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Post by thesquirrels on Nov 4, 2014 21:35:12 GMT
So in 15 years the Kingsland Road has gone from 1 night bus an hour on a Fri/Sat night (N243) to.. 4 each on the 149, 242 and 243 = 12bph, a twelvefold increase. Is there any other corridor that can match that for growth?
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Post by thesquirrels on Nov 2, 2014 21:36:25 GMT
I think the day route extension is a sensible move. Tottenham Hale has a growing population of young renters and students with work/study ties to central London so a direct bus link strikes me as a good idea. I think others on the group have made the suggestion of extending it further, along Watermead Way to IKEA to take some weight off the 192, which could only be a good thing.
I can't comment on how well used the 'top' end of N76 is, but four night buses an hour along Lansdowne Road to NPK always struck me as a bit of an oversupply. I rarely saw a bus on the N76 or 341 carrying more than a handful of passengers north of Bruce Grove. I can imagine Old Street (for Shoreditch etc)/Dalston to Tottenham Hale (for the student digs etc) getting a respectable level of use with the new night service at weekends.
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Post by thesquirrels on Oct 22, 2014 17:42:45 GMT
The W7 needs to have empty buses at Finsbury Park to mop up the loads. They roll off the stand every three minutes at high peak and leave the bus station full to the doors. Camden-Muswell Hill is already covered by the 134, Holloway-Muswell Hill by the 43, Holloway-Crouch End by the 91. They all cope in their own right, though the Finsbury Park-Camden corridor could always do with help. I don't think sending a 15bph route looping round the side streets off Fonthill Road is the way to do it though. Completely agree that the W7 should be left alone. It is really a tube line in disguise and is immensely busy. The W3 is not far behind. What might be interesting is playing a little game with the 153 by extending it under the Stroud Green Road bridge and over the W3 to terminate at Crouch End Broadway. That would add some new links around North London and cover both sides of Finsbury Park. There would be a "challenge" as to quite where a rerouted 153 would stop - do you make it stop near Wells Terrace so people wanting a bus to Crouch End have the choice. You'd need to stick an extra stop near the S Grn Rd bridge for buses headed to Islington / Liv St to avoid the need to loop through either Wells Tce / Station Place bus stations. It is an interesting idea and one I hadn't thought of. Though I'd take a different approach at Finsbury Park and explicitly avoid any 153 stop n/b proximate to Wells Terrace. Imagine the scene of an evening peak in the bus station where an unexplained gap has appeared in all three 'main' SGR routes and 2-300 people see a little 153 popping out under the bridge! Could present a safety issue...
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Post by thesquirrels on Oct 21, 2014 21:46:14 GMT
How about extending the 355 to camberwell. also about extending the W7 to hollwoway nags head or camden town. The W7 needs to have empty buses at Finsbury Park to mop up the loads. They roll off the stand every three minutes at high peak and leave the bus station full to the doors. Camden-Muswell Hill is already covered by the 134, Holloway-Muswell Hill by the 43, Holloway-Crouch End by the 91. They all cope in their own right, though the Finsbury Park-Camden corridor could always do with help. I don't think sending a 15bph route looping round the side streets off Fonthill Road is the way to do it though.
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Post by thesquirrels on Oct 19, 2014 21:33:58 GMT
Walked to Seven Sisters Greater Anglia to Enfield Town (315) 317 to Waltham Cross (VLW99) - slow down the Southbury Road, slow up the A10, even in clear traffic.. just slow generally. 217 to Hoe Lane/A10. (TE???) Walk to Turkey Street Greater Anglia from Turkey Street to Liverpool Street (317). Felt agonisingly slow but we actually ran to time. Walk from Liverpool Street stn to Leadenhall Street. Bishopsgate was being resurfaced today, and the contractors saw fit to close 500m of road in one go with no crossing options! So popping across the road for a bus was off the cards. Wonder how people with poorer mobility fared. 149 to London Bridge stn (DW) Southeastern to Waterloo East (465) Walk to Waterloo SWT 444 (Poole/Weymouth) to Clapham Junction Random rail replacement coach to Hampton Court. (Earlsfield, Wimbers, Raynes Park, Surbiton, T Ditton) Didn't note company or vehicle (white coach, green lettering on side..), but driver was very good, cheery, and didn't half put the foot down once we were on the A3. Noted some Stagecoach E200s coming the other way route branded for somewhere in the Blackwater Valley.. looks like I lucked out! Also my first trip down the Portsmouth Road towards Esher, and was surprised at just how populous the area was. I've wondered in passing why TfL have never seen fit to run a bus out from Kingston, but reckon on balance that it is densely populated enough to sustain a commercial service in any case (as it does!). Also noted a low bridge preventing any deckers from operating routes along there. Walk to Hampton. Sighted a 461 towards Staines carrying a healthy 20+ passengers. I wonder how Abellio's Sunday operations are doing generally. 111 to Hounslow Treaty Centre (Scania). Overtaken by another 111 while boarding, only for that bus never to be seen again. We were already standing room only so no problems with that! Always a bit surprised by how much of this trunk route works through residential streets in Hampton and Hanworth. 203 to Staines (Citaro). Steady progress out of Hounslow (mid evening by now) but getting through the narrow roads of Hatton Lane and through Bedfont was surprisingly sluggish. Bus was very busy as far as Ashford, peak load being as we left Hatton X with standees. Driver very courteous and quite communicative. SWT to Windsor & Eton Riverside (450). As well as the usual 450/455/458 fayre I got to spend a while watching 159s/444s heading through as they have been on diversion with the SWML closures today. Walk from Windsor & Eton Riverside to Central. I am not familiar with Windsor and I did manage to get lost! I had not registered that the large ornate mall lead to the station and carried on... made it back with 90 seconds to spare. FGW on the shuttle to Slough. 165. Even on a Sunday evening this was well patronised with returning daytrippers etc. 35 minute wait for the fast to Paddington. 166. The forthcoming slow had been sufficiently delayed that the fast, notionally 20 minutes later on the tt, was going to win it. Or so we thought... the fast arrived late, left later and came to a halt somewhere outside West Drayton for several minutes without explanation :/ Hammersmith and City to King's Cross St. Pancras Victoria Line to Finsbury Park Piccadilly Line to Manor House 259 home (usual fayre)
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Post by thesquirrels on Oct 2, 2014 23:31:22 GMT
Are they not night routes to areas with no overnight train service? Oops - I missed the N prefix. I would still question whether TfL needs to be running such long services beyond the London boundary even in a fantasy scenario. If we want a night service to Staines then run the 203 all night as it also touches bits of Heathrow Airport so would be valued by locals getting to work. People better than me have tried to run cross boundary night buses into Kent and Herts in the past and failed. There doesn't seem to be any renewed appetite to do so even with many operators having environmentally compliant buses. Interestingly Arriva have yet to run a 24 hour service on any of their strongest routes in Kent Thameside which is a slight surprise as that network does make money and people must go out on the town in places like Dartford, Chatham and Gravesend. It is worth noting that Ensign tried and failed in their bid to run a commercially viable night service over the water in Thurrock - their N73 was axed earlier in the year. The operating area there is smaller and a little more thinly spread but otherwise very similar, certainly demographically and in terms of employment patterns (and a lot of shift work and silly early starts) and leisure pursuits (Grays has a nightlife scene, though the less said about that the better). With that said, Ensign was ekeing an overnight service out of a route running on a 20 minute daytime frequency - many of Arriva's routes around Dartford and Gravesend are considerably more frequent (albeit single deck vs Ensign's tendency towards DDs). The cross-border commercial ventures I'm thinking of are London Central's weekend N60, running from Watford down to Baker Street and the N80/N82 between Baker Street and Gillingham; each ran about every two hours IIRC. The N60 went at the beginning of 2001 with the N80/82 going in May 2002 - through the wayback machine I've dredged up the timetables for them - enjoy web.archive.org/web/20010127194200/http://www.londoncentral.com/nightbus/index.htm
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Post by thesquirrels on Sept 22, 2014 20:26:02 GMT
The bus lane on Haymarket was like riding on a dirt track. The infamous Haymarket, completely forgot about that one, it was indeed in a right state!. Great Portland Street Southbound is pretty bad too. Haymarket is (*finally*) getting some attention - new kerbing, paving and a full resurface are going on at the moment. Lower Regent Street has already been done for n/b traffic, the end result on Haymarket will be the same. Most of the 153 is pretty rough going, even with the new buses - much of the route is on secondary roads poorly maintained by Islington and the Barnsbury area in particular is full of speed tables. The Dart Caetanos, not the highest quality of vehicles in the first place, were shaken to bits. In the last couple of years of those darts it was horrific.
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Post by thesquirrels on Sept 20, 2014 17:55:00 GMT
Withdraw the 7 between Oxford Circus and Russell Square and diverted to Trafalgar Square via the 23. withdraw the 98 between Holborn and Tottenham Court Road Station and diverted to Russell Square via Great Russell Street and Montague Street. The purpose of this is so that the 7 acts as relief for the 23. The 98 will compensate for the lost link and provide new links. How about extending the 7 further from Trafalgar Square down Northumberland Avenue, Embankment and Westminster Bridge to County Hall and Waterloo? Would give a shorter journey vs the 139 between the Oxford Street area and Waterloo (especially when the eastbound Strand jams up) and I think tourists would make use of the direct link to Westminster and County Hall.
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Post by thesquirrels on Sept 16, 2014 22:33:21 GMT
Decision to serve local stops in the Northolt area takes some weight off the 140. Should an express route be used to alleviate local ones? To me that seems to undermine the purpose of them. Reasonable point. I suggested it as a way of providing an express service from the Northolt-Harrow area to Heathrow, rather than helping out that local section of the route, a bit like the X68 south of West Norwood. Thinking again it would attract local traffic to/from Harrow town centre too, which would bog down journey times further for longer distance passengers. So I'd probably cut it down to Northolt Park and South Harrow only. Stirling Corner-Barnet would stay all-stops to keep a local facility linking the Barnet area directly in to Edgware and the hospital. Most of the route along there is quite sparse anyway.
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Post by thesquirrels on Sept 16, 2014 19:28:17 GMT
A thoughtful stab at an X route:
X40, limited stop Heathrow T5 Heathrow Central then fast the the M4 spur, M4 and the A312 The Parkway (Bulls Bridge Tesco) The Parkway, Uxbridge Road (i.e. Hayes by-pass rbt) Yeading, Willow Tree roundabout Northolt Station then all stops via route 140 to Harrow bus station, returning to limited stop operation as follows Northwick Park Hospital Kenton Station Kingsbury Station Burnt Oak Broadway/Stag Lane Edgware Community Hospital Burnt Oak Broadway/Deansbrook Road Edgware High Street Edgware Station Hale Lane/Deans Lane roundabout Apex Corner Stirling Corner then all stops via route 107 to New Barnet Station (idea of extending limited stops to Enfield considered but would probably take the route beyond being reliably operable...! Also, bus from most parts of Enfield to Cockfosters/Oakwood/S'gate for the Piccadilly Line would provide a comparable journey time)
0500-2400, but with early journeys towards the airport, first one probably leaving New Barnet at 0315-ish.. whatever gets people to the Airport for 5. x15 Heathrow-Edgware for most of the day every day, x30 going on to Barnet (hourly Sundays, very early and late). Decision to serve local stops in the Northolt area takes some weight off the 140. As well as the airport link it provides a direct link from the Barnet area to Edgware Community Hospital, along with a Barnet-Edgware short cut to the 107 via B'wood.
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Post by thesquirrels on Sept 13, 2014 9:27:52 GMT
129 to Old Street, via the Blackwall Tunnel, EIDR, Commercial Road, Aldgate, Commercial Street and Great Eastern Street. As well as a new cross-river bus link it gives a new direct link from the City, Stepney and Poplar to the Peninsula and central Greenwich (the link to the former may be better used as the DLR shadows the latter along part of the route, and it is a long-ish way round). Though if the extension to Peckham actually came to light the route may well be too long to manage the lot reliably.
It should not suffer as badly as the 108 with cross-tunnel congestion as it only joins at the tunnel mouth either side rather than sitting in traffic all the way up the A102 to Bromley-by-Bow.
[edit: I note that the route is now officially DD, which I had neglected to check and puts a scupper on that idea. Oh well!]
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Post by thesquirrels on Sept 12, 2014 23:20:18 GMT
Most routes in North London have been relatively stable for years with only a few types seen, especially those run out of the Leaside/Arriva garages. Routes which passed through Capital Citybus gave about the best in terms of variety.
259: Leaside Buses, Cowie Leaside, Arriva London North MCW Metrobus
Capital Citybus/First London/LG MCW Metrobus (ex-Centrewest/London General e.g. GYE 416W) Dennis Dominator/Northern Counties (H2XX KVX) Dennis Arrow (R436-450 ULE, S451/2SLL) (main fleet 1998-2003) Volvo Olympian (NC) (S2XX LLO) Volvo Olympian (Alexander) P2XX MPU Dennis Tridents - TN/TNL from T-reg up Volvo B7TL VNL (mainstay fleet 2003-2011) Volvo B9TL Gemini 2s (current)
I'd think a route like the 407 or 345 would have the most varied fleet since privatisation.
Edit: the 67 will have a list similar to the one above (minus the dominators and arrows which I don't think ever made it onto the route), plus Stagecoach's Olympians and Tridents from it's time with the route - turbotired so can't be bothered to write the list up now!)
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Post by thesquirrels on Sept 11, 2014 18:45:20 GMT
A point to note about the 178 is that school crowding will probably have worsened as a result of ferrying people to Thomas Tallis who might once have lived on the estate, on top of everyone who used the route before to get there. Greenwich Council will have been relocating Ferrier tenants anywhere in the borough it has properties available - that could be anywhere from Thamesmead to Greenwich. TBQH I don't see kids changing schools within the borough once they're settled in one - the only penalty with a longer commute is a time one if they have zip cards.
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Post by thesquirrels on Sept 10, 2014 20:38:49 GMT
With regards to the 14 and insufficient space at Euston, why not extend it to Kings Cross Station and terminate it round the back of the station? I'd seriously question whether there is space at Euston, with the 476 displaced, or Kings Cross for the 14. There can be up to three buses on stand at Warren St given the 14's frequency. The 476 has space for one bus at Euston and the stand space at KX is really very limited these days given how frequent the 10, 59 and 63 are. Another problem with forever expanding / extending the network is the lack of bus station and stand space - TfL are obviously aware but have few options to get a permanent solution. I can confirm that there were five 14s on the stand outside UCH yesterday afternoon at about 4pm. Three or four is by no means unusual.
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Post by thesquirrels on Sept 6, 2014 18:23:44 GMT
Ok.. a lazy route proposal. It provides a new service to the sparse/unserved parts of Enfield west of the A10 and provides the links discussed above:
327 or 342 (a nod to the old 242, if the 327 is not absorbed.. see below) Enfield Town Baker Street Myddleton Avenue Forty Hill Bulls Cross & Myddleton House Capel Manor College Bullsmoor Lane Elsinge Estate * Turkey Street Station * Freezywater * Waltham Cross Eleanor Cross Road Meridian Way Sewardstone Road Chingford Station
Hourly with little single decks - a tester for demand, and anything bigger would struggle in Bulls Cross. Elsinge Estate routeing optional to absorb the 327, with a local enhancement to maintain the old frequency, but might make the route a bit too loopy for through passengers. 0600-2100 but with scope for later workings to meet shift needs at Sainsburys if demand is there. I think a Sunday service would be popular for the 'green' destinations around Forty Hill/Hall.
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