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Post by ADH45258 on Jul 21, 2023 15:49:39 GMT
Does the Wimbledon branch actually need direct trains to Edgware Road, or would it be better if all went via Victoria/Embankment, changing at Gloucester Road for the Circle Line? Could maybe restructure the subsurface lines a bit to have the Circle Line double in frequency to every 5 minutes, also becoming the only line via High Street Kensington and via Ladbroke Grove. Get rid of the H&C line, with Aldgate Met Line services extended towards Barking (at least the Uxbridge services). Then all District Line trains running from Upminster/Barking, alternating to Wimbledon and Richmond. And of course the Piccadilly taking over Ealing Broadway. That would probably require a bit of work for the S8s to run beyond Aldgate, and a new junction for the Met Line to run from Aldgate through to Aldgate East- there probably isn't enough S8s for that service pattern. Probably best to leave it all as it is I believe there's already at least one S7+1 unit on the Metropolitan Line, so more could be formed if necessary. Alternatively could use 7-car units between Barking and Uxbridge if there are any length restrictions. The 8-car trains with the different seating layout are only really necessary for the longer journeys out via Rickmansworth. No new junction would be required. The Met line would no longer serve Aldgate, instead replacing H&C services via Aldgate East. However Circle Line services through Aldgate would double in frequency.
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Post by ThinLizzy on Jul 21, 2023 17:35:40 GMT
That would probably require a bit of work for the S8s to run beyond Aldgate, and a new junction for the Met Line to run from Aldgate through to Aldgate East- there probably isn't enough S8s for that service pattern. Probably best to leave it all as it is I believe there's already at least one S7+1 unit on the Metropolitan Line, so more could be formed if necessary. Alternatively could use 7-car units between Barking and Uxbridge if there are any length restrictions. The 8-car trains with the different seating layout are only really necessary for the longer journeys out via Rickmansworth. No new junction would be required. The Met line would no longer serve Aldgate, instead replacing H&C services via Aldgate East. However Circle Line services through Aldgate would double in frequency. how would you form more S8s?
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Post by capitalomnibus on Jul 21, 2023 19:01:14 GMT
I would love to ride one in the central section. I do miss them, if they had part side facing seats and aircon it would have been better. My poor 315's what have they done to them They grew on me the more I used them but I preferred the 317's more on the Cheshunt routes if I'm being honest The 317's were ok, they just looked a bit more butch and uglier imo
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Post by astock5000 on Jul 21, 2023 19:37:15 GMT
That would probably require a bit of work for the S8s to run beyond Aldgate, and a new junction for the Met Line to run from Aldgate through to Aldgate East- there probably isn't enough S8s for that service pattern. Probably best to leave it all as it is I believe there's already at least one S7+1 unit on the Metropolitan Line, so more could be formed if necessary. Alternatively could use 7-car units between Barking and Uxbridge if there are any length restrictions. The 8-car trains with the different seating layout are only really necessary for the longer journeys out via Rickmansworth. No new junction would be required. The Met line would no longer serve Aldgate, instead replacing H&C services via Aldgate East. However Circle Line services through Aldgate would double in frequency. There is currently one S7+1 unit running on the Met, and (is/was?) one further spare M2 type car in storage, but beyond that either you'd be reducing the total fleet of trains or a new batch of cars would be needed. While additional cars of 1996 stock were built for the Jubilee back in 2005, that was a larger order, while a more recent plan for a Jubilee / Northern top-up never came to fruition, so aside from any other considerations this would not likely be a simple, cost-effective project. In my opinion the current service pattern around the Circle is likely the best that can be achieved with the current infrastructure - while it would be more convenient if there was a way to run services through Baker Street from the west side of the Circle, the Hammersmith branch now requires a higher frequency than it tended to have in the past, as does the through Met service to the city. Those use up the track capacity between them, and then there's the operational advantage of avoiding the traditional Circle line service which had little opportunity to recover from delays. With the Hammersmith & City using the same stock as the District - and Hammersmith Depot no longer having significant maintenance facilities - along with the Met already being a complex line that at least in its current form can be 'isolated' from serious delays on the Circle by turning all trains at Baker Street (or Neasden Depot), again it's probably best that it's the H&C which heads out east. It was however once proposed to extend the Met's Uxbridge service to Barking as part of the upgrade, but I believe this may have been back when it was still intended for the H&C and Circle to remain 6-car, and therefore would have been greater increase in capacity compared to doing the same today. I'm currently unable to find any reference to train lengths from early proposals, but according to an old Metronet brochure from 2005 the Met would have received 72 new trains from a total sub-surface fleet of 190, whereas it has ended up with 59 (including the S7+1) out of 192.
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Post by LondonNorthern on Jul 24, 2023 20:25:12 GMT
Though impossible now, what would have been cool to have had as part of the Lizzy would have been to incorporate the Newbury Park to Ilford line that was operational until the Central Line was extended to Newbury Park and up towards Woodford, basically making the link redundant. Would be nice if brought back if possible
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Post by capitalomnibus on Jul 24, 2023 22:04:58 GMT
Though impossible now, what would have been cool to have had as part of the Lizzy would have been to incorporate the Newbury Park to Ilford line that was operational until the Central Line was extended to Newbury Park and up towards Woodford, basically making the link redundant. Would be nice if brought back if possible I cannot see this happening. The houses built up on the bit after Seven Kings during the past few years would have to be demolished. The sidings at Ilford would have to be modified and some parking space may be lost there if this was created and there is no way I can see tunnelling been done. In this current climate it would cost maybe £800 billion
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Post by LondonNorthern on Jul 24, 2023 22:28:17 GMT
Though impossible now, what would have been cool to have had as part of the Lizzy would have been to incorporate the Newbury Park to Ilford line that was operational until the Central Line was extended to Newbury Park and up towards Woodford, basically making the link redundant. Would be nice if brought back if possible I cannot see this happening. The houses built up on the bit after Seven Kings during the past few years would have to be demolished. The sidings at Ilford would have to be modified and some parking space may be lost there if this was created and there is no way I can see tunnelling been done. In this current climate it would cost maybe £800 billion Yep, would probably be impossible
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Post by southlondonbus on Jul 25, 2023 9:26:28 GMT
I believe there's already at least one S7+1 unit on the Metropolitan Line, so more could be formed if necessary. Alternatively could use 7-car units between Barking and Uxbridge if there are any length restrictions. The 8-car trains with the different seating layout are only really necessary for the longer journeys out via Rickmansworth. No new junction would be required. The Met line would no longer serve Aldgate, instead replacing H&C services via Aldgate East. However Circle Line services through Aldgate would double in frequency. There is currently one S7+1 unit running on the Met, and (is/was?) one further spare M2 type car in storage, but beyond that either you'd be reducing the total fleet of trains or a new batch of cars would be needed. While additional cars of 1996 stock were built for the Jubilee back in 2005, that was a larger order, while a more recent plan for a Jubilee / Northern top-up never came to fruition, so aside from any other considerations this would not likely be a simple, cost-effective project. In my opinion the current service pattern around the Circle is likely the best that can be achieved with the current infrastructure - while it would be more convenient if there was a way to run services through Baker Street from the west side of the Circle, the Hammersmith branch now requires a higher frequency than it tended to have in the past, as does the through Met service to the city. Those use up the track capacity between them, and then there's the operational advantage of avoiding the traditional Circle line service which had little opportunity to recover from delays. With the Hammersmith & City using the same stock as the District - and Hammersmith Depot no longer having significant maintenance facilities - along with the Met already being a complex line that at least in its current form can be 'isolated' from serious delays on the Circle by turning all trains at Baker Street (or Neasden Depot), again it's probably best that it's the H&C which heads out east. It was however once proposed to extend the Met's Uxbridge service to Barking as part of the upgrade, but I believe this may have been back when it was still intended for the H&C and Circle to remain 6-car, and therefore would have been greater increase in capacity compared to doing the same today. I'm currently unable to find any reference to train lengths from early proposals, but according to an old Metronet brochure from 2005 the Met would have received 72 new trains from a total sub-surface fleet of 190, whereas it has ended up with 59 (including the S7+1) out of 192. At one point the proposal was for the Hammersmith and City line to entirely replace the Circle line (they may have retained the circle line name) with all trains doing Hammersmith to Edgware Road via the Circle and the Met was going to go to Barking. At the time this could not be done as the A stock was banned east of Aldgate East.
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Post by capitalomnibus on Jul 25, 2023 9:41:46 GMT
There is currently one S7+1 unit running on the Met, and (is/was?) one further spare M2 type car in storage, but beyond that either you'd be reducing the total fleet of trains or a new batch of cars would be needed. While additional cars of 1996 stock were built for the Jubilee back in 2005, that was a larger order, while a more recent plan for a Jubilee / Northern top-up never came to fruition, so aside from any other considerations this would not likely be a simple, cost-effective project. In my opinion the current service pattern around the Circle is likely the best that can be achieved with the current infrastructure - while it would be more convenient if there was a way to run services through Baker Street from the west side of the Circle, the Hammersmith branch now requires a higher frequency than it tended to have in the past, as does the through Met service to the city. Those use up the track capacity between them, and then there's the operational advantage of avoiding the traditional Circle line service which had little opportunity to recover from delays. With the Hammersmith & City using the same stock as the District - and Hammersmith Depot no longer having significant maintenance facilities - along with the Met already being a complex line that at least in its current form can be 'isolated' from serious delays on the Circle by turning all trains at Baker Street (or Neasden Depot), again it's probably best that it's the H&C which heads out east. It was however once proposed to extend the Met's Uxbridge service to Barking as part of the upgrade, but I believe this may have been back when it was still intended for the H&C and Circle to remain 6-car, and therefore would have been greater increase in capacity compared to doing the same today. I'm currently unable to find any reference to train lengths from early proposals, but according to an old Metronet brochure from 2005 the Met would have received 72 new trains from a total sub-surface fleet of 190, whereas it has ended up with 59 (including the S7+1) out of 192. At one point the proposal was for the Hammersmith and City line to entirely replace the Circle line (they may have retained the circle line name) with all trains doing Hammersmith to Edgware Road via the Circle and the Met was going to go to Barking. At the time this could not be done as the A stock was banned east of Aldgate East. Why was the A-Stock banned east of Aldgate East?
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Post by southlondonbus on Jul 25, 2023 9:50:51 GMT
At one point the proposal was for the Hammersmith and City line to entirely replace the Circle line (they may have retained the circle line name) with all trains doing Hammersmith to Edgware Road via the Circle and the Met was going to go to Barking. At the time this could not be done as the A stock was banned east of Aldgate East. Why was the A-Stock banned east of Aldgate East? Not sure. Gauge infringements I think and the A stock was possibly a bit wider then other types.
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Post by Dstock7080 on Jul 25, 2023 9:52:35 GMT
Why was the A-Stock banned east of Aldgate East? Too long and wide for most platforms, although they have run to Barking Upminster and of course to New Cross depot
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Post by greenboy on Jul 25, 2023 11:11:49 GMT
Why was the A-Stock banned east of Aldgate East? Too long and wide for most platforms, although they have run to Barking Upminster and of course to New Cross depot I remember reading somewhere that if they ran out of service to Barking or Upminster they had to pass through stations slowly to avoid contact with the platform.
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Post by joefrombow on Jul 25, 2023 12:54:06 GMT
Why was the A-Stock banned east of Aldgate East? Too long and wide for most platforms, although they have run to Barking Upminster and of course to New Cross depot Videos of BR Mark 2 or 3 intercity coaches sets being hauled by LU Battery Locos on the District line on YouTube from the 80s/90s would never happen now of course it's a shame no A stock were preserved.
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Post by richard on Jul 25, 2023 15:35:02 GMT
Too long and wide for most platforms, although they have run to Barking Upminster and of course to New Cross depot Videos of BR Mark 2 or 3 intercity coaches sets being hauled by LU Battery Locos on the District line on YouTube from the 80s/90s would never happen now of course it's a shame no A stock were preserved. There's one car of A Stock preserved at the LTM depot in Acton
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Post by Dstock7080 on Jul 25, 2023 15:51:06 GMT
There's one car of A Stock preserved at the LTM depot in Acton There are two cars at the LTM Depot: 5034 6110
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