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Post by vjaska on Apr 29, 2022 10:29:07 GMT
Wouldn’t that make it a bit lengthy though not to mention the only support from Canning Town to Limehouse would be the single decker D6? Canning Town to Poplar is already one bus so that section should be fine, the section from Poplar to Limehouse is only a few stops so that would probably cope okay too with the D6 to support. When I have used the 15 from Poplar it’s never been that busy. In terms of length it probably is manageable there are other much longer routes. Just because other long routes exist doesn't mean this one should, don't fall into that trap of measuring a route by it's length rather than what the actual conditions along the route are like otherwise the 113 & 468 shouldn't exist as they are but they do because of favourable conditions. My reasoning was that the Central London section in places snarls up quite heavily at times not to mention there are probably other traffic hot spots along the route.
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Post by WH241 on Apr 29, 2022 10:56:05 GMT
Canning Town to Poplar is already one bus so that section should be fine, the section from Poplar to Limehouse is only a few stops so that would probably cope okay too with the D6 to support. When I have used the 15 from Poplar it’s never been that busy. In terms of length it probably is manageable there are other much longer routes. Just because other long routes exist doesn't mean this one should, don't fall into that trap of measuring a route by it's length rather than what the actual conditions along the route are like otherwise the 113 & 468 shouldn't exist as they are but they do because of favourable conditions. My reasoning was that the Central London section in places snarls up quite heavily at times not to mention there are probably other traffic hot spots along the route. Not falling into any trap, the 115 manages fine to Aldgate when the Blackwall Tunnel is not playing up then should manage the 15 section. The only issue is weekends when there are demos.
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Post by WH241 on Apr 29, 2022 16:46:14 GMT
With regards to the 15 there is of course nothing stopping TfL withdrawing the route from the east and extending a route from the west to cover Tower Hill - Trafalgar square instead. They could even introduce a Aldgate - Trafalgar Square route which I imagine could attract a lot of bids if such a route went to tender.
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Post by southlondonbus on Apr 29, 2022 17:04:35 GMT
With regards to the 15 there is of course nothing stopping TfL withdrawing the route from the east and extending a route from the west to cover Tower Hill - Trafalgar square instead. They could even introduce a Aldgate - Trafalgar Square route which I imagine could attract a lot of bids if such a route went to tender. Similar to the once proposed 11 Victoria to Liverpool Street. Maybe we will see more short central routes.
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Post by YX10FFN on Apr 29, 2022 17:15:51 GMT
With regards to the 15 there is of course nothing stopping TfL withdrawing the route from the east and extending a route from the west to cover Tower Hill - Trafalgar square instead. They could even introduce a Aldgate - Trafalgar Square route which I imagine could attract a lot of bids if such a route went to tender. If that would come to fruition there's not really any excuse to not run the route up to Oxford Circus or even further west, to reinstate the link between Oxford Street to the City
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Post by LondonNorthern on Apr 29, 2022 17:36:06 GMT
With regards to the 15 there is of course nothing stopping TfL withdrawing the route from the east and extending a route from the west to cover Tower Hill - Trafalgar square instead. They could even introduce a Aldgate - Trafalgar Square route which I imagine could attract a lot of bids if such a route went to tender. Similar to the once proposed 11 Victoria to Liverpool Street. Maybe we will see more short central routes. Plus I suppose demand is easier to adjust if shorter.
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Post by southlondonbus on Apr 29, 2022 17:55:28 GMT
With regards to the 15 there is of course nothing stopping TfL withdrawing the route from the east and extending a route from the west to cover Tower Hill - Trafalgar square instead. They could even introduce a Aldgate - Trafalgar Square route which I imagine could attract a lot of bids if such a route went to tender. If that would come to fruition there's not really any excuse to not run the route up to Oxford Circus or even further west, to reinstate the link between Oxford Street to the City I have toyed with the idea of separation central and zone2/3 from each other and have say 2 Paddington to Aldgate routes via the 15 and 25 routing and one from Paddington to Liverpool Street via the 8 as opposed to routes running for an hour from Bow Church then stopping just short of the west end and having no link from Bank to Oxford Circus anymore. Similar to Aldgate only having a link as far as TSQ or City Thameslink. North to South fares a bit better still with direct links from Elephant as far as Marylebone, Marble Arch, Notting Hill Gate (148/453), Elephant to Euston (68/168), Pimilico to Warren Street (24), vauxahll to Marylebone (2).
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Post by evergreenadam on Apr 29, 2022 19:50:03 GMT
Passengers aren't foolish, and TfL seem more cunning that they're given credit for. Bus services aren't only being withdrawn but also alternative bus routes to complete the same journey as well. The Aldwych- Oxford Street routes are a great case study for this. The 15 is pulled back from Paddington, still a few routes left to do the same journey. Then slowly the 23 was cut to Aldwych then rerouted away altogether, the 6 rerouted via Park Lane and then the old 13 ceased to exist. Now if there's a problem with the 139 (delays, diversions, RTCs etc) what other route will take passengers from Oxford Street to Aldwych? None, and so this mode of transport won't be considered if there's anything wrong with the 139. In psychology there's a term called nudging, pretty much coercive suggestion. This isn't nudging, TfL are straight up dismantling the bus network in central London to make it seem as the Tube is the only quick and reliable option. It isn't. Getting a bus from Chancery Lane to Holborn outside the peaks is quicker than going underground and coming back up again. TfL however has a problem with that reality, which is why the 25 and 242 are no longer running between the two points. I'm not sure that a lot of people want to travel from Oxford Street to Aldwych. In past days there were long supervised queues outside Charing Cross station with people wanting Regent Street/Oxford Street. Aldwych was the nearest turn. No long queues now. Walking from Chancery Lane to Holborn is quicker than waiting for a bus. The decline of the Aldwych to Oxford Street trunk corridor is truly amazing. I wonder where those people went.
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Post by southlondonbus on Apr 29, 2022 19:56:37 GMT
I'm not sure that a lot of people want to travel from Oxford Street to Aldwych. In past days there were long supervised queues outside Charing Cross station with people wanting Regent Street/Oxford Street. Aldwych was the nearest turn. No long queues now. Walking from Chancery Lane to Holborn is quicker than waiting for a bus. The decline of the Aldwych to Oxford Street trunk corridor is truly amazing. I wonder where those people went. Bakerloo line and walking probably. I remember being on the 15 when it used Routemasters 20 years and it was packed with tourists down Regent Street and past the Royal Courts of Justice and St Paul's.
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Apr 30, 2022 5:23:32 GMT
My recollection was that it was in two overlapping sections prior to the Central Changes when the 98 route was introduced. I think it was only Mon-Sat daytime there were overlapping sections. Quite possibly, an AC allocation was reintroduced in late 1991 probably in readiness for the change. Prior to that it was all BW Monday to Saturday and WH on Sundays with OPO Titans. In particular, in 1988-91 BW ran routes 8, 25, and nothing else! Admittedly, route 8 at the time was Bow Church - Willesden Garage. Also, route 25 had 2 overlapping sections: Victoria - Ilford and Aldgate - Becontree Heath.
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Apr 30, 2022 5:30:13 GMT
With regards to the 15 there is of course nothing stopping TfL withdrawing the route from the east and extending a route from the west to cover Tower Hill - Trafalgar square instead. They could even introduce a Aldgate - Trafalgar Square route which I imagine could attract a lot of bids if such a route went to tender. I wonder, for example, whether they could replace route 15 with an extension of route 6 to Aldgate and of route 242 to Blackwall.
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Post by WH241 on Apr 30, 2022 8:57:37 GMT
With regards to the 15 there is of course nothing stopping TfL withdrawing the route from the east and extending a route from the west to cover Tower Hill - Trafalgar square instead. They could even introduce a Aldgate - Trafalgar Square route which I imagine could attract a lot of bids if such a route went to tender. I wonder, for example, whether they could replace route 15 with an extension of route 6 to Aldgate and of route 242 to Blackwall. If Blackwall ever needs a replacement service they could double run either the D6 or D7 there.
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Post by southlondonbus on Apr 30, 2022 10:53:58 GMT
I wonder, for example, whether they could replace route 15 with an extension of route 6 to Aldgate and of route 242 to Blackwall. If Blackwall ever needs a replacement service they could double run either the D6 or D7 there. Arguably the 15 terminating at Blackwall was more for thr reason to have somewhere to stand the 15 when it needed shortening in 1999 as opposed to trying to provide a link to there.
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Post by WH241 on Apr 30, 2022 10:57:29 GMT
If Blackwall ever needs a replacement service they could double run either the D6 or D7 there. Arguably the 15 terminating at Blackwall was more for thr reason to have somewhere to stand the 15 when it needed shortening in 1999 as opposed to trying to provide a link to there. There has always been a bus service at Blackwall station since it opened, before the 15 there was the 330. I think there will always be a service that serves the station whichever route that might be.
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Post by MetrolineGA1511 on Apr 30, 2022 11:19:08 GMT
I wonder, for example, whether they could replace route 15 with an extension of route 6 to Aldgate and of route 242 to Blackwall. If Blackwall ever needs a replacement service they could double run either the D6 or D7 there. The reason I suggested route 242 was to maintain the link from Aldgate and thus a similar number of buses along Commercial Road.
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