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Post by galwhv69 on Jan 25, 2018 23:04:48 GMT
ive never even had a 417 go double that time (edit:mean 8 minutes not 12) also,was it an lt that held the record? It's N137s I'm talking about, though I suppose few first 417s of the day fare similarly. And what LT? N137 doesn't run with them. Never had one do the route. They can't do the turns at Westow Hill, failed the route test. Shame, that. N137 uses Ts, and also made use of VLAs till the Green Corridor kicked in. HVs are still fairly uncommon. thought the n137 had the same allocation as 137 but oh well we learn something new every day |
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Post by vjaska on Jan 25, 2018 23:44:57 GMT
ive never even had a 417 go double that time (edit:mean 8 minutes not 12) also,was it an lt that held the record? It's N137s I'm talking about, though I suppose few first 417s of the day fare similarly. And what LT? N137 doesn't run with them. Never had one do the route. They can't do the turns at Westow Hill, failed the route test. Shame, that. N137 uses Ts, and also made use of VLAs till the Green Corridor kicked in. HVs are still fairly uncommon. Do the last two VLA's at N (VLA56-7) still go out on the night routes or are they now just restricted to the 690? |
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Post by vjaska on Jan 25, 2018 23:46:23 GMT
It's N137s I'm talking about, though I suppose few first 417s of the day fare similarly. And what LT? N137 doesn't run with them. Never had one do the route. They can't do the turns at Westow Hill, failed the route test. Shame, that. N137 uses Ts, and also made use of VLAs till the Green Corridor kicked in. HVs are still fairly uncommon. thought the n137 had the same allocation as 137 but oh well we learn something new every day Nope, the N137 has always been based at N under Arriva whilst the 137 was always a BN route until recently when it became a N & BN route  |
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Post by vjaska on Jan 25, 2018 23:55:26 GMT
The 417 to Elmers End would only work if you can fix its unreliability - despite its relatively short length, it suffers from busy loadings & traffic in particular parts of the route. I’d rather see the 417’s reliability sorted and then extended to Clapham Junction to give assistance to the 35 & 37. Well 417's reliability could only be fixed if all that traffic was ousted from Crystal Palace town centre  It's ridiculous how many cars are there. Why would you go through there if you know you will sit in traffic? -_- All bus drivers are open to letting people off before they reach the Westow Hill bus stop, it's that notorious. It's even busy at 7pm! N137 from Streatham Hill to CP meanwhile can take merely 8 minutes! It's not the only spot to fix - Leigham Court Road southbound leading up to the junction with Valley Road/Knollys Road snarls up regularly with traffic going back nearly as far as Streatham Hill Station whilst the right hand lane on Streatham Place can be busy at times. Crystal Palace Town Centre is a tough place to fix though - Church Road, Westow Hill & Westow Street used to all be two way with no buses using Westow Street at all but it created many problems especially as there were many parked cars along Church Road & Westow Hill which probably prompted Croydon Council (& Lambeth as half of Westow Hill used to be Lambeth controlled along with Central Hill, Crown Dale & Crown Lane but Croydon now has Central Hill & Westow Hill all to itself) to turn it all one way as well as remove the roundabout at the Anerley Hill/Westow Hill/Church Road/Crystal Palace Park Parade junction. On a slightly different point, the removal of the roundabout gave a tiny time saving to the 3 as before that, buses were not allowed to turn right out of the bus station in those days so the 3 had to turn towards Dulwich using the roundabout. The 227's were standing with the 122, 202 & 363 in those days so wasn't affected |
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Post by paulsw2 on Jan 26, 2018 1:55:00 GMT
thought the n137 had the same allocation as 137 but oh well we learn something new every day Nope, the N137 has always been based at N under Arriva whilst the 137 was always a BN route until recently when it became a N & BN route N137 was originally worked by London Central from Q |
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Post by vjaska on Jan 26, 2018 2:12:28 GMT
Nope, the N137 has always been based at N under Arriva whilst the 137 was always a BN route until recently when it became a N & BN route N137 was originally worked by London Central from Q Apologies, should of made it clearer that when I referred to always at N, I meant whilst under Arriva as I knew the N137 was under London Central from Q for 3 years before going to Arriva as it was allocated AVL's during it's stint at Q |
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Post by galwhv69 on Jan 26, 2018 8:19:47 GMT
N137 was originally worked by London Central from Q Apologies, should of made it clearer that when I referred to always at N, I meant whilst under Arriva as I knew the N137 was under London Central from Q for 3 years before going to Arriva as it was allocated AVL's during it's stint at Q when did the last go ahead avl leave london? |
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Post by RandomBusesGirl on Jan 26, 2018 14:47:02 GMT
It's N137s I'm talking about, though I suppose few first 417s of the day fare similarly. And what LT? N137 doesn't run with them. Never had one do the route. They can't do the turns at Westow Hill, failed the route test. Shame, that. N137 uses Ts, and also made use of VLAs till the Green Corridor kicked in. HVs are still fairly uncommon. Do the last two VLA's at N (VLA56-7) still go out on the night routes or are they now just restricted to the 690? 690 only. The green zone also applies at night  (yet 690 crosses it, but...) Weird not to hear their roars anymore - now 250's Ts and any whooshy E40Hs are the loudest buses |
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Post by capitalomnibus on Jan 26, 2018 17:06:15 GMT
259 wouldn't happen unless 279 is extended, a lot of people use the bus between Tottenham/ Seven Sisters Rd to Finsbury Park, Holloway and Caledonian Rd. Especially in the mornings when the tube isn't running it is packed. Just start the 279 peak service earlier in the morning. Rerouting the 259 is instead of withdrawing the 349 which some people on here claim is essential even though it's usually carrying little more than fresh air when I see it. lol, what would that do, the standard 279/N279 is running at that time. They usually go down full. I agree 349 isn't as busy its best scrapped with extending the 259 or 144 in its place. |
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Post by sid on Jan 26, 2018 17:12:49 GMT
Just start the 279 peak service earlier in the morning. Rerouting the 259 is instead of withdrawing the 349 which some people on here claim is essential even though it's usually carrying little more than fresh air when I see it. lol, what would that do, the standard 279/N279 is running at that time. They usually go down full. I agree 349 isn't as busy its best scrapped with extending the 259 or 144 in its place. Ok we'll axe the 349 like I suggested in the first place, surely the 149,259 and 279 are enough between Tottenham and Edmonton Green? I suspect somebody will be outraged though! |
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Post by busaholic on Jan 27, 2018 22:01:01 GMT
It's not the only spot to fix - Leigham Court Road southbound leading up to the junction with Valley Road/Knollys Road snarls up regularly with traffic going back nearly as far as Streatham Hill Station whilst the right hand lane on Streatham Place can be busy at times. Crystal Palace Town Centre is a tough place to fix though - Church Road, Westow Hill & Westow Street used to all be two way with no buses using Westow Street at all but it created many problems especially as there were many parked cars along Church Road & Westow Hill which probably prompted Croydon Council (& Lambeth as half of Westow Hill used to be Lambeth controlled along with Central Hill, Crown Dale & Crown Lane but Croydon now has Central Hill & Westow Hill all to itself) to turn it all one way as well as remove the roundabout at the Anerley Hill/Westow Hill/Church Road/Crystal Palace Park Parade junction. On a slightly different point, the removal of the roundabout gave a tiny time saving to the 3 as before that, buses were not allowed to turn right out of the bus station in those days so the 3 had to turn towards Dulwich using the roundabout. The 227's were standing with the 122, 202 & 363 in those days so wasn't affected Is the 417 so unreliable? I ask because I saw/heard rather too many of them while recuperating at my sister's back last May, which involved lying in or on a bed for most of a fortnight, feet away from a Leigham Court Road bus stop, with only a large fence between my bedroom and the stop; nevertheless, I saw the top of every bus that stopped there in that time when I wasn't sleeping, and I don't remember either long gaps or bunching. The 417 has always been Arriva's too, from Norwood, which doesn't suggest TfL has found too much fault with their operation.
As an aside, a curious passenger travelling from Crystal Palace might think that every other passenger is now trying to get to Clapham Common! Sixty years ago, when I was spending several hours a month on Crystal Palace Parade observing the buses and their routes you might just get an offpeak 137 destined for the Old Town, but that was about it (plenty of terminators there on the 137, but almost all from the Oxford Circus/ Archway direction, even Norwood vehicles).
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Post by DE20106 on Jan 27, 2018 22:15:57 GMT
I have an idea of some routes that I think are incredibly over-resourced and a trim down wouldn’t go amiss, basically I’ve compared usage data with PVR.
390 - Has a PVR of 30 but only carried 5.1 million people last year. Obviously not a quiet route but it’s hardly in the medals.
113 - Has a PVR of 28 but only carries 4.7 million people last year, seems a bit excessive to me
38 - This could be controversial. I know usage wise it’s a hugely busy route but I only ever see the buses running round empty! Probably because it’s so frequent you get people very spread out over the buses.
56 - I’m quite shocked it has a frequency of every 8 minutes on a Sunday. There are far busier routes with smaller frequencies than that.
388 - I think would cope perfectly fine if the frequency was trimmed down a bit.
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Post by snoggle on Jan 27, 2018 22:57:55 GMT
I have an idea of some routes that I think are incredibly over-resourced and a trim down wouldn’t go amiss, basically I’ve compared usage data with PVR. 390 - Has a PVR of 30 but only carried 5.1 million people last year. Obviously not a quiet route but it’s hardly in the medals. 113 - Has a PVR of 28 but only carries 4.7 million people last year, seems a bit excessive to me 38 - This could be controversial. I know usage wise it’s a hugely busy route but I only ever see the buses running round empty! Probably because it’s so frequent you get people very spread out over the buses. 56 - I’m quite shocked it has a frequency of every 8 minutes on a Sunday. There are far busier routes with smaller frequencies than that. 388 - I think would cope perfectly fine if the frequency was trimmed down a bit. Well, you get stupid resource levels on the 390 when you destroy sensible routes like the 73! There's no justification at the north end of the 390 for its now quite ridiculous frequency but TfL are clearly not going to change it in the near future because of the need to maintain the Z1 link to Victoria. Problem with the 113 is that it is immensely long which pulls up the PVR. I'd want to see if the recent frequency uplift has had any generative effect given there has been development north of Brent Cross. Pulling buses off the Finchley Road would be hugely controversial given it remains in a political spotlight. The 38 is getting more cuts shortly. I suspect it needs more radical surgery but that will have to wait for a wider revision of Z1 / Islington routes which I suspect will come in due course. I'd prefer you not to faff with the 56 - it's the only non NB4L route I can use through parts of Hackney from Leyton. We've debated the 388 a lot recently. Can't say I'm bothered one way or the other. The main issue seems to be reliability based on others' remarks. |
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Post by redexpress on Jan 28, 2018 2:54:08 GMT
I have an idea of some routes that I think are incredibly over-resourced and a trim down wouldn’t go amiss, basically I’ve compared usage data with PVR. 390 - Has a PVR of 30 but only carried 5.1 million people last year. Obviously not a quiet route but it’s hardly in the medals. 113 - Has a PVR of 28 but only carries 4.7 million people last year, seems a bit excessive to me 38 - This could be controversial. I know usage wise it’s a hugely busy route but I only ever see the buses running round empty! Probably because it’s so frequent you get people very spread out over the buses. 56 - I’m quite shocked it has a frequency of every 8 minutes on a Sunday. There are far busier routes with smaller frequencies than that. 388 - I think would cope perfectly fine if the frequency was trimmed down a bit. Worth remembering that the 113 and 390 have not had a full year of their new routeings yet, so those passenger loading figures won't accurately reflect the current level of demand. The forthcoming butchering of the 10 might boost the 390's numbers a bit, although will probably be outweighed by TCR works, Oxford Street pedestrianisation and HS2 works all combining to mess up the route over the next few years. I don't think it's particularly controversial to suggest a cut to the 38! I've lost track of how many cuts it's had since it was converted back to DD with a ridiculously generous level of resource. As snoggle has pointed out, it is getting yet another cut, but I doubt you'll hear many complaints about that one. |
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Post by vjaska on Jan 28, 2018 3:38:01 GMT
It's not the only spot to fix - Leigham Court Road southbound leading up to the junction with Valley Road/Knollys Road snarls up regularly with traffic going back nearly as far as Streatham Hill Station whilst the right hand lane on Streatham Place can be busy at times. Crystal Palace Town Centre is a tough place to fix though - Church Road, Westow Hill & Westow Street used to all be two way with no buses using Westow Street at all but it created many problems especially as there were many parked cars along Church Road & Westow Hill which probably prompted Croydon Council (& Lambeth as half of Westow Hill used to be Lambeth controlled along with Central Hill, Crown Dale & Crown Lane but Croydon now has Central Hill & Westow Hill all to itself) to turn it all one way as well as remove the roundabout at the Anerley Hill/Westow Hill/Church Road/Crystal Palace Park Parade junction. On a slightly different point, the removal of the roundabout gave a tiny time saving to the 3 as before that, buses were not allowed to turn right out of the bus station in those days so the 3 had to turn towards Dulwich using the roundabout. The 227's were standing with the 122, 202 & 363 in those days so wasn't affected Is the 417 so unreliable? I ask because I saw/heard rather too many of them while recuperating at my sister's back last May, which involved lying in or on a bed for most of a fortnight, feet away from a Leigham Court Road bus stop, with only a large fence between my bedroom and the stop; nevertheless, I saw the top of every bus that stopped there in that time when I wasn't sleeping, and I don't remember either long gaps or bunching. The 417 has always been Arriva's too, from Norwood, which doesn't suggest TfL has found too much fault with their operation.
As an aside, a curious passenger travelling from Crystal Palace might think that every other passenger is now trying to get to Clapham Common! Sixty years ago, when I was spending several hours a month on Crystal Palace Parade observing the buses and their routes you might just get an offpeak 137 destined for the Old Town, but that was about it (plenty of terminators there on the 137, but almost all from the Oxford Circus/ Archway direction, even Norwood vehicles).
Yeah, over the years of using it since it's renumbering (I used the 137A only a couple of times), it's been very up & down and I've had to endure many long waits for buses going in both directions. When I was visiting my nan in 2016 on Leigham Court Road, I'd rather walk down St. Julian's Farm Road to Norwood Garage than chance the 417 as I knew that I'd have no problem getting a 2 or 432 home plus I didn't need to change buses either. I'm not sure what the 417's actual figures for reliability are (no doubt it will probably have good figures) but from my own experiences, it's more often than not been a bad experience which I never got on other N routes I used regularly over the years like the 2, 133, 249, 415 & 432 |
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(yet 690 crosses it, but...)
