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Post by southlondonbus on Jan 28, 2023 20:54:45 GMT
Just a mini rant from me. I know I should be over the 241 changes by now but its so annoying!
I had to pop to Stratford today and wanted to use buses more in 2023 so I had am now forced to either catch two buses or have a 10 minute walk to either a 69 or 241 stop. I know most are not local to my area but you would not believe how useful the link was and was well used. The 474 feels the gap from Canning Town to Custom House but I am yet to see passengers board buses heading towards Manor Park from the Keir Hardie where as previously would see lots of passengers boarding the 241.
Meanwhile the 241 carries fresh air from Freemasons Road to Royal Wharf. I wonder if in a few years with might get a U turn on these changes like they are doing on the 23.
Does seem a rather important fairly local link to Stratford is now lost. Stratford is such a hub now in east London that its a number one destination for alot of people.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Jan 28, 2023 20:59:50 GMT
Just a mini rant from me. I know I should be over the 241 changes by now but its so annoying!
I had to pop to Stratford today and wanted to use buses more in 2023 so I had am now forced to either catch two buses or have a 10 minute walk to either a 69 or 241 stop. I know most are not local to my area but you would not believe how useful the link was and was well used. The 474 feels the gap from Canning Town to Custom House but I am yet to see passengers board buses heading towards Manor Park from the Keir Hardie where as previously would see lots of passengers boarding the 241.
Meanwhile the 241 carries fresh air from Freemasons Road to Royal Wharf. I wonder if in a few years with might get a U turn on these changes like they are doing on the 23.
I'm doubtful we'll get a U Turn with the 241, it would end up leaving Royal Wharf without a bus link. I think the justification TfL will use is that it's within the Hopper Fare limit. I do think what might be a more realistic future for the 241 is demand is matched to service as opposed to the 241 being withdrawn. I've given up on buses by this point, I've barely used any routes this year so far besides the ones that pass my house and a 205 one time.
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Post by WH241 on Jan 28, 2023 22:31:47 GMT
Just a mini rant from me. I know I should be over the 241 changes by now but its so annoying!
I had to pop to Stratford today and wanted to use buses more in 2023 so I had am now forced to either catch two buses or have a 10 minute walk to either a 69 or 241 stop. I know most are not local to my area but you would not believe how useful the link was and was well used. The 474 feels the gap from Canning Town to Custom House but I am yet to see passengers board buses heading towards Manor Park from the Keir Hardie where as previously would see lots of passengers boarding the 241.
Meanwhile the 241 carries fresh air from Freemasons Road to Royal Wharf. I wonder if in a few years with might get a U turn on these changes like they are doing on the 23.
I'm doubtful we'll get a U Turn with the 241, it would end up leaving Royal Wharf without a bus link. I think the justification TfL will use is that it's within the Hopper Fare limit. I do think what might be a more realistic future for the 241 is demand is matched to service as opposed to the 241 being withdrawn. I've given up on buses by this point, I've barely used any routes this year so far besides the ones that pass my house and a 205 one time. It was all very hypothetical and doubtful anything would change. They could of course send the 325 there in place of the 241 as its extension to the docks seems to have gone quite.
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Post by northlondon83 on Feb 1, 2023 15:12:25 GMT
I'm doubtful we'll get a U Turn with the 241, it would end up leaving Royal Wharf without a bus link. I think the justification TfL will use is that it's within the Hopper Fare limit. I do think what might be a more realistic future for the 241 is demand is matched to service as opposed to the 241 being withdrawn. I've given up on buses by this point, I've barely used any routes this year so far besides the ones that pass my house and a 205 one time. It was all very hypothetical and doubtful anything would change. They could of course send the 325 there in place of the 241 as its extension to the docks seems to have gone quite. Perhaps a route like the 309/323/D3 could extend to Royal Wharf, as well as leaving the 241 alone or withdrawing that to Prince Regent and extending the 325. This would provide Cross Canning Town links which there are few of from the west to the east (only 115). The D3 wouldn't serve Canning Town but instead would go on Lower Lea Crossing to Royal Victoria then 330 to Royal Wharf. The other two routes in question would also have the benefit of linking Canning Town to Royal Wharf, yes the 330 stops close by, but doesn't serve Royal Wharf itself Quite possibly a new route could be constructed alongside my 309/323/D3 extension, starting at Royal Wharf ending at Stratford or Stratford City. It would take the 241 route to Custom House, then Victoria Dock Road, Silvertown Road, Canning Town bus station, 323/276 to Stratford. This would allow the 241 to revert to it's Canning Town routing and would support the 276 in West Ham, as I find it odd that West Ham only has one route.
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Post by WH241 on Feb 5, 2023 15:05:57 GMT
A new bus stop shelter has been installed on the Custom House station stand.
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Post by WH241 on Feb 13, 2023 20:16:48 GMT
Just a mini rant from me. I know I should be over the 241 changes by now but its so annoying!
I had to pop to Stratford today and wanted to use buses more in 2023 so I had am now forced to either catch two buses or have a 10 minute walk to either a 69 or 241 stop. I know most are not local to my area but you would not believe how useful the link was and was well used. The 474 feels the gap from Canning Town to Custom House but I am yet to see passengers board buses heading towards Manor Park from the Keir Hardie where as previously would see lots of passengers boarding the 241.
Meanwhile the 241 carries fresh air from Freemasons Road to Royal Wharf. I wonder if in a few years with might get a U turn on these changes like they are doing on the 23.
Quoting myself again sorry!
Now look away or scroll past as I am about to mention the much talked about 241 by me at least
So today I used the 241 from Stratford City and as expected it was very busy picking up all the way to Plaistow Balaam Street but then gradually emptied as we headed towards Freemasons Road. By the time I left the bus at Custom House station I was the last passenger, this is consistent with all my off bus observations when i see the 241 at various times. Has anyone here used the bus to or from Royal Wharf? I am curious if it carries any decent passenger numbers to and from Custom House station in the peaks? I am pretty convinced the cut back from Canning Town was a total flop and can't see things improving.
I also used the 304 today and this route has come into its own now and carries decent passengers numbers.
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Post by enviroPB on Nov 21, 2023 19:56:55 GMT
Today marks 18 months since the Crossrail changes in east London. Ignoring the indifference in changed routes:
-Lonsdale Avenue residents are the overall winners of the changes. Passengers now have the choice of all shopping districts in Newham (East Ham, Upton Park, Beckton, Stratford) and the 104's early evening and Sunday frequency increases are proving well with punters.
-Stansfeld Road passengers probably have the raw end of the deal after the 300 reroute and with the 376 finishing before midnight, passengers there are forced into a lengthy walk from Coleman Road or the DLR at Royal Albert
-Route 304 is more less a commuter route and indeed is very quiet outside the peaks. However the split with the 104 was genius; the engrossed peak frequencies weren't needed along High Street North and a fair few PM peak journeys on the old 104 regularly terminated at East Ham Station. The 304 is much more reliable between Lonsdale Avenue and Manor Park.
-New Barn Street and Freemasons Road, though overbussed, has responded well to the swap of the round the corner links from the 241 to the 300. Passengers have no doubt dissipated to Custom House for Crossrail, but the 300 is noticeably less busy towards Canning Town. Compared to approaching Barking Road from Prince Regent Lane previously, the 300 has less usage from Custom House as it approaches Barking Road/Abbey Arms.
-The 474N has been beneficial to local residents around Custom House and Prince Regent. Night buses are timed around 10 mins behind the N551 in both directions, giving support which is handy after 3am when shift workers begin their journeys. Passenger figures from alighting and boarding the 474N at Canning Town have definitely increased since May 2022.
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Post by WH241 on Nov 21, 2023 20:19:01 GMT
Today marks 18 months since the Crossrail changes in east London. Ignoring the indifference in changed routes: -Lonsdale Avenue residents are the overall winners of the changes. Passengers now have the choice of all shopping districts in Newham (East Ham, Upton Park, Beckton, Stratford) and the 104's early evening and Sunday frequency increases are proving well with punters. -Stansfeld Road passengers probably have the raw end of the deal after the 300 reroute and with the 376 finishing before midnight, passengers there are forced into a lengthy walk from Coleman Road or the DLR at Royal Albert -Route 304 is more less a commuter route and indeed is very quiet outside the peaks. However the split with the 104 was genius; the engrossed peak frequencies weren't needed along High Street North and a fair few PM peak journeys on the old 104 regularly terminated at East Ham Station. The 304 is much more reliable between Lonsdale Avenue and Manor Park. -New Barn Street and Freemasons Road, though overbussed, has responded well to the swap of the round the corner links from the 241 to the 300. Passengers have no doubt dissipated to Custom House for Crossrail, but the 300 is noticeably less busy towards Canning Town. Compared to approaching Barking Road from Prince Regent Lane previously, the 300 has less usage from Custom House as it approaches Barking Road/Abbey Arms. -The 474N has been beneficial to local residents around Custom House and Prince Regent. Night buses are timed around 10 mins behind the N551 in both directions, giving support which is handy after 3am when shift workers begin their journeys. Passenger figures from alighting and boarding the 474N at Canning Town have definitely increased since May 2022. Sorry but I am going to have to disagree with a few points but as a local resident and observer of routes.
The 300 is still very busy at all times of the day towards Canning Town, this is based on observations of the route leaving Tollgate Road, Prince Regent Lane and in Freemasons Road. If anything it has keep the existing passengers from the Beckton area and picked up new passengers in the Custom House area.
The 304 is quite (Ish) outside of peaks but has built up steady numbers and I frequently see passengers waiting at Custom House between the bus stand and the 147 stop so that can catch either bus. This route provides much needed support for the 147.
I don't use night routes but I would be surprised if the N474 has any real benefit over the new section around Keir Hardie normal 474 buses pretty much carry fresh air during the evening after around 9 - 10pm. Whilst on the subject I really think the 474 has been a bit of a let down on the former 241 section. I observe usage from Canning Town to Custom House but buses are very lightly used after this and probably don't starting picking up decent numbers until back on the old route from City Airport. The biggest let down of the whole scheme is cutting off Keir Hardie towards Stratford and still regularly see disgruntled passengers having to walk from Freemasons around the corner for onward journeys.
Again this is my take both walking, driving and observing the above traveling to work and at weekends when out and about locally.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Nov 21, 2023 20:32:55 GMT
Today marks 18 months since the Crossrail changes in east London. Ignoring the indifference in changed routes: -Lonsdale Avenue residents are the overall winners of the changes. Passengers now have the choice of all shopping districts in Newham (East Ham, Upton Park, Beckton, Stratford) and the 104's early evening and Sunday frequency increases are proving well with punters. -Stansfeld Road passengers probably have the raw end of the deal after the 300 reroute and with the 376 finishing before midnight, passengers there are forced into a lengthy walk from Coleman Road or the DLR at Royal Albert -Route 304 is more less a commuter route and indeed is very quiet outside the peaks. However the split with the 104 was genius; the engrossed peak frequencies weren't needed along High Street North and a fair few PM peak journeys on the old 104 regularly terminated at East Ham Station. The 304 is much more reliable between Lonsdale Avenue and Manor Park. -New Barn Street and Freemasons Road, though overbussed, has responded well to the swap of the round the corner links from the 241 to the 300. Passengers have no doubt dissipated to Custom House for Crossrail, but the 300 is noticeably less busy towards Canning Town. Compared to approaching Barking Road from Prince Regent Lane previously, the 300 has less usage from Custom House as it approaches Barking Road/Abbey Arms. -The 474N has been beneficial to local residents around Custom House and Prince Regent. Night buses are timed around 10 mins behind the N551 in both directions, giving support which is handy after 3am when shift workers begin their journeys. Passenger figures from alighting and boarding the 474N at Canning Town have definitely increased since May 2022. The 300 has actually seen a considerable increase in its usage, going from 1.8M in 2021-22 to 2.15M in 2022-23. I also wouldn't say the 104 split was genius, it's worked but the 238 usage has gone from 3.6M to 4.2M which in itself is a huge jump. The 104 went from 4.5M to 4.0M. Despite the 304 should have absorbed a lot of the 104 loss, the 104 has only shown a 0.5M decrease showing that the 304 has probably just picked up new patronage instead. There's a 0.6M jump on the 238 so probably safe to say that a lot of trips heading to East Ham from Stratford that previously used the 104 have been broken and are passengers are now being forced onto the 238 instead. If you were to look back after all these changes I'd continue to have the 104 as one route, there was a noticeable benefit to having two routes from Stratford to East Ham instead of just the one. I would also probably leave the 241 as it was and reroute the 330 into Royal Wharf instead. I'm unsure why they fiddled around so much with the 241 to get it into the development when the 330 terminated on the road outside.
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Post by enviroPB on Nov 21, 2023 20:55:04 GMT
Today marks 18 months since the Crossrail changes in east London. Ignoring the indifference in changed routes: -Lonsdale Avenue residents are the overall winners of the changes. Passengers now have the choice of all shopping districts in Newham (East Ham, Upton Park, Beckton, Stratford) and the 104's early evening and Sunday frequency increases are proving well with punters. -Stansfeld Road passengers probably have the raw end of the deal after the 300 reroute and with the 376 finishing before midnight, passengers there are forced into a lengthy walk from Coleman Road or the DLR at Royal Albert -Route 304 is more less a commuter route and indeed is very quiet outside the peaks. However the split with the 104 was genius; the engrossed peak frequencies weren't needed along High Street North and a fair few PM peak journeys on the old 104 regularly terminated at East Ham Station. The 304 is much more reliable between Lonsdale Avenue and Manor Park. -New Barn Street and Freemasons Road, though overbussed, has responded well to the swap of the round the corner links from the 241 to the 300. Passengers have no doubt dissipated to Custom House for Crossrail, but the 300 is noticeably less busy towards Canning Town. Compared to approaching Barking Road from Prince Regent Lane previously, the 300 has less usage from Custom House as it approaches Barking Road/Abbey Arms. -The 474N has been beneficial to local residents around Custom House and Prince Regent. Night buses are timed around 10 mins behind the N551 in both directions, giving support which is handy after 3am when shift workers begin their journeys. Passenger figures from alighting and boarding the 474N at Canning Town have definitely increased since May 2022. The 300 has actually seen a considerable increase in its usage, going from 1.8M in 2021-22 to 2.15M in 2022-23. I also wouldn't say the 104 split was genius, it's worked but the 238 usage has gone from 3.6M to 4.2M which in itself is a huge jump. The 104 went from 4.5M to 4.0M. Despite the 304 should have absorbed a lot of the 104 loss, the 104 has only shown a 0.5M decrease showing that the 304 has probably just picked up new patronage instead. There's a 0.6M jump on the 238 so probably safe to say that a lot of trips heading to East Ham from Stratford that previously used the 104 have been broken and are passengers are now being forced onto the 238 instead. If you were to look back after all these changes I'd continue to have the 104 as one route, there was a noticeable benefit to having two routes from Stratford to East Ham instead of just the one. I would also probably leave the 241 as it was and reroute the 330 into Royal Wharf instead. I'm unsure why they fiddled around so much with the 241 to get it into the development when the 330 terminated on the road outside. I did give the caveat of the 300 being less busy towards Canning Town, specifically Freemasons Road & New Barn Street to Barking Road compared to Prince Regent Lane to Barking Road. It's interesting you mentioned the variance in the 104's figures without quoting the 304's figures. You cannot be dismissive of the 304 creating new patronage when about half of the route is a direct and literal replacement of the 104 towards Manor Park. Ultimately we don't have that rich TfL data to properly comment on it, but I do believe the 104 ran out of frequency increases as an option to appease the demand on Lonsdale Avenue to the detriment of overbussing the rest of the route. As aforementioned, the 104's PM peak was a bit excessive along High Street North.
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Post by WH241 on Nov 21, 2023 22:38:14 GMT
The 300 has actually seen a considerable increase in its usage, going from 1.8M in 2021-22 to 2.15M in 2022-23. I also wouldn't say the 104 split was genius, it's worked but the 238 usage has gone from 3.6M to 4.2M which in itself is a huge jump. The 104 went from 4.5M to 4.0M. Despite the 304 should have absorbed a lot of the 104 loss, the 104 has only shown a 0.5M decrease showing that the 304 has probably just picked up new patronage instead. There's a 0.6M jump on the 238 so probably safe to say that a lot of trips heading to East Ham from Stratford that previously used the 104 have been broken and are passengers are now being forced onto the 238 instead. If you were to look back after all these changes I'd continue to have the 104 as one route, there was a noticeable benefit to having two routes from Stratford to East Ham instead of just the one. I would also probably leave the 241 as it was and reroute the 330 into Royal Wharf instead. I'm unsure why they fiddled around so much with the 241 to get it into the development when the 330 terminated on the road outside. I did give the caveat of the 300 being less busy towards Canning Town, specifically Freemasons Road & New Barn Street to Barking Road compared to Prince Regent Lane to Barking Road. It's interesting you mentioned the variance in the 104's figures without quoting the 304's figures. You cannot be dismissive of the 304 creating new patronage when about half of the route is a direct and literal replacement of the 104 towards Manor Park. Ultimately we don't have that rich TfL data to properly comment on it, but I do believe the 104 ran out of frequency increases as an option to appease the demand on Lonsdale Avenue to the detriment of overbussing the rest of the route. As aforementioned, the 104's PM peak was a bit excessive along High Street North. So where exactly are all these extra passengers using the 300 if not on the revised section. Granted some will be travelling to Custom House station but not all of them. I’m not going to repeat myself but really do think you are wrong regarding the revised section and feel it carries similar loadings to the former routing. We will have to agree to disagree.
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Post by enviroPB on Nov 21, 2023 23:43:31 GMT
I did give the caveat of the 300 being less busy towards Canning Town, specifically Freemasons Road & New Barn Street to Barking Road compared to Prince Regent Lane to Barking Road. It's interesting you mentioned the variance in the 104's figures without quoting the 304's figures. You cannot be dismissive of the 304 creating new patronage when about half of the route is a direct and literal replacement of the 104 towards Manor Park. Ultimately we don't have that rich TfL data to properly comment on it, but I do believe the 104 ran out of frequency increases as an option to appease the demand on Lonsdale Avenue to the detriment of overbussing the rest of the route. As aforementioned, the 104's PM peak was a bit excessive along High Street North. So where exactly are all these extra passengers using the 300 if not on the revised section. Granted some will be travelling to Custom House station but not all of them. I’m not going to repeat myself but really do think you are wrong regarding the revised section and feel it carries similar loadings to the former routing. We will have to agree to disagree. Any other mile over the 7 miles of this route? Savvy passengers in Custom House walk to the Chauntler Close/Cundy Park stop to maximise catching a bus along the southern half of Prince Regent Lane. If there is a gap in the 147 or 304, the 300 mops up crowds quite nicely there. It's surprising you haven't spotted that, but then again it took you months to notice a footbridge at Custom House Station so status quo really.
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Post by Ice Prxnce on Nov 22, 2023 0:51:18 GMT
As an outsider but someone who visits the Custom House area and its surroundings quite regularly, I've always thought that these bus changes were poorly thought of - the 474 change in particular is terrible. Why does East Ham need so many bus routes to Custom House? While it's a busy place, it's not exactly booming, nor much of a major transport hub compared to Stratford for example.
The introduction of 304 was unnecessary too and instead could have been covered by a re-route of 101 which would ensure more stand space at Beckton Bus Station. Now 101, 304 and 474 all duplicate each other between Beckton/Beckton Alps and Manor Park which is a waste of resources IMO.
I also think 330 should have been extended to Prince Regent via Keir Hardie Estate and Custom House with 474 retaining its old routing (though I guess a link between North Woolwich and Custom House might have been required even though 473 goes to a Crossrail station). The irony in this is that Silvertown Way no longer has a night route and neither does the Royal Wharf area - a new housing estate that TFL want covered by a transport link.
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Post by WH241 on Nov 22, 2023 9:50:07 GMT
As an outsider but someone who visits the Custom House area and its surroundings quite regularly, I've always thought that these bus changes were poorly thought of - the 474 change in particular is terrible. Why does East Ham need so many bus routes to Custom House? While it's a busy place, it's not exactly booming, nor much of a major transport hub compared to Stratford for example. The introduction of 304 was unnecessary too and instead could have been covered by a re-route of 101 which would ensure more stand space at Beckton Bus Station. Now 101, 304 and 474 all duplicate each other between Beckton/Beckton Alps and Manor Park which is a waste of resources IMO. I also think 330 should have been extended to Prince Regent via Keir Hardie Estate and Custom House with 474 retaining its old routing (though I guess a link between North Woolwich and Custom House might have been required even though 473 goes to a Crossrail station). The irony in this is that Silvertown Way no longer has a night route and neither does the Royal Wharf area - a new housing estate that TFL want covered by a transport link. The East Ham to Manor Park corridor does need the 3 routes due to demand but I guess if that had extended the 101 they could have increased the frequency. I agree with the comment regarding so many buses to East Ham and it’s a bit of a running joke on here. The local area has so many buses going to one destination yet a popular shopping hub like Stratford lost its link unless passengers catch two buses or walk some distance. The 474 diversion was pretty poor IMO. I think TfL took passenger data from Canning Town to Keir Hardie but never considered where passengers left the buses. Guess this is the problem when you only have tap on and no tap off data. When the 129 come to the local area it’s not really going to add much unless passengers want to head south via the tunnel.
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Post by mkay315 on Nov 22, 2023 13:55:46 GMT
As an outsider but someone who visits the Custom House area and its surroundings quite regularly, I've always thought that these bus changes were poorly thought of - the 474 change in particular is terrible. Why does East Ham need so many bus routes to Custom House? While it's a busy place, it's not exactly booming, nor much of a major transport hub compared to Stratford for example. The introduction of 304 was unnecessary too and instead could have been covered by a re-route of 101 which would ensure more stand space at Beckton Bus Station. Now 101, 304 and 474 all duplicate each other between Beckton/Beckton Alps and Manor Park which is a waste of resources IMO. I also think 330 should have been extended to Prince Regent via Keir Hardie Estate and Custom House with 474 retaining its old routing (though I guess a link between North Woolwich and Custom House might have been required even though 473 goes to a Crossrail station). The irony in this is that Silvertown Way no longer has a night route and neither does the Royal Wharf area - a new housing estate that TFL want covered by a transport link. The East Ham to Manor Park corridor does need the 3 routes due to demand but I guess if that had extended the 101 they could have increased the frequency. I agree with the comment regarding so many buses to East Ham and it’s a bit of a running joke on here. The local area has so many buses going to one destination yet a popular shopping hub like Stratford lost its link unless passengers catch two buses or walk some distance. The 474 diversion was pretty poor IMO. I think TfL took passenger data from Canning Town to Keir Hardie but never considered where passengers left the buses. Guess this is the problem when you only have tap on and no tap off data. When the 129 come to the local area it’s not really going to add much unless passengers want to head south via the tunnel. I mean for the 129 it will be a good cheaper alternative for those that live in the Newham area that would like to go to the south of the river. It will give people an excuse not to pile on the 108 which is at the moment the only direct route from that borough that goes South of the river.
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