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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2018 17:16:42 GMT
Some comments from me: 61 No objection. 124 No objection. 119 No objection. 160 Single decking this route would mean extra journeys would be needed on the 660. Seems a waste of money, and I'm sure TfL would try and avoid a 601 situation where you have such a high PVR! 161 I don't think single decking it will go down well, especially with Crossrail coming. 162 No objection. 246 No objection. 273 No objection. 320 Losing the current link to Biggin Hill Airport wouldn't go down well. This would also make the 320 quite a small route. 321 Agree. 336 No Objection. 353 Loses links to National Rail at Orpington. 358 Loses links to National Rail at Orpington. 422 Strongly Disagree. Busy at Peak Times and will make the 108 even more overcrowded as there will no longer be a DD route to NG on Westcombe Hill and Blackheath Standard. Woolwich Road and new Greenwich Square developments lose links to North Greenwich. 428 Agree 492 Single Decking it will need a new school route or DD school journeys. B14 Already does a loop round the hospital. Otherwise, agree. B15 Agree N21 Agree N89 Agree N199 Agree R7 No objection 353 Who loses the link to Orpington station? Ramsden Estate? They have the R9. Oops! Forgot about the R9. |
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Post by ServerKing on Feb 8, 2018 17:29:42 GMT
This particular journalist is starting some interesting work If tfl are losing this much money, if nothing comes from central govt I think we're looking at total withdrawal of many bus routes. Quite possibly and I would hope some moderate reductions, and many have been suggested on here, will take place before it ever gets to that stage. I think think there has been a decline in usage generally and not just in London due in no small part to changes in the way we live. More people working from home. More people shopping online. Less people going out in the evening to socialise, just look at the endless pub closures. Plus of course the onset of uber and the like. Maybe so, sid but outside the M25 they are trying to do something to staunch the bleeding a little, with schemes that work to encourage people onto the bus ie WiFi, leather seats, USB charging etc. Look at Stagecoach Gold, Blackpool Palladium, Arriva Sapphire. Everything in London is low-rent. Plus they have open roads, we have congested ones. I guess a few must be going out somewhere (look at the quality of Saturday Night TV - even if you have all the channels) as staying in - especially for young people - is a fate worse than death  But if you hit the club, you'd never go by bus anyway when you can Tour the City in an Addison Lee, to quote J-Hus (rapper / singer)  Online shopping may still need a trip to the eBay collection point / Argos FastTrack, but the inevitable cuts will mean fewer buses (are they still running the Emirates Dangleway? That can go) but the bloated salaries have to be cut for those at the top. Bus Deregulation may be the only way forward, if I had to pay more but was getting quality for it, I wouldn't mind. The bargain basement stuff we have at the moment is an embarrassment. Still, I'm sure it will be mentioned in the next Buses mag  |
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Post by sid on Feb 8, 2018 17:47:58 GMT
As much as I'd hate cutting bus routes, if there's one route I had to cut, it would be the 407. I would withdraw the route between West Croydon and Sutton Town Centre, because as it is, it is rather elongated, and buses in the morning peaks often get curtailed. I did think of splitting the route into two, but people can also get a train between West Croydon and Sutton, unless the new route was extended further, to either Belmont or Wimbledon. The 403 could be extended to Sutton as indeed it used to do with the 407 doing West Croydon to Caterham. Alternatively extend the 312 to Caterham and withdraw the 407 altogether? |
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Post by snoggle on Feb 8, 2018 17:56:52 GMT
Maybe so, sid but outside the M25 they are trying to do something to staunch the bleeding a little, with schemes that work to encourage people onto the bus ie WiFi, leather seats, USB charging etc. Look at Stagecoach Gold, Blackpool Palladium, Arriva Sapphire. Everything in London is low-rent. Plus they have open roads, we have congested ones. Online shopping may still need a trip to the eBay collection point / Argos FastTrack, but the inevitable cuts will mean fewer buses (are they still running the Emirates Dangleway? That can go) but the bloated salaries have to be cut for those at the top. Bus Deregulation may be the only way forward, if I had to pay more but was getting quality for it, I wouldn't mind. The bargain basement stuff we have at the moment is an embarrassment. Still, I'm sure it will be mentioned in the next Buses mag Most towns and cities in the UK suffer chronic traffic congestion simply because so many people have given up on buses and have switched to cars. To suggest London is the only place with congestion is simply not true. You may get some slightly faster runs on some roads between towns but that's it. Deregulation is not coming to London so there's no need to start wishing for it. Talk about the cure being worse than the illness. By your own comments on here you hardly use the bus as you have use of a car and a company vehicle if I've been following properly. I can't see that you would use a more expensive service with glitzy seats more often. Been interesting see the tweets from the UK Bus Summit today. Those about the TfL people who did presentations would seem to suggest that those at Palestra are not aware of what is happening on their watch or they are quite happy to say one thing at an industry meeting but have actual plans that are completely contrary. Just look at that tweet and the others in the thread! Remarks about the bus being the glue that holds the Nighttime economy together - yep that's why you've lopped off 50% of the services in 6 months. Then "can't afford heavy rail, have to consider buses" - while cutting bus services across London and with another 7% due. Talk about shameless hypocrisy!    |
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Post by rugbyref on Feb 8, 2018 19:02:54 GMT
358. No way. Not only do you remove all bus services from Farnborough Village, and the A21 up to the hospital, but removes the direct link from Green Street Green to Orpington Station. ( You can’t count the once in a blue moon R8 and R5/10!) Also removes the well used service from GSG to Bromley. Don’t want to be rude, but this suggestion is plain daft.
When we had the farcical Orpington consultation I suggested diverting the R11 via Farnborough Village to terminate at Farnborough Hospital. Suggestion was ignored.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2018 19:49:09 GMT
358. No way. Not only do you remove all bus services from Farnborough Village, and the A21 up to the hospital, but removes the direct link from Green Street Green to Orpington Station. ( You can’t count the once in a blue moon R8 and R5/10!) Also removes the well used service from GSG to Bromley. Don’t want to be rude, but this suggestion is plain daft. When we had the farcical Orpington consultation I suggested diverting the R11 via Farnborough Village to terminate at Farnborough Hospital. Suggestion was ignored. I hate the 358 it's too long for an around the world route. I'd at least cut it in two from Bromley or Beckenham. |
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Post by sid on Feb 8, 2018 20:24:58 GMT
358. No way. Not only do you remove all bus services from Farnborough Village, and the A21 up to the hospital, but removes the direct link from Green Street Green to Orpington Station. ( You can’t count the once in a blue moon R8 and R5/10!) Also removes the well used service from GSG to Bromley. Don’t want to be rude, but this suggestion is plain daft. When we had the farcical Orpington consultation I suggested diverting the R11 via Farnborough Village to terminate at Farnborough Hospital. Suggestion was ignored. I hate the 358 it's too long for an around the world route. I'd at least cut it in two from Bromley or Beckenham. I'd be reluctant to change the 358, it's not really intended for end to end travel but it does provide a lot of useful links. |
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Post by snoggle on Feb 8, 2018 21:24:25 GMT
358. No way. Not only do you remove all bus services from Farnborough Village, and the A21 up to the hospital, but removes the direct link from Green Street Green to Orpington Station. ( You can’t count the once in a blue moon R8 and R5/10!) Also removes the well used service from GSG to Bromley. Don’t want to be rude, but this suggestion is plain daft. When we had the farcical Orpington consultation I suggested diverting the R11 via Farnborough Village to terminate at Farnborough Hospital. Suggestion was ignored. I hate the 358 it's too long for an around the world route. I'd at least cut it in two from Bromley or Beckenham. I appreciate this is an enthusiast's forum but you'd wreck a longstanding route like the 358 because you "hate it"? Well that's a new justification. I'd leave it alone - yes it's a bit "round the houses" but I was happy to sit on it from Bromley to Crystal Palace to then catch the Overground. It was either that or the slog on the 208 to Lewisham for the DLR. The 358 is also decently frequent for an outer London route - another reason to leave it alone. I can't see a split route retaining the same frequencies. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2018 22:10:47 GMT
I hate the 358 it's too long for an around the world route. I'd at least cut it in two from Bromley or Beckenham. I appreciate this is an enthusiast's forum but you'd wreck a longstanding route like the 358 because you "hate it"? Well that's a new justification. I'd leave it alone - yes it's a bit "round the houses" but I was happy to sit on it from Bromley to Crystal Palace to then catch the Overground. It was either that or the slog on the 208 to Lewisham for the DLR. The 358 is also decently frequent for an outer London route - another reason to leave it alone. I can't see a split route retaining the same frequencies. I'm just not keen on an around the houses routes being so long, it's a pet peeve I guess. |
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Post by PaulH on Feb 8, 2018 22:42:49 GMT
The 358 cut would leave Farnborough Village without a bus service. You could extend the R11 to Farnborough. It would have to be extended further than Farnborough Village as the old turning point/stand is no longer there and, to my knowledge, there is no where else to turn/stand a bus there. The old 47, 51, 229 etc stand in the middle of the road being long since removed and replaced by public realm works. Even if the old turning point/stand was restored by the removal of the seats, the long established trees, flagpole etc I don't think that customers boarding in the middle of the road would be acceptable to TfL these days. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2018 23:23:12 GMT
You could extend the R11 to Farnborough. It would have to be extended further than Farnborough Village as the old turning point/stand is no longer there and, to my knowledge, there is no where else to turn/stand a bus there. The old 47, 51, 229 etc stand in the middle of the road being long since removed and replaced by public realm works. Even if the old turning point/stand was restored by the removal of the seats, the long established trees, flagpole etc I don't think that customers boarding in the middle of the road would be acceptable to TfL these days. It would have to be PRU then. |
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Post by 6HP502C on Feb 9, 2018 1:05:38 GMT
199 and 47 could merge and the bit between Deptford (a2209) and Deptford Bridge could be a re routed 225. 124 and 284 could very easily be combined. so much so that I might suggest it to TfL in all seriousness. The fact that Catford has fifteen routes and other areas like Wembley and Wood Green have less is testament the fact that it is over bussed. the merges of the 199/47 and 124/284 would mean that there are 13 routes which is a bit better in my opnion. I'm not sure the 124 and 284 are easily combined. Which would you leave unserved - Verdant Lane or Torridon Road and the Excalibur Estate? Both are densely populated and generate enough demand to warrant their own service. Sacrifice the 284's routing and you have 8.9m single door buses running out of Lewisham to a substantial freehold area of Ladywell. You'd also need to signficantly boost the frequency of the route to cope with demand in the Catford East area (Sangley Road alone warranted a siphoning of the 160 from the South Circ) and that would mean increasing the traffic conflict problems in the North Downham area. You can't sacrifice the 124's routing because of the hardship it would cause. Some of the area surrounding Torridon Road is already well over a 5 minute walk from a bus stop. Even so, the 124 is a lifeline to the people living there. |
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Post by 6HP502C on Feb 9, 2018 1:53:18 GMT
358. No way. Not only do you remove all bus services from Farnborough Village, and the A21 up to the hospital, but removes the direct link from Green Street Green to Orpington Station. ( You can’t count the once in a blue moon R8 and R5/10!) Also removes the well used service from GSG to Bromley. Don’t want to be rude, but this suggestion is plain daft. When we had the farcical Orpington consultation I suggested diverting the R11 via Farnborough Village to terminate at Farnborough Hospital. Suggestion was ignored. I hate the 358 it's too long for an around the world route. I'd at least cut it in two from Bromley or Beckenham. I used that route to commute between Bromley South and Green Street Green bus garage and it seemed pretty direct to me. Routes that wind around are useful because they create links for a lot of people to get into their nearest town centre or to their nearest station. Other, more direct routes between its major objectives are available and serve a different purpose. |
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Post by vjaska on Feb 9, 2018 2:44:45 GMT
199 and 47 could merge and the bit between Deptford (a2209) and Deptford Bridge could be a re routed 225. 124 and 284 could very easily be combined. so much so that I might suggest it to TfL in all seriousness. The fact that Catford has fifteen routes and other areas like Wembley and Wood Green have less is testament the fact that it is over bussed. the merges of the 199/47 and 124/284 would mean that there are 13 routes which is a bit better in my opnion. Wood Green has one less route than Catford (14 daytime routes) whilst Wembley (if by Wembley, you mean specifically Wembley Park & Wembley Central has two less routes (13 daytime routes) so hardly overbussed now. Let's not forget that Catford is a busy place especially the corridor between Catford & Lewisham which is why so many routes run along there in the first place - if you combine the 47 & 199, the route that survives would struggle as a result of more strain being placed onto it. As for the 124 & 284 merger, both routes operate at different frequencies and use different sized buses for good reason - as 6HP502C mentioned, you also end up loosing one section as a result which wouldn't be ideal. |
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Post by sid on Feb 9, 2018 10:11:42 GMT
Some more ideas for the same area.
124
Withdrawn Grove Park to Eltham. See 284.
126
Withdrawn completely.
181
Withdrawn Downham to Grove Park, pretty dead section.
199
Extended to Bromley using current 126 stand.
284
Withdrawn from Grove Park Cemetery and rerouted via 124 to Eltham. Rerouted between Catford and Lewisham direct via Rushey Green serving Lewisham hospital. Converted to double decker.
320
Withdrawn Bromley to Catford, rerouted to Grove Park Cemetery as part replacement for 126.
380
Extended via current 284 route to Catford, 320 stand or TL.
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But if you hit the club, you'd never go by bus anyway when you can Tour the City in an Addison Lee, to quote
