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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Jun 22, 2017 13:35:33 GMT
It's a good move but guess who have come out of the woodwork - the snotty nose idiots living in Kensington. Whilst some have said it's great to see them getting somewhere to live, others are moaning saying that should live elsewhere. Seriously, this is what annoys about some middle and upper class people - they think they've some sort of god given right. Oh it gets worse - there are people who actually agree with them!! If you look at the comments in this article - www.standard.co.uk/news/london/outrage-as-luxury-flat-residents-complain-rehomed-grenfell-families-will-lower-house-prices-a3570331.html - it's like outta the bloody Daily Mail! And note the sensible things were downvoted. Does ES not moderate stuff people say?? Awful how not every family cares to shape their child's moral backbone and doesn't teach them empathy or to care for the weak and vulnerable… It's completely shocking that people still think that they are higher up some sort of hierarchy when it comes to these sort of things. But no matter what they say the people will be rehomed there and there's nothing the snobs will be able to do about it. In more positive news, here's some information I found on the bus RR sent out full of donations: www.barkinganddagenhampost.co.uk/news/grenfell-tower-fire-double-decker-bus-takes-donations-from-barking-1-5073278They managed to fill a whole LT with the donations, initially the plan was to send a single decker but the response they got was overwhelming. |
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Post by sid on Jun 22, 2017 15:54:40 GMT
Of far greater concern is the number of other tower blocks covered in combustible cladding. Apart from the risk of another accidental blaze it must be giving any would be terrorist or random nutcase all sorts of ideas. Surely people have got to be moved out until the cladding is removed? With all the H&S legislation nowadays it beggars belief that this has been allowed to happen! www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40366646Meanwhile Camden council have pledged to remove cladding as soon as possible www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/22/grenfell-tower-camden-council-to-remove-cladding-from-five-tower-blocksI get the impression that these 'posh flats' were designated social housing anyway, as most developments are required to have, and they were given to Grenfell residents ahead of those on the waiting list and understandably so under the circumstances. |
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Post by mondraker275 on Jun 22, 2017 20:12:44 GMT
Of far greater concern is the number of other tower blocks covered in combustible cladding. Apart from the risk of another accidental blaze it must be giving any would be terrorist or random nutcase all sorts of ideas. Surely people have got to be moved out until the cladding is removed? With all the H&S legislation nowadays it beggars belief that this has been allowed to happen! www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40366646Meanwhile Camden council have pledged to remove cladding as soon as possible www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/22/grenfell-tower-camden-council-to-remove-cladding-from-five-tower-blocksI get the impression that these 'posh flats' were designated social housing anyway, as most developments are required to have, and they were given to Grenfell residents ahead of those on the waiting list and understandably so under the circumstances. Firstly, the new flats are an odd one. They clearly were intended to be sold at a 'affordable' prices, but were not for social housing. Whats happened is the government have purchased the flats at cost price from the developer and hence made it social housing. This means that the tenants can have permanent tenancy like they would have had at social rent. However you cant make everything the same, I am sure that they cannot tip toe around the council tax rates, which will certainly many tax bands higher than before. I am guessing these flats have sprinklers. About cladding in other high rise buildings. You cannot realistically move people out, and people may not want to anyway. The removal will take weeks and months. You need to remove cladding while you have increased short time fire risk provision. Like, why not provide everyone person in the block with an oxygen mask and tank during the works or at any high risk building. You can also reallocate the oxygen masks to another building once works are complete. Most people die from smoke inhalation than actually the fire itself. |
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Post by sid on Jun 22, 2017 20:37:24 GMT
Of far greater concern is the number of other tower blocks covered in combustible cladding. Apart from the risk of another accidental blaze it must be giving any would be terrorist or random nutcase all sorts of ideas. Surely people have got to be moved out until the cladding is removed? With all the H&S legislation nowadays it beggars belief that this has been allowed to happen! www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40366646Meanwhile Camden council have pledged to remove cladding as soon as possible www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/22/grenfell-tower-camden-council-to-remove-cladding-from-five-tower-blocksI get the impression that these 'posh flats' were designated social housing anyway, as most developments are required to have, and they were given to Grenfell residents ahead of those on the waiting list and understandably so under the circumstances. Firstly, the new flats are an odd one. They clearly were intended to be sold at a 'affordable' prices, but were not for social housing. Whats happened is the government have purchased the flats at cost price from the developer and hence made it social housing. This means that the tenants can have permanent tenancy like they would have had at social rent. However you cant make everything the same, I am sure that they cannot tip toe around the council tax rates, which will certainly many tax bands higher than before. I am guessing these flats have sprinklers. About cladding in other high rise buildings. You cannot realistically move people out, and people may not want to anyway. The removal will take weeks and months. You need to remove cladding while you have increased short time fire risk provision. Like, why not provide everyone person in the block with an oxygen mask and tank during the works or at any high risk building. You can also reallocate the oxygen masks to another building once works are complete. Most people die from smoke inhalation than actually the fire itself. I realise that it would be a mammoth undertaking moving everybody out of tower blocks with potentially dangerous cladding until it's removed but does anybody really want to risk a repeat of what's happened? Obviously if some people wanted to stay put and risk it that would be up to them. I realise most people died of smoke inhalation but few would have survived a fire of that intensity. |
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Post by SILENCED on Jun 22, 2017 22:57:12 GMT
Firstly, the new flats are an odd one. They clearly were intended to be sold at a 'affordable' prices, but were not for social housing. Whats happened is the government have purchased the flats at cost price from the developer and hence made it social housing. This means that the tenants can have permanent tenancy like they would have had at social rent. However you cant make everything the same, I am sure that they cannot tip toe around the council tax rates, which will certainly many tax bands higher than before. I am guessing these flats have sprinklers. About cladding in other high rise buildings. You cannot realistically move people out, and people may not want to anyway. The removal will take weeks and months. You need to remove cladding while you have increased short time fire risk provision. Like, why not provide everyone person in the block with an oxygen mask and tank during the works or at any high risk building. You can also reallocate the oxygen masks to another building once works are complete. Most people die from smoke inhalation than actually the fire itself. I realise that it would be a mammoth undertaking moving everybody out of tower blocks with potentially dangerous cladding until it's removed but does anybody really want to risk a repeat of what's happened? Obviously if some people wanted to stay put and risk it that would be up to them. I realise most people died of smoke inhalation but few would have survived a fire of that intensity. How long has the cladding been used??? This is the first fire ... Yes it would be a mammoth undertaking, and yes given the choice nobody would want to take the risk. But given the numbers and pressure on housing places it is unrealistic ... if someone wants to move that much they can set the wheels on motion themselves. I am sure rectification of this issue will be pushed to the top of every councils agenda. Then what do you do with properties that are privately owned ... force each Tennant to pay to get the cladding changed? That could run into 1000,s per flat. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2017 23:02:16 GMT
I haven't posted for a while simply because my job has kept me very busy.
We all now live in a vastly more unpredictable City. I have seen carnage directly recently because of hateful ideology and entirely avoidable tragedy.
The only point I would like to make, is that Kensington & Chelsea council, along with Hammersmith & Fulham, were once David Cameron's ideology budget saving flagships, local authorities, bravely saving money all over the place by sharing facilities , staff , etc etc .
This was because of imposed austerity. I have not seen any evidence of the wealthy being adversely affected by austerity measures, other than if they have to wait several hours for a police officer to turn up to report a burglary, or face the inconvenience of reduced rubbish collections.
Those less well off, wait longer in NHS hospitals, have less income, are more stressed, maybe less healthy , and have less job security through an increasingly ruthless private sector employment contract regime,
Having worked in Notting Hill, been in Grenfell Tower, and visited the area again recently, the once vibrant soul of that area has gone. The tower looms into the sky like a tomb, containing only the ash of the remains of dozens of people who may never be formally identified, buried , or returned to their loved ones.
I've read despicable comments on social media , and I have lost faith in the British way of life. The divide was started by Cameron with the referendum, and continues now with the election result, the push towards extreme left and right helped by terrorism atrocities , and the Grenfell Tower tragedy has vividly shown the world just how divided this City has become . The haves and and have nots,
This a Saturday, will see the vile EDL descend in Central London. The terrorist threat, from right wing extremists and ISIS inspired fanatics, is growing.
Your emergency services are surviving on overtime , mostly enforced. There are no extra police officers, no extra firefighters, no extra NHS staff. Mrs May will not invest money into any of these services. She says herself she is a bloody awkward woman.
I would say she is a bloody dangerous woman , who is putting us all at grave risk.
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Post by thesquirrels on Jun 22, 2017 23:05:30 GMT
I realise that it would be a mammoth undertaking moving everybody out of tower blocks with potentially dangerous cladding until it's removed but does anybody really want to risk a repeat of what's happened? Obviously if some people wanted to stay put and risk it that would be up to them. I realise most people died of smoke inhalation but few would have survived a fire of that intensity. How long has the cladding been used??? This is the first fire ... Yes it would be a mammoth undertaking, and yes given the choice nobody would want to take the risk. But given the numbers and pressure on housing places it is unrealistic ... if someone wants to move that much they can set the wheels on motion themselves. I am sure rectification of this issue will be pushed to the top of every councils agenda. Then what do you do with properties that are privately owned ... force each Tennant to pay to get the cladding changed? That could run into 1000,s per flat. Leaseholders will have often paid a five figure sum to the ALMO/social/council landlord for their share of the costs involved in the first cladding attempt, often nearly breaking them in the process. I'm no fan of right-to-buy depleting the social housing stocks in high-demand areas but I don't see why these people should be liable for a second round because of errors made by the landlord in the first instance. The Chalcots Estate blocks which Camden are planning to strip down started being refurbished externally in 2007. I think they're the oldest at significant risk. |
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Post by SILENCED on Jun 22, 2017 23:49:46 GMT
How long has the cladding been used??? This is the first fire ... Yes it would be a mammoth undertaking, and yes given the choice nobody would want to take the risk. But given the numbers and pressure on housing places it is unrealistic ... if someone wants to move that much they can set the wheels on motion themselves. I am sure rectification of this issue will be pushed to the top of every councils agenda. Then what do you do with properties that are privately owned ... force each Tennant to pay to get the cladding changed? That could run into 1000,s per flat. Leaseholders will have often paid a five figure sum to the ALMO/social/council landlord for their share of the costs involved in the first cladding attempt, often nearly breaking them in the process. I'm no fan of right-to-buy depleting the social housing stocks in high-demand areas but I don't see why these people should be liable for a second round because of errors made by the landlord in the first instance. The Chalcots Estate blocks which Camden are planning to strip down started being refurbished externally in 2007. I think they're the oldest at significant risk. This is just not applicable to right to buy blocks... modern apartment blocks are cladded ... also are modern office blocks Trouble you have is if the original company met the correct building regs ... they are not going to correct it free of charge ... so you saying the tenants should not pay for it ... the who should? Nowe are you talking about the landlord or the freeholder ... neither is automatically loaded if an individual! Normally maintenance is paid by the leaseholder ... so it will be those poor bstds that end up paying. You sign a lease, you basically say you will pay your part of the upkeep .... whatever the cost! |
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Post by vjaska on Jun 22, 2017 23:50:53 GMT
I haven't posted for a while simply because my job has kept me very busy. We all now live in a vastly more unpredictable City. I have seen carnage directly recently because of hateful ideology and entirely avoidable tragedy. The only point I would like to make, is that Kensington & Chelsea council, along with Hammersmith & Fulham, were once David Cameron's ideology budget saving flagships, local authorities, bravely saving money all over the place by sharing facilities , staff , etc etc . This was because of imposed austerity. I have not seen any evidence of the wealthy being adversely affected by austerity measures, other than if they have to wait several hours for a police officer to turn up to report a burglary, or face the inconvenience of reduced rubbish collections. Those less well off, wait longer in NHS hospitals, have less income, are more stressed, maybe less healthy , and have less job security through an increasingly ruthless private sector employment contract regime, Having worked in Notting Hill, been in Grenfell Tower, and visited the area again recently, the once vibrant soul of that area has gone. The tower looms into the sky like a tomb, containing only the ash of the remains of dozens of people who may never be formally identified, buried , or returned to their loved ones. I've read despicable comments on social media , and I have lost faith in the British way of life. The divide was started by Cameron with the referendum, and continues now with the election result, the push towards extreme left and right helped by terrorism atrocities , and the Grenfell Tower tragedy has vividly shown the world just how divided this City has become . The haves and and have nots, This a Saturday, will see the vile EDL descend in Central London. The terrorist threat, from right wing extremists and ISIS inspired fanatics, is growing. Your emergency services are surviving on overtime , mostly enforced. There are no extra police officers, no extra firefighters, no extra NHS staff. Mrs May will not invest money into any of these services. She says herself she is a bloody awkward woman. I would say she is a bloody dangerous woman , who is putting us all at grave risk. Couldn't have said it better myself - I've already ranted recently on Facebook about the hypocrisy of this country and the awful castigation of Muslims who on the whole are decent, law abiding people. |
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Post by SILENCED on Jun 23, 2017 0:00:02 GMT
I haven't posted for a while simply because my job has kept me very busy. We all now live in a vastly more unpredictable City. I have seen carnage directly recently because of hateful ideology and entirely avoidable tragedy. The only point I would like to make, is that Kensington & Chelsea council, along with Hammersmith & Fulham, were once David Cameron's ideology budget saving flagships, local authorities, bravely saving money all over the place by sharing facilities , staff , etc etc . This was because of imposed austerity. I have not seen any evidence of the wealthy being adversely affected by austerity measures, other than if they have to wait several hours for a police officer to turn up to report a burglary, or face the inconvenience of reduced rubbish collections. Those less well off, wait longer in NHS hospitals, have less income, are more stressed, maybe less healthy , and have less job security through an increasingly ruthless private sector employment contract regime, Having worked in Notting Hill, been in Grenfell Tower, and visited the area again recently, the once vibrant soul of that area has gone. The tower looms into the sky like a tomb, containing only the ash of the remains of dozens of people who may never be formally identified, buried , or returned to their loved ones. I've read despicable comments on social media , and I have lost faith in the British way of life. The divide was started by Cameron with the referendum, and continues now with the election result, the push towards extreme left and right helped by terrorism atrocities , and the Grenfell Tower tragedy has vividly shown the world just how divided this City has become . The haves and and have nots, This a Saturday, will see the vile EDL descend in Central London. The terrorist threat, from right wing extremists and ISIS inspired fanatics, is growing. Your emergency services are surviving on overtime , mostly enforced. There are no extra police officers, no extra firefighters, no extra NHS staff. Mrs May will not invest money into any of these services. She says herself she is a bloody awkward woman. I would say she is a bloody dangerous woman , who is putting us all at grave risk. Couldn't have said it better myself - I've already ranted recently on Facebook about the hypocrisy of this country and the awful castigation of Muslims who on the whole are decent, law abiding people. Think that saying it started with Cameron is incorrect ... it started way before that ... you can go back more than a few governments ... mainly going on about original statement, not vj's reply. |
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Post by snoggle on Jun 23, 2017 0:07:37 GMT
I haven't posted for a while simply because my job has kept me very busy. We all now live in a vastly more unpredictable City. I have seen carnage directly recently because of hateful ideology and entirely avoidable tragedy. The only point I would like to make, is that Kensington & Chelsea council, along with Hammersmith & Fulham, were once David Cameron's ideology budget saving flagships, local authorities, bravely saving money all over the place by sharing facilities , staff , etc etc . This was because of imposed austerity. I have not seen any evidence of the wealthy being adversely affected by austerity measures, other than if they have to wait several hours for a police officer to turn up to report a burglary, or face the inconvenience of reduced rubbish collections. Those less well off, wait longer in NHS hospitals, have less income, are more stressed, maybe less healthy , and have less job security through an increasingly ruthless private sector employment contract regime, Having worked in Notting Hill, been in Grenfell Tower, and visited the area again recently, the once vibrant soul of that area has gone. The tower looms into the sky like a tomb, containing only the ash of the remains of dozens of people who may never be formally identified, buried , or returned to their loved ones. I've read despicable comments on social media , and I have lost faith in the British way of life. The divide was started by Cameron with the referendum, and continues now with the election result, the push towards extreme left and right helped by terrorism atrocities , and the Grenfell Tower tragedy has vividly shown the world just how divided this City has become . The haves and and have nots, This a Saturday, will see the vile EDL descend in Central London. The terrorist threat, from right wing extremists and ISIS inspired fanatics, is growing. Your emergency services are surviving on overtime , mostly enforced. There are no extra police officers, no extra firefighters, no extra NHS staff. Mrs May will not invest money into any of these services. She says herself she is a bloody awkward woman. I would say she is a bloody dangerous woman , who is putting us all at grave risk. Only really one comment - the divide wasn't started by Cameron. It has been there almost forever because some humans can't cope with other people being different from them. It has caused wars and destruction since time began. The referendum did not help *at all* in terms of how we feel about ourselves as a country and, worse, how others see us. We may never recover from the damage that the last 40-50 years of EEC / EU related "bile" has caused. It will take well over 50 years in my view until something changes because several generations of anti and pro EU people have to die off and even then the sentiment will still linger down the generations as people are taught the history of how we got to where we are in 2017 (and beyond). I can't see a way out of the mess as the voters *and* the politicians (of all hues) are equally culpable. We lie about ourselves, we lie about those from other countries, politicians lie to us, the media lies to us and we all just sit here and do next to nothing about all the lies and national self deception. There are no nice ways out of this sort of thing because getting "poison" out of an organism is never nice nor easy. Has Germany managed to expunge Nazi-ism 70 years on? Nope. Plenty of similar examples in other countries who went through revolutionary change. |
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Post by vjaska on Jun 23, 2017 1:08:00 GMT
Couldn't have said it better myself - I've already ranted recently on Facebook about the hypocrisy of this country and the awful castigation of Muslims who on the whole are decent, law abiding people. Think that saying it started with Cameron is incorrect ... it started way before that ... you can go back more than a few governments ... mainly going on about original statement, not vj's reply. Probably go back as far as Thatcher in all honesty - after all she introduced right to buy which started the whole run down of council housing. |
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Post by sid on Jun 23, 2017 5:47:53 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2017 7:05:26 GMT
Your last link makes difficult reading now , and I'm sure will form part of the criminal investigation now underway. |
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Post by vjaska on Jun 23, 2017 10:04:11 GMT
It's just been confirmed that the fire was caused by a faulty Hotpoint fridge freezer (model number FF175BP) and that, as everyone suspected, the tiles & insulation on the tower failed fire safety tests. The fridge freezer was not part of a product recall as far as they're aware.
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