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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2018 18:16:25 GMT
This particular journalist is starting some interesting work If tfl are losing this much money, if nothing comes from central govt I think we're looking at total withdrawal of many bus routes. |
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Post by snoggle on Feb 7, 2018 18:34:21 GMT
This particular journalist is starting some interesting work If tfl are losing this much money, if nothing comes from central govt I think we're looking at total withdrawal of many bus routes. There is a bit of me that is wondering if the contents of the memo are a bit exaggerated in order to "hunker" staff down to crisis mode. Saying that TfL is not going to pay the interest on money it has borrowed is a very serious issue - that should start alarm bells ringing with the rating agencies and also lenders. I can't believe TfL are seriously going to default on that. To suddenly say "TfL will make a loss" is bizarre. TfL always makes a loss - so what? The issue is whether the losses can be funded. If we believe the business plan then yes they can. Is someone now saying, less than 2 months on, that the business plan is already wrong? This rather makes a mockery of the "calm" position TfL put forward to the Transport Committee. I do wonder if plans for extra DLR and Overground services are going to go on the back burner. One obvious saving is to cancel the recent order for more class 710 trains - it won't be popular but why run extra services if demand is falling / static? I think we are looking at some extremely serious issues on the bus network now. I agree that some routes may go altogether but off peak travel will be the next target with swingeing cuts very likely. |
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Post by sid on Feb 7, 2018 18:48:33 GMT
This particular journalist is starting some interesting work If tfl are losing this much money, if nothing comes from central govt I think we're looking at total withdrawal of many bus routes. Quite possibly and I would hope some moderate reductions, and many have been suggested on here, will take place before it ever gets to that stage. I think think there has been a decline in usage generally and not just in London due in no small part to changes in the way we live. More people working from home. More people shopping online. Less people going out in the evening to socialise, just look at the endless pub closures. Plus of course the onset of uber and the like. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2018 2:23:49 GMT
199 and 47 could merge and the bit between Deptford (a2209) and Deptford Bridge could be a re routed 225.
124 and 284 could very easily be combined. so much so that I might suggest it to TfL in all seriousness.
The fact that Catford has fifteen routes and other areas like Wembley and Wood Green have less is testament the fact that it is over bussed.
the merges of the 199/47 and 124/284 would mean that there are 13 routes which is a bit better in my opnion.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2018 12:00:43 GMT
I'll focus on my corner of TFL land. Feel free to disagree.
61
Becomes single decker.
124
Cut between Grove Park and Eltham. Terminates at Grove Park Station.
119
Night service cut between Croydon and Purley Way. Terminates at West Croydon.
160
Cut between Eltham and Sidcup. Terminates at Southend Crescent.
Does the B15's Horn Park loop. Becomes single decker.
161
Cut between Woolwich and North Greenwich. Becomes single decker.
162
Avery Hill section cut
246
Summer Sunday services to Chartwell cut.
273
St Mary Cray to Petts Wood section cut. Terminates at St Mary Cray Station.
320
Cut between Bromley and Catford. Terminates at Bromley North Station. Becomes single decker.
321
Cut between Lewisham and New Cross. Terminates at Lewisham Station. Night service cut.
336
Cut between Bickley and Locksbottom. Terminates at Bickley Station.
353
Cut between Orpington and Ramsden Estate. Terminates at Walnuts Centre.
358
Cut between Bromley and Orpington. Terminates at Bromley North Station.
422
Cut between Woolwich and North Greenwich. Becomes single decker.
428
Cut between Dartford and Bluewater.
492
Cut between Dartford and Bluewater. Becomes single decker.
B14
Cut between Sidcup and Orpington. Does a loop around Queen Mary's Hospital.
B15
Cut between Eltham and Horn Park. Terminates at Eltham Station.
N21
Cut between Eltham and Bexleyheath. Extended from Eltham to Sidcup. Terminates at Main Road/Station Road.
N89
Slade Green section cut, follows 229 route to Erith.
N199
Cut between Orpington and St Mary Cray. Terminates at Walnuts Centre (R2 stand).
R7
Cut between Petts Wood and Chislehurst. Terminates at Petts Wood Station.
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Post by sid on Feb 8, 2018 12:57:20 GMT
I'll focus on my corner of TFL land. Feel free to disagree. 61 Becomes single decker. 124 Cut between Grove Park and Eltham. Terminates at Grove Park Station. 119 Night service cut between Croydon and Purley Way. Terminates at West Croydon. 160 Cut between Eltham and Sidcup. Terminates at Southend Crescent. Does the B15's Horn Park loop. Becomes single decker. 161 Cut between Woolwich and North Greenwich. Becomes single decker. 162 Avery Hill section cut 246 Summer Sunday services to Chartwell cut. 273 St Mary Cray to Petts Wood section cut. Terminates at St Mary Cray Station. 320 Cut between Bromley and Catford. Terminates at Bromley North Station. Becomes single decker. 321 Cut between Lewisham and New Cross. Terminates at Lewisham Station. Night service cut. 336 Cut between Bickley and Locksbottom. Terminates at Bickley Station. 353 Cut between Orpington and Ramsden Estate. Terminates at Walnuts Centre. 358 Cut between Bromley and Orpington. Terminates at Bromley North Station. 422 Cut between Woolwich and North Greenwich. Becomes single decker. 428 Cut between Dartford and Bluewater. 492 Cut between Dartford and Bluewater. Becomes single decker. B14 Cut between Sidcup and Orpington. Does a loop around Queen Mary's Hospital. B15 Cut between Eltham and Horn Park. Terminates at Eltham Station. N21 Cut between Eltham and Bexleyheath. Extended from Eltham to Sidcup. Terminates at Main Road/Station Road. N89 Slade Green section cut, follows 229 route to Erith. N199 Cut between Orpington and St Mary Cray. Terminates at Walnuts Centre (R2 stand). R7 Cut between Petts Wood and Chislehurst. Terminates at Petts Wood Station. I agree with some although some seem a bit servere, I wouldn't want to leave any section unserved. 61 Should be ok apart from possibly school loadings? 119 Possibly, night service could certainly manage with single deckers. 124 I think there is a case for alternate journeys only beyond Grove Park to Eltham. 160 Agree 161 Agree but not sure about single deckers, I'd also extend it to Orpington replacing that section of the 61 but stand space is an issue. 162 Disagree, wouldn't want to leave it unserved. 246 Possibly 273 Disagree 320 Agree but not sure about single deckers, heavy peak and school time loadings. 321 Agree 336 Possibly a case for withdrawing the Bromley Garage to Locks Bottom section? 353 Agree 358 Disagree but probably a case for a frequency reduction? 422 Disagree, very busy peak times. 428 Possibly? 492 Agree although again school loadings are an issue. B14 Possibly? B15 Agree N21 Agree N89 Possibly? N199 Either that or extend it to Sidcup, St Mary Cray is rather in the middle of nowhere for a night route. R7 Disagree The need to cater for school loadings does again highlight the cost of free travel for children. |
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Post by vjaska on Feb 8, 2018 14:08:57 GMT
I'll focus on my corner of TFL land. Feel free to disagree. 61 Becomes single decker. 124 Cut between Grove Park and Eltham. Terminates at Grove Park Station. 119 Night service cut between Croydon and Purley Way. Terminates at West Croydon. 160 Cut between Eltham and Sidcup. Terminates at Southend Crescent. Does the B15's Horn Park loop. Becomes single decker. 161 Cut between Woolwich and North Greenwich. Becomes single decker. 162 Avery Hill section cut 246 Summer Sunday services to Chartwell cut. 273 St Mary Cray to Petts Wood section cut. Terminates at St Mary Cray Station. 320 Cut between Bromley and Catford. Terminates at Bromley North Station. Becomes single decker. 321 Cut between Lewisham and New Cross. Terminates at Lewisham Station. Night service cut. 336 Cut between Bickley and Locksbottom. Terminates at Bickley Station. 353 Cut between Orpington and Ramsden Estate. Terminates at Walnuts Centre. 358 Cut between Bromley and Orpington. Terminates at Bromley North Station. 422 Cut between Woolwich and North Greenwich. Becomes single decker. 428 Cut between Dartford and Bluewater. 492 Cut between Dartford and Bluewater. Becomes single decker. B14 Cut between Sidcup and Orpington. Does a loop around Queen Mary's Hospital. B15 Cut between Eltham and Horn Park. Terminates at Eltham Station. N21 Cut between Eltham and Bexleyheath. Extended from Eltham to Sidcup. Terminates at Main Road/Station Road. N89 Slade Green section cut, follows 229 route to Erith. N199 Cut between Orpington and St Mary Cray. Terminates at Walnuts Centre (R2 stand). R7 Cut between Petts Wood and Chislehurst. Terminates at Petts Wood Station. Surely single decking the 61 actually negates any savings as I thought running single deckers were more expensive not to mention you'd need to then spend money on a school route shadowing the 61 or at least a massive chunk of it? |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2018 14:29:38 GMT
I'll focus on my corner of TFL land. Feel free to disagree. 61 Becomes single decker. 124 Cut between Grove Park and Eltham. Terminates at Grove Park Station. 119 Night service cut between Croydon and Purley Way. Terminates at West Croydon. 160 Cut between Eltham and Sidcup. Terminates at Southend Crescent. Does the B15's Horn Park loop. Becomes single decker. 161 Cut between Woolwich and North Greenwich. Becomes single decker. 162 Avery Hill section cut 246 Summer Sunday services to Chartwell cut. 273 St Mary Cray to Petts Wood section cut. Terminates at St Mary Cray Station. 320 Cut between Bromley and Catford. Terminates at Bromley North Station. Becomes single decker. 321 Cut between Lewisham and New Cross. Terminates at Lewisham Station. Night service cut. 336 Cut between Bickley and Locksbottom. Terminates at Bickley Station. 353 Cut between Orpington and Ramsden Estate. Terminates at Walnuts Centre. 358 Cut between Bromley and Orpington. Terminates at Bromley North Station. 422 Cut between Woolwich and North Greenwich. Becomes single decker. 428 Cut between Dartford and Bluewater. 492 Cut between Dartford and Bluewater. Becomes single decker. B14 Cut between Sidcup and Orpington. Does a loop around Queen Mary's Hospital. B15 Cut between Eltham and Horn Park. Terminates at Eltham Station. N21 Cut between Eltham and Bexleyheath. Extended from Eltham to Sidcup. Terminates at Main Road/Station Road. N89 Slade Green section cut, follows 229 route to Erith. N199 Cut between Orpington and St Mary Cray. Terminates at Walnuts Centre (R2 stand). R7 Cut between Petts Wood and Chislehurst. Terminates at Petts Wood Station. Surely single decking the 61 actually negates any savings as I thought running single deckers were more expensive not to mention you'd need to then spend money on a school route shadowing the 61 or at least a massive chunk of it? I'm by no means an expert, but I would have thought a single decker would be cheaper to run than a double decker. |
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Post by PaulH on Feb 8, 2018 16:21:02 GMT
I'll focus on my corner of TFL land. Feel free to disagree. 61 Becomes single decker. 124 Cut between Grove Park and Eltham. Terminates at Grove Park Station. 119 Night service cut between Croydon and Purley Way. Terminates at West Croydon. 160 Cut between Eltham and Sidcup. Terminates at Southend Crescent. Does the B15's Horn Park loop. Becomes single decker. 161 Cut between Woolwich and North Greenwich. Becomes single decker. 162 Avery Hill section cut 246 Summer Sunday services to Chartwell cut. 273 St Mary Cray to Petts Wood section cut. Terminates at St Mary Cray Station. 320 Cut between Bromley and Catford. Terminates at Bromley North Station. Becomes single decker. 321 Cut between Lewisham and New Cross. Terminates at Lewisham Station. Night service cut. 336 Cut between Bickley and Locksbottom. Terminates at Bickley Station. 353 Cut between Orpington and Ramsden Estate. Terminates at Walnuts Centre. 358 Cut between Bromley and Orpington. Terminates at Bromley North Station. 422 Cut between Woolwich and North Greenwich. Becomes single decker. 428 Cut between Dartford and Bluewater. 492 Cut between Dartford and Bluewater. Becomes single decker. B14 Cut between Sidcup and Orpington. Does a loop around Queen Mary's Hospital. B15 Cut between Eltham and Horn Park. Terminates at Eltham Station. N21 Cut between Eltham and Bexleyheath. Extended from Eltham to Sidcup. Terminates at Main Road/Station Road. N89 Slade Green section cut, follows 229 route to Erith. N199 Cut between Orpington and St Mary Cray. Terminates at Walnuts Centre (R2 stand). R7 Cut between Petts Wood and Chislehurst. Terminates at Petts Wood Station. The 358 cut would leave Farnborough Village without a bus service. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2018 16:26:31 GMT
I'll focus on my corner of TFL land. Feel free to disagree. 61 Becomes single decker. 124 Cut between Grove Park and Eltham. Terminates at Grove Park Station. 119 Night service cut between Croydon and Purley Way. Terminates at West Croydon. 160 Cut between Eltham and Sidcup. Terminates at Southend Crescent. Does the B15's Horn Park loop. Becomes single decker. 161 Cut between Woolwich and North Greenwich. Becomes single decker. 162 Avery Hill section cut 246 Summer Sunday services to Chartwell cut. 273 St Mary Cray to Petts Wood section cut. Terminates at St Mary Cray Station. 320 Cut between Bromley and Catford. Terminates at Bromley North Station. Becomes single decker. 321 Cut between Lewisham and New Cross. Terminates at Lewisham Station. Night service cut. 336 Cut between Bickley and Locksbottom. Terminates at Bickley Station. 353 Cut between Orpington and Ramsden Estate. Terminates at Walnuts Centre. 358 Cut between Bromley and Orpington. Terminates at Bromley North Station. 422 Cut between Woolwich and North Greenwich. Becomes single decker. 428 Cut between Dartford and Bluewater. 492 Cut between Dartford and Bluewater. Becomes single decker. B14 Cut between Sidcup and Orpington. Does a loop around Queen Mary's Hospital. B15 Cut between Eltham and Horn Park. Terminates at Eltham Station. N21 Cut between Eltham and Bexleyheath. Extended from Eltham to Sidcup. Terminates at Main Road/Station Road. N89 Slade Green section cut, follows 229 route to Erith. N199 Cut between Orpington and St Mary Cray. Terminates at Walnuts Centre (R2 stand). R7 Cut between Petts Wood and Chislehurst. Terminates at Petts Wood Station. The 358 cut would leave Farnborough Village without a bus service. You could extend the R11 to Farnborough. |
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Post by Green Kitten on Feb 8, 2018 16:37:19 GMT
199 and 47 could merge and the bit between Deptford (a2209) and Deptford Bridge could be a re routed 225. 124 and 284 could very easily be combined. so much so that I might suggest it to TfL in all seriousness. The fact that Catford has fifteen routes and other areas like Wembley and Wood Green have less is testament the fact that it is over bussed. the merges of the 199/47 and 124/284 would mean that there are 13 routes which is a bit better in my opnion. The different sized buses for the 124/284 might pose a problem. Wood Green/Wembley may have less buses but they have frequent tube services. Also a lot of the routes in those areas have very high frequencies (18, 29, 243 etc) |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2018 16:54:35 GMT
I'll focus on my corner of TFL land. Feel free to disagree. 61 Becomes single decker. 124 Cut between Grove Park and Eltham. Terminates at Grove Park Station. 119 Night service cut between Croydon and Purley Way. Terminates at West Croydon. 160 Cut between Eltham and Sidcup. Terminates at Southend Crescent. Does the B15's Horn Park loop. Becomes single decker. 161 Cut between Woolwich and North Greenwich. Becomes single decker. 162 Avery Hill section cut 246 Summer Sunday services to Chartwell cut. 273 St Mary Cray to Petts Wood section cut. Terminates at St Mary Cray Station. 320 Cut between Bromley and Catford. Terminates at Bromley North Station. Becomes single decker. 321 Cut between Lewisham and New Cross. Terminates at Lewisham Station. Night service cut. 336 Cut between Bickley and Locksbottom. Terminates at Bickley Station. 353 Cut between Orpington and Ramsden Estate. Terminates at Walnuts Centre. 358 Cut between Bromley and Orpington. Terminates at Bromley North Station. 422 Cut between Woolwich and North Greenwich. Becomes single decker. 428 Cut between Dartford and Bluewater. 492 Cut between Dartford and Bluewater. Becomes single decker. B14 Cut between Sidcup and Orpington. Does a loop around Queen Mary's Hospital. B15 Cut between Eltham and Horn Park. Terminates at Eltham Station. N21 Cut between Eltham and Bexleyheath. Extended from Eltham to Sidcup. Terminates at Main Road/Station Road. N89 Slade Green section cut, follows 229 route to Erith. N199 Cut between Orpington and St Mary Cray. Terminates at Walnuts Centre (R2 stand). R7 Cut between Petts Wood and Chislehurst. Terminates at Petts Wood Station. Some comments from me: 61 No objection. 124 No objection. 119 No objection. 160 Single decking this route would mean extra journeys would be needed on the 660. Seems a waste of money, and I'm sure TfL would try and avoid a 601 situation where you have such a high PVR! 161 I don't think single decking it will go down well, especially with Crossrail coming. 162 No objection. 246 No objection. 273 No objection. 320 Losing the current link to Biggin Hill Airport wouldn't go down well. This would also make the 320 quite a small route. 321 Agree. 336 No Objection. 353 Loses links to National Rail at Orpington. 358 Loses links to National Rail at Orpington. 422 Strongly Disagree. Busy at Peak Times and will make the 108 even more overcrowded as there will no longer be a DD route to NG on Westcombe Hill and Blackheath Standard. Woolwich Road and new Greenwich Square developments lose links to North Greenwich. 428 Agree 492 Single Decking it will need a new school route or DD school journeys. B14 Already does a loop round the hospital. Otherwise, agree. B15 Agree N21 Agree N89 Agree N199 Agree R7 No objection |
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Post by YY13VKP on Feb 8, 2018 17:09:14 GMT
As much as I'd hate cutting bus routes, if there's one route I had to cut, it would be the 407.
I would withdraw the route between West Croydon and Sutton Town Centre, because as it is, it is rather elongated, and buses in the morning peaks often get curtailed. I did think of splitting the route into two, but people can also get a train between West Croydon and Sutton, unless the new route was extended further, to either Belmont or Wimbledon.
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Post by joefrombow on Feb 8, 2018 17:13:24 GMT
199 and 47 could merge and the bit between Deptford (a2209) and Deptford Bridge could be a re routed 225. 124 and 284 could very easily be combined. so much so that I might suggest it to TfL in all seriousness. The fact that Catford has fifteen routes and other areas like Wembley and Wood Green have less is testament the fact that it is over bussed. the merges of the 199/47 and 124/284 would mean that there are 13 routes which is a bit better in my opnion. What about Pepys Estate on the 199 ? And I think if Night routes started earlier say 22:00 on major trunk routes when traffic is dead could be a few savings there . |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2018 17:14:37 GMT
I'll focus on my corner of TFL land. Feel free to disagree. 61 Becomes single decker. 124 Cut between Grove Park and Eltham. Terminates at Grove Park Station. 119 Night service cut between Croydon and Purley Way. Terminates at West Croydon. 160 Cut between Eltham and Sidcup. Terminates at Southend Crescent. Does the B15's Horn Park loop. Becomes single decker. 161 Cut between Woolwich and North Greenwich. Becomes single decker. 162 Avery Hill section cut 246 Summer Sunday services to Chartwell cut. 273 St Mary Cray to Petts Wood section cut. Terminates at St Mary Cray Station. 320 Cut between Bromley and Catford. Terminates at Bromley North Station. Becomes single decker. 321 Cut between Lewisham and New Cross. Terminates at Lewisham Station. Night service cut. 336 Cut between Bickley and Locksbottom. Terminates at Bickley Station. 353 Cut between Orpington and Ramsden Estate. Terminates at Walnuts Centre. 358 Cut between Bromley and Orpington. Terminates at Bromley North Station. 422 Cut between Woolwich and North Greenwich. Becomes single decker. 428 Cut between Dartford and Bluewater. 492 Cut between Dartford and Bluewater. Becomes single decker. B14 Cut between Sidcup and Orpington. Does a loop around Queen Mary's Hospital. B15 Cut between Eltham and Horn Park. Terminates at Eltham Station. N21 Cut between Eltham and Bexleyheath. Extended from Eltham to Sidcup. Terminates at Main Road/Station Road. N89 Slade Green section cut, follows 229 route to Erith. N199 Cut between Orpington and St Mary Cray. Terminates at Walnuts Centre (R2 stand). R7 Cut between Petts Wood and Chislehurst. Terminates at Petts Wood Station. Some comments from me: 61 No objection. 124 No objection. 119 No objection. 160 Single decking this route would mean extra journeys would be needed on the 660. Seems a waste of money, and I'm sure TfL would try and avoid a 601 situation where you have such a high PVR! 161 I don't think single decking it will go down well, especially with Crossrail coming. 162 No objection. 246 No objection. 273 No objection. 320 Losing the current link to Biggin Hill Airport wouldn't go down well. This would also make the 320 quite a small route. 321 Agree. 336 No Objection. 353 Loses links to National Rail at Orpington. 358 Loses links to National Rail at Orpington. 422 Strongly Disagree. Busy at Peak Times and will make the 108 even more overcrowded as there will no longer be a DD route to NG on Westcombe Hill and Blackheath Standard. Woolwich Road and new Greenwich Square developments lose links to North Greenwich. 428 Agree 492 Single Decking it will need a new school route or DD school journeys. B14 Already does a loop round the hospital. Otherwise, agree. B15 Agree N21 Agree N89 Agree N199 Agree R7 No objection 353 Who loses the link to Orpington station? Ramsden Estate? They have the R9. B14 I mentioned the Queen Mary's Hospital loop because there is no room for it to stand there. |
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