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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2018 11:55:22 GMT
Some more ideas for the same area. 124 Withdrawn Grove Park to Eltham. See 284. 126 Withdrawn completely. 181 Withdrawn Downham to Grove Park, pretty dead section. 199 Extended to Bromley using current 126 stand. 284 Withdrawn from Grove Park Cemetery and rerouted via 124 to Eltham. Rerouted between Catford and Lewisham direct via Rushey Green serving Lewisham hospital. Converted to double decker. 320 Withdrawn Bromley to Catford, rerouted to Grove Park Cemetery as part replacement for 126. 380 Extended via current 284 route to Catford, 320 stand or TL. The only problem with this is it leaves Mottingham without a route to Bromley and also with only two routes (161 and 284). |
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Post by sid on Feb 9, 2018 12:19:05 GMT
Some more ideas for the same area. 124 Withdrawn Grove Park to Eltham. See 284. 126 Withdrawn completely. 181 Withdrawn Downham to Grove Park, pretty dead section. 199 Extended to Bromley using current 126 stand. 284 Withdrawn from Grove Park Cemetery and rerouted via 124 to Eltham. Rerouted between Catford and Lewisham direct via Rushey Green serving Lewisham hospital. Converted to double decker. 320 Withdrawn Bromley to Catford, rerouted to Grove Park Cemetery as part replacement for 126. 380 Extended via current 284 route to Catford, 320 stand or TL. The only problem with this is it leaves Mottingham without a route to Bromley and also with only two routes (161 and 284). Indeed although I would think two routes were sufficient and Mottingham would gain a link to Lewisham. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2018 12:26:48 GMT
The only problem with this is it leaves Mottingham without a route to Bromley and also with only two routes (161 and 284). Indeed although I would think two routes were sufficient and Mottingham would gain a link to Lewisham. They would but a lot of people use the 126 from Mottingham to get to Bromley for work and leisure. |
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Post by sid on Feb 9, 2018 12:33:55 GMT
Indeed although I would think two routes were sufficient and Mottingham would gain a link to Lewisham. They would but a lot of people use the 126 from Mottingham to get to Bromley for work and leisure. It's difficult to see how both the 124 and 126 can be justified. Take away the 124 and the link to Catford is lost, take away the 126 and the link to Bromley is lost. The 124 is restricted to small buses hence my suggestion of replacing it with the 284. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2018 12:47:39 GMT
They would but a lot of people use the 126 from Mottingham to get to Bromley for work and leisure. It's difficult to see how both the 124 and 126 can be justified. Take away the 124 and the link to Catford is lost, take away the 126 and the link to Bromley is lost. The 124 is restricted to small buses hence my suggestion of replacing it with the 284. Yeah it is a tricky one. I would be 99.9% sure that more people from Mottingham need to get to Bromley than they do Catford as there is so much retail there and it is closer. What isn't needed is two Eltham to Grove Park via Mottingham and Coldharbour parallel routes. One idea is for the 124 to use Grove Park Road instead of Dunkery Road, which at the moment is only used by the 638. Once it reaches Mottingham/Prince Of Wales it could go down to Chislehurst replacing that section of the 161 perhaps? If not perhaps round to New Eltham via Sidcup Road/A20 where it could do the same loop the B13 does? |
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Post by vjaska on Feb 9, 2018 13:18:43 GMT
They would but a lot of people use the 126 from Mottingham to get to Bromley for work and leisure. It's difficult to see how both the 124 and 126 can be justified. Take away the 124 and the link to Catford is lost, take away the 126 and the link to Bromley is lost. The 124 is restricted to small buses hence my suggestion of replacing it with the 284. Both routes seem to load well currently whenever I’m down that way which isn’t even during the peaks so can’t see the justification of removing either route. |
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Post by sid on Feb 9, 2018 15:17:17 GMT
It's difficult to see how both the 124 and 126 can be justified. Take away the 124 and the link to Catford is lost, take away the 126 and the link to Bromley is lost. The 124 is restricted to small buses hence my suggestion of replacing it with the 284. Both routes seem to load well currently whenever I’m down that way which isn’t even during the peaks so can’t see the justification of removing either route. There really is no need for a bus every 5 minutes between Grove Park and Eltham, a double decker every 10 minutes would be quite adequate. There's also the 161 and 273. |
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Post by bengady3 on Feb 9, 2018 19:00:06 GMT
Some more ideas for the same area. 124 Withdrawn Grove Park to Eltham. See 284. 126 Withdrawn completely. 181 Withdrawn Downham to Grove Park, pretty dead section. 199 Extended to Bromley using current 126 stand. 284 Withdrawn from Grove Park Cemetery and rerouted via 124 to Eltham. Rerouted between Catford and Lewisham direct via Rushey Green serving Lewisham hospital. Converted to double decker. 320 Withdrawn Bromley to Catford, rerouted to Grove Park Cemetery as part replacement for 126. 380 Extended via current 284 route to Catford, 320 stand or TL. The 124 could do with a re-routing via Grove Park Road. The 126 is quite busy at all times and provides the only direct link between Bromley and Mottingham. The 181 helps the 136 between Downham and Grove Park expecially during school times. The 199 idea is good, I believe there was an actual proposal for it to be extended instead of the 320. The 284 idea could work but I'm not really sure about the 380 |
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Post by vjaska on Feb 9, 2018 19:09:15 GMT
Both routes seem to load well currently whenever I’m down that way which isn’t even during the peaks so can’t see the justification of removing either route. There really is no need for a bus every 5 minutes between Grove Park and Eltham, a double decker every 10 minutes would be quite adequate. There's also the 161 and 273. Then cut the frequency a little rather than wholesale change - from my own observations, both routes load well but as I’m not from that area, I don’t see them regularly enough. The 161 doesn’t serve Grove Park & 273 doesn’t serve Eltham so not sure what relevance they have in this discussion. Funnily enough, I’m sure it was yourself a while ago who also said that the Lewisham to Catford corridor was overbussed and you liked the post from yesterday regarding the claim about it being overbussed yet interestingly, your 284 proposal actually adds an extra route along there. So I’m a little confused about your position there? |
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Post by sid on Feb 9, 2018 19:23:02 GMT
Some more ideas for the same area. 124 Withdrawn Grove Park to Eltham. See 284. 126 Withdrawn completely. 181 Withdrawn Downham to Grove Park, pretty dead section. 199 Extended to Bromley using current 126 stand. 284 Withdrawn from Grove Park Cemetery and rerouted via 124 to Eltham. Rerouted between Catford and Lewisham direct via Rushey Green serving Lewisham hospital. Converted to double decker. 320 Withdrawn Bromley to Catford, rerouted to Grove Park Cemetery as part replacement for 126. 380 Extended via current 284 route to Catford, 320 stand or TL. The 124 could do with a re-routing via Grove Park Road. The 126 is quite busy at all times and provides the only direct link between Bromley and Mottingham. The 181 helps the 136 between Downham and Grove Park expecially during school times. The 199 idea is good, I believe there was an actual proposal for it to be extended instead of the 320. The 284 idea could work but I'm not really sure about the 380 The 126 used to go via Grove Park Road until it was decided that it no longer needed a bus service and Dunkery Road has been a bit overbussed ever since. An alternative to the 380 would be extending the 336 to Lewisham but the frequency is lower and the buses smaller. |
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Post by sid on Feb 9, 2018 19:28:20 GMT
There really is no need for a bus every 5 minutes between Grove Park and Eltham, a double decker every 10 minutes would be quite adequate. There's also the 161 and 273. Then cut the frequency a little rather than wholesale change - from my own observations, both routes load well but as I’m not from that area, I don’t see them regularly enough. The 161 doesn’t serve Grove Park & 273 doesn’t serve Eltham so not sure what relevance they have in this discussion. Funnily enough, I’m sure it was yourself a while ago who also said that the Lewisham to Catford corridor was overbussed and you liked the post from yesterday regarding the claim about it being overbussed yet interestingly, your 284 proposal actually adds an extra route along there. So I’m a little confused about your position there? But you reduce frequencies then busier sections of the route are left with an inadequate service. The 161 obviously goes from the Mottingham Rd/Dunkery Rd junction to Eltham and the 273 from the same point to Grove Park. Yes the Lewisham to Catford section probably is overbussed but rerouting the 284 gives Downham a more direct link to Lewisham with the added bonus of serving the hospital and allows double deckers to be used. |
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Post by vjaska on Feb 9, 2018 21:04:25 GMT
Then cut the frequency a little rather than wholesale change - from my own observations, both routes load well but as I’m not from that area, I don’t see them regularly enough. The 161 doesn’t serve Grove Park & 273 doesn’t serve Eltham so not sure what relevance they have in this discussion. Funnily enough, I’m sure it was yourself a while ago who also said that the Lewisham to Catford corridor was overbussed and you liked the post from yesterday regarding the claim about it being overbussed yet interestingly, your 284 proposal actually adds an extra route along there. So I’m a little confused about your position there? But you reduce frequencies then busier sections of the route are left with an inadequate service. The 161 obviously goes from the Mottingham Rd/Dunkery Rd junction to Eltham and the 273 from the same point to Grove Park. Yes the Lewisham to Catford section probably is overbussed but rerouting the 284 gives Downham a more direct link to Lewisham with the added bonus of serving the hospital and allows double deckers to be used. I’m aware where the 161 & 273 go having rode both routes on numerous occasions but your point was about a 5 minute frequency between Eltham & Grove Park - both routes only serve one of those places and run off in different directions so they aren’t relevant to the discussion. I don’t believe the Catford & Lewisham is overbussed given the bus routes along there are regularly very busy but I don’t see why Downham needs another link given the 136 already directly links Downham to Lewisham via the hospital with double deckers. |
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Post by john on Feb 9, 2018 21:06:56 GMT
Well, might aswell have a little look at services within Havering and see what happens from this 😂😂
5 - I would possibly introduce short workings in the shape of Canning Town - Becontree Heath / Romford Market. Keep the headway as is until Becontree Heath and then every 12 to Romford. I'm sure that could save 2/3 buses and still maintain a link to Queens. Would help reduce the overload of buses along Rush Green Road.
66 - remain as is
86 - I would actually leave it as is. Maybe an evening reduction in frequency to every 12 minutes, maybe every 15 though this is purely based on the Romford end. Probably needs the higher levels throughout the route.
103 - frequencies dropped to every 12 during the day, and every 30 at evenings. Retain the 20 minute frequency on Sunday shopping hours.
128 - leave as is
165 - late evening services to run every 30 minutes from 23:00. Diverted at Romford Market to run to Collier Row. Re-routed in Hornchurch to eliminate double run working and run via either Suttons Lane or Appleton Way in both directions. Upgraded to double deck operation
174 - peak level increase to every 6 minutes. Off peak reduced to every 10 minutes. Sunday shopping hours to every 12 minutes. Evening service to every 15 minutes 20:00 to 22:00, then every 20 minutes until close of service.
175 - every 15 minutes, every 20 evenings. Evening service along Heathway to be co-ordinated with the 174 northbound and from Romford southbound.
193 - slightly bigger vehicles allocated (literally the next size up). Frequency reduced to every 12 minutes daytime.
247 - evening service reduced to every 30 minutes from 22:00
248 - daytime frequency dropped to every 10 - 12 minutes, Sunday and evenings to every 20 minutes
252 - frequencies to remain as are. First bus to start later, last buses to finish earlier.
256 - evening frequencies to every 30 minutes all week. Additional school bus workings from Hornchurch in pm.
287 - late evening frequencies reduced to every 30 minutes.
294 - reduced to every 15 daytime, 30 evenings. Sundays remain every 20 with re-routing as circular service around Havering Park with route 365 withdrawn.
296 - leave as is. Weekend night service withdrawn
346 - remain as is
347 withdrawn between Upminster and Ockendon and between Romford and Harold Wood. Extended at Harold Wood to run via proposed route 497 at proposed frequencies
365 - withdrawn.
370 - remain as is
372 - withdrawn between Cherry Tree Lane and Hornchurch. Diverted to Romford, Queens Hospital via Rainham Road, Upper Rainham Road and Roneo Corner.
375 - withdrawn
496 - peak service remains at every 15, all other times to operate every 20 minutes. Evening service every 30 minutes.
498 - left as is
499 - left as is
All school routes to remain as currently
N15 - alternating workings. Route to operate Trafalger Square - Barking/Romford Market
N86 - operate as is. Last departures from Stratford to run as far as Romford Station only
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Post by sid on Feb 9, 2018 21:47:38 GMT
But you reduce frequencies then busier sections of the route are left with an inadequate service. The 161 obviously goes from the Mottingham Rd/Dunkery Rd junction to Eltham and the 273 from the same point to Grove Park. Yes the Lewisham to Catford section probably is overbussed but rerouting the 284 gives Downham a more direct link to Lewisham with the added bonus of serving the hospital and allows double deckers to be used. I’m aware where the 161 & 273 go having rode both routes on numerous occasions but your point was about a 5 minute frequency between Eltham & Grove Park - both routes only serve one of those places and run off in different directions so they aren’t relevant to the discussion. I don’t believe the Catford & Lewisham is overbussed given the bus routes along there are regularly very busy but I don’t see why Downham needs another link given the 136 already directly links Downham to Lewisham via the hospital with double deckers. The combined 124 and 126 provide a 5 min frequency (ie 12 bph) between Grove Park and Eltham, the 161/273 are additional to that. The 136 serves a different part of Downham. The 284 already goes to Lewisham, what I've suggested is a more direct route. |
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Post by RandomBusesGirl on Feb 9, 2018 23:04:09 GMT
Well, might aswell have a little look at services within Havering and see what happens from this 😂😂 296 - leave as is. Weekend night service withdrawn Actually, based on patronage levels, this one like in the either top 5 or 8 most used weekend routes, so not the best call! I would also double-deck it, and get rid of 396 - could instead introduce a double run via the hospital - it's a hospital so ought to get away with that |
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