Square), N89, N97, N155
Mainly centre around AL and PD garages, as they are the areas I have lived. Couple of odd ones in there though, like the N13 (used when I visited someone at North Finchley and had to trek home)..........some are regular, I use the (N)53 each worknight to go home and I use the whole 122 in both directions each Wednesday when I go to Croydon.......
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Post by Alex on Jan 29, 2014 16:01:33 GMT
Wow, thanks for posting that up - really interesting stuff! I've never seen these schedules before so it will take a bit of figuring out what's what, but a really good insight into how the bus schedules are put together. Excellent spot
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Post by Alex on Jan 29, 2014 15:56:05 GMT
No, the maps still not back but this is well handy..... traintimes.org.uk/map/london-buses/#1Guessing most of you know about this but I only stumbled across it just now! Very interesting stuff indeed.....
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Post by Alex on Dec 29, 2013 4:05:03 GMT
The timetables are very interesting reading - Mr. Munster really does a brilliant job! Just a quick question though, would these NYE timetables be an accurate reflection if a daytime route got made into a 24 hour route (for example would the timetable be a fair representation of say, an all night 51 or 422, or what-have-you?) - definitely very interesting stuff.
With the N1 thing - that route is absolutely horrible! I live in Plumstead and the N1 goes to the top of my road - but I will always get a 53 and walk the last bit from the station. It is horribly busy from Central London, and while a lot do alight in the Surrey Quays area a fair few do continue along the rest of it. It's not just the busy-ness of it, the route takes forever and round Surrey Quays and Bermondsey seems to take an age.......
However, very impressed with the 53, the condition of the vehicles and the very professional attitude of the staff on it are a credit to PD.
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