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Post by southlondonbus on Aug 10, 2018 10:58:43 GMT
Does it actually employ conductors or are they drivers that man the platform alternating?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2018 17:05:43 GMT
Routes 23 and 228- Given the inevitability of there being changes to the 23 in its current form, I can see the 228 being rerouted to take over the route between Kilburn Lane and Westbourne Park via Kensal Road, Golborne Road and Elkstone Road as I think it'd find more use along this section instead of Harrow Road. If I recall correctly the 452 was originally proposed to take over this section, but I think it's safe to say that plan has been shelved. I can see the 6 being diverted at Hyde Park Corner along route 414 to Putney Bridge which would be the end of the 414. Of course the 414 could be extended to Willesden or beyond after all Willesden is only approx 12 minutes beyond Media Hill. While I think that would be a reasonable diversion and would probably give the 6 more purpose, I'm doubtful that this route change would actually happen. What's more likely to happen is the 414 being either being rerouted northbound beyond Hyde Park Corner or simply reverting to its original terminus Maida Vale when the proposal to divert 332 via Kilburn Park Road, Shirland Road and Warwick Avenue is put into place. I guess I’ll start it off with stuff recycled from what I’ve said previously: 391 at risk:- TfL consultation about the 27 claiming that even after withdrawal, the Chiswick High Road would still be overbussed - Proposed chopping of 391 east of Hammersmith and frequency reduction - Linear running to the District line - Proposed 440 change which will leave Power Road stand available for another route from the west Routes 28, 31 and 328:- Although I’ve previously noted others claim the routes all have something to offer, I think at least one of these would be subject to alteration going by the current climate. All depends, I think, on whether TfL see these as useful enough given improvements to SSR on the Paddington to Kensington stretch. If patronage numbers fall I genuinely believe they could revert the 28 and 31 back to their old routes. I agree about the 28 and 31 reverting to their former routes with the 28 curtailed at West Hampstead as the 139 now covers the Golders Green section. A small but useful extension would be from Chelsea Worlds End to Battersea Bridge south side for connections to the 49,319 etc. I also agree about the 28 and 31 reverting to their former routes, but I am less convinced about the 28 being curtailed at West Hampstead. Golders Green is not much farther on and the 328 carries far more passengers over this section than the 139. The bus stand at West Hampstead may also be too small to hold two G3s. Wasn't stand space partially why the 139 was extended to Golders Green in the first place? Anyway, I also agree that the 328 could be withdrawn and 28 and 31 will revert to their original routes. I actually could see the 31 getting a small extension beyond Worlds End/Limerson Street to Battersea Bridge as I think the former terminus is a bit obsolete.
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Post by vjaska on Aug 10, 2018 17:47:27 GMT
Routes 23 and 228- Given the inevitability of there being changes to the 23 in its current form, I can see the 228 being rerouted to take over the route between Kilburn Lane and Westbourne Park via Kensal Road, Golborne Road and Elkstone Road as I think it'd find more use along this section instead of Harrow Road. If I recall correctly the 452 was originally proposed to take over this section, but I think it's safe to say that plan has been shelved. I can see the 6 being diverted at Hyde Park Corner along route 414 to Putney Bridge which would be the end of the 414. Of course the 414 could be extended to Willesden or beyond after all Willesden is only approx 12 minutes beyond Media Hill. While I think that would be a reasonable diversion and would probably give the 6 more purpose, I'm doubtful that this route change would actually happen. What's more likely to happen is the 414 being either being rerouted northbound beyond Hyde Park Corner or simply reverting to its original terminus Maida Vale when the proposal to divert 332 via Kilburn Park Road, Shirland Road and Warwick Avenue is put into place. I also agree about the 28 and 31 reverting to their former routes, but I am less convinced about the 28 being curtailed at West Hampstead. Golders Green is not much farther on and the 328 carries far more passengers over this section than the 139. The bus stand at West Hampstead may also be too small to hold two G3s. Wasn't stand space partially why the 139 was extended to Golders Green in the first place? Anyway, I also agree that the 328 could be withdrawn and 28 and 31 will revert to their original routes. I actually could see the 31 getting a small extension beyond Worlds End/Limerson Street to Battersea Bridge as I think the former terminus is a bit obsolete. The reason for the 139 being extended was to retain a link to the West End from Golders Green. As for withdrawing the 328, I think that's absolutely the wrong thing to do and would put extra pressure onto the 28 & 31 - even if the 31 was reverted over the 328, extending it further would cause serious reliability issues as it passes through a number of traffic hotspots. |
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Post by ian on Aug 10, 2018 18:03:04 GMT
Is there scope for savings along the Edgware Road e.g. merging 16 & 32 in some way and/or perhaps some of the other variants?
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Post by ronnie on Aug 10, 2018 18:04:12 GMT
Post today’s announcements, I can expect the new 23 and 7 to disappear a couple of years down the line
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Post by redbus on Aug 10, 2018 18:11:37 GMT
That's been my experience too although I'd question why it costs so much to operate? Would bids from the sightseeing operators be considered I wonder? They might be able to operate it cheaper as it's very much a non standard TfL route. I've often thought the route would be more interesting with guest appearances from other preserved buses although unlikely in the current climate. Guest appearances did happen occasionally in the Hendy days, but they're like ancient history now! Probably the 15H's only chance of survival is to take it out of TfL's hands one way or another. Calculations will no doubt be made about the 15H. In all this don't forget that in terms of the cuts that have been mandated, it is a mere pinprick, in terms of cost savings a rounding error. That's not to say the savings may not be useful, but hardly critical, you are unlikely to see improvements elsewhere as a result of axing the 15H. The fate if the 15H I reckon has little to do with cost - at least at this point - but everything to do with politics. It was a political endeavour in it's creation, and it will be a political endeavour to axe it. |
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Post by redbus on Aug 10, 2018 18:16:48 GMT
Routes 23 and 228- Given the inevitability of there being changes to the 23 in its current form, I can see the 228 being rerouted to take over the route between Kilburn Lane and Westbourne Park via Kensal Road, Golborne Road and Elkstone Road as I think it'd find more use along this section instead of Harrow Road. If I recall correctly the 452 was originally proposed to take over this section, but I think it's safe to say that plan has been shelved. While I think that would be a reasonable diversion and would probably give the 6 more purpose, I'm doubtful that this route change would actually happen. What's more likely to happen is the 414 being either being rerouted northbound beyond Hyde Park Corner or simply reverting to its original terminus Maida Vale when the proposal to divert 332 via Kilburn Park Road, Shirland Road and Warwick Avenue is put into place. Wasn't stand space partially why the 139 was extended to Golders Green in the first place? Anyway, I also agree that the 328 could be withdrawn and 28 and 31 will revert to their original routes. I actually could see the 31 getting a small extension beyond Worlds End/Limerson Street to Battersea Bridge as I think the former terminus is a bit obsolete. The reason for the 139 being extended was to retain a link to the West End from Golders Green. As for withdrawing the 328, I think that's absolutely the wrong thing to do and would put extra pressure onto the 28 & 31 - even if the 31 was reverted over the 328, extending it further would cause serious reliability issues as it passes through a number of traffic hotspots. Agreed about the 139
Yes, withdrawing the 328 and reverting to the original 28 and 31 would put additional pressure on the 28 and 31, but the argument is that this is better than the frequency reductions we have seen, particularly on the 31. This way by removing the 328, the reduction in service would be concentrated in the section that many argue is over bussed, while the 28 and 31 can revert to their old frequencies.
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Post by rmz19 on Aug 10, 2018 18:17:53 GMT
Routes 23 and 228- Given the inevitability of there being changes to the 23 in its current form, I can see the 228 being rerouted to take over the route between Kilburn Lane and Westbourne Park via Kensal Road, Golborne Road and Elkstone Road as I think it'd find more use along this section instead of Harrow Road. If I recall correctly the 452 was originally proposed to take over this section, but I think it's safe to say that plan has been shelved. While I think that would be a reasonable diversion and would probably give the 6 more purpose, I'm doubtful that this route change would actually happen. What's more likely to happen is the 414 being either being rerouted northbound beyond Hyde Park Corner or simply reverting to its original terminus Maida Vale when the proposal to divert 332 via Kilburn Park Road, Shirland Road and Warwick Avenue is put into place. Wasn't stand space partially why the 139 was extended to Golders Green in the first place? Anyway, I also agree that the 328 could be withdrawn and 28 and 31 will revert to their original routes. I actually could see the 31 getting a small extension beyond Worlds End/Limerson Street to Battersea Bridge as I think the former terminus is a bit obsolete. The reason for the 139 being extended was to retain a link to the West End from Golders Green. As for withdrawing the 328, I think that's absolutely the wrong thing to do and would put extra pressure onto the 28 & 31 - even if the 31 was reverted over the 328, extending it further would cause serious reliability issues as it passes through a number of traffic hotspots. The OP's post is missing so I'll quote yours instead. I completely agree, once again more unnecessary fiddling with routes that serve their purposes very well. I agree that the 328 should not be touched and remain in its current form, no amount of frequency increases to the 28 and 31 would compensate for removing the 328 as this would lead to excess capacity along their respective routings outside the common section. The 23 could've been extended via the 18 to Stonebridge Park to provide the 18 assitance and introduce new links, unfortunately TFL are making the route useless. Alternatively the 452 could be given this role, though only as far as Willesden Junction to avoid it being too lengthy. The 228 can simply be withdrawn without issue, good riddance I say. As for the 6, "more purpose" really? It would be ridiculous to mess around with it as suggested. The 6 obviously has more than enough purpose, it should be left alone. Though I agree with the OP regarding rerouting the 414 n/b, it could revert to its former terminus or be extended to Camden Town via St. John's Wood Road and the 274. Also I personally wouldn't reroute the 332 via Shirland Road and Warwick Avenue, these areas have enough routes running through them and the 332 would be superfluous. |
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Post by sid on Aug 10, 2018 18:19:56 GMT
Guest appearances did happen occasionally in the Hendy days, but they're like ancient history now! Probably the 15H's only chance of survival is to take it out of TfL's hands one way or another. Calculations will no doubt be made about the 15H. In all this don't forget that in terms of the cuts that have been mandated, it is a mere pinprick, in terms of cost savings a rounding error. That's not to say the savings may not be useful, but hardly critical, you are unlikely to see improvements elsewhere as a result of axing the 15H. The fate if the 15H I reckon has little to do with cost - at least at this point - but everything to do with politics. It was a political endeavour in it's creation, and it will be a political endeavour to axe it. I've always seen the 15H as a vintage service mainly aimed at tourists rather like the vintage trams in Melbourne. It doesn't seem an obvious candidate to be axed to me although if the running costs that were quoted on here recently are correct a few questions might be asked about that. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Aug 10, 2018 18:48:51 GMT
Same as the cable cars in San Francisco. They have had a couple of expensive rebuilds and it's know that the staff are mroe there to protect the passengers then make sure all fares are collected. I know the RM is a bit different but it should almost be protected to receive GLA funding or even government assistance.
The Blackpool tram system is also now operated by new trams but still retains a heritage fleet for the busiest times as many would have thought the network unthinkable without the Balloon trams etc.
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Post by snoggle on Aug 10, 2018 20:52:37 GMT
Is there scope for savings along the Edgware Road e.g. merging 16 & 32 in some way and/or perhaps some of the other variants? Oh yes. Combine the 16 and 332 and turn the 16 at Paddington to give a new merged Paddington to Brent Cross service. Passengers to / from Victoria will have to change to the 36. Combine the 32 and 316 but curtail the 316 at North Kensington and convert to double deck. Given the huge degree of overlap and what we are seeing elsewhere you can take two routes out in one move. Extend the 206 through to White City to replace the 316 section. Curtail the 139 at West Hampstead. Passengers from Golders Green must use the 328. Divert and curtail the 189 at Kilburn Park Station removing the overlap south of Belsize Road. The 189 would still loop off the Edgware Rd to give one interchange point with the 139. Curtail the 414 to South Kensington, convert to single deck and then run on via the 228 to Central Middlesex Hospital. Removes stand requirements at Maida Hill. If any extra resource is needed in Fulham then add to route 14. You will notice a little theme to the above changes.  |
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Post by ADH45258 on Aug 10, 2018 21:00:18 GMT
A suggestion I've made before regarding both the 28/31/328 and Edgware Road corridors:
28 & 328 to remain unchanged.
31 - Diverted between Kilburn Park and Holland Park via route 316 to Ladbroke Grove, then route 228.
228 - Diverted between Ladbroke Grove and Shepherd's Bush via route 316.
316 - Withdrawn
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Post by ronnie on Aug 10, 2018 21:40:01 GMT
Is there scope for savings along the Edgware Road e.g. merging 16 & 32 in some way and/or perhaps some of the other variants? Oh yes. Combine the 16 and 332 and turn the 16 at Paddington to give a new merged Paddington to Brent Cross service. Passengers to / from Victoria will have to change to the 36. Combine the 32 and 316 but curtail the 316 at North Kensington and convert to double deck. Given the huge degree of overlap and what we are seeing elsewhere you can take two routes out in one move. Extend the 206 through to White City to replace the 316 section. Curtail the 139 at West Hampstead. Passengers from Golders Green must use the 328. Divert and curtail the 189 at Kilburn Park Station removing the overlap south of Belsize Road. The 189 would still loop off the Edgware Rd to give one interchange point with the 139. Curtail the 414 to South Kensington, convert to single deck and then run on via the 228 to Central Middlesex Hospital. Removes stand requirements at Maida Hill. If any extra resource is needed in Fulham then add to route 14. You will notice a little theme to the above changes. With your post in the oxford street thread and this, I can see what you are implying with “not looking pretty”. A shame really... time to do s few end-to-ends before routes disappear! Must do a 25-113 some day... |
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Post by redbus on Aug 10, 2018 23:15:32 GMT
Is there scope for savings along the Edgware Road e.g. merging 16 & 32 in some way and/or perhaps some of the other variants? Oh yes. Combine the 16 and 332 and turn the 16 at Paddington to give a new merged Paddington to Brent Cross service. Passengers to / from Victoria will have to change to the 36. Combine the 32 and 316 but curtail the 316 at North Kensington and convert to double deck. Given the huge degree of overlap and what we are seeing elsewhere you can take two routes out in one move. Extend the 206 through to White City to replace the 316 section. Curtail the 139 at West Hampstead. Passengers from Golders Green must use the 328. Divert and curtail the 189 at Kilburn Park Station removing the overlap south of Belsize Road. The 189 would still loop off the Edgware Rd to give one interchange point with the 139. Curtail the 414 to South Kensington, convert to single deck and then run on via the 228 to Central Middlesex Hospital. Removes stand requirements at Maida Hill. If any extra resource is needed in Fulham then add to route 14. You will notice a little theme to the above changes. Interesting. There's no easy interchange between the 16 if diverted to Paddington and the 36. Perhaps re-route the 2 from Marylebone to use Edgware Road instead of Baker Street and get it to meet up with the 16.
Perhaps just combine the 32 and 316 and say it's time for DDs.
I am unsure how the interchange for the 139 and 189 will work. This would completely *())*(^ the poor passengers who today transfer between the 98 and 189 in Kilburn, and there are lots of them. The 139s would struggle to cope on today's patronage. It would be more sensible to keep the 189 going down Abbey Road as far as Church Street, a relatively small but important overlap. The problem would be where to turn the buses around Church Street.
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Post by ADH45258 on Aug 11, 2018 8:35:11 GMT
Oh yes. Combine the 16 and 332 and turn the 16 at Paddington to give a new merged Paddington to Brent Cross service. Passengers to / from Victoria will have to change to the 36. Combine the 32 and 316 but curtail the 316 at North Kensington and convert to double deck. Given the huge degree of overlap and what we are seeing elsewhere you can take two routes out in one move. Extend the 206 through to White City to replace the 316 section. Curtail the 139 at West Hampstead. Passengers from Golders Green must use the 328. Divert and curtail the 189 at Kilburn Park Station removing the overlap south of Belsize Road. The 189 would still loop off the Edgware Rd to give one interchange point with the 139. Curtail the 414 to South Kensington, convert to single deck and then run on via the 228 to Central Middlesex Hospital. Removes stand requirements at Maida Hill. If any extra resource is needed in Fulham then add to route 14. You will notice a little theme to the above changes. Interesting. There's no easy interchange between the 16 if diverted to Paddington and the 36. Perhaps re-route the 2 from Marylebone to use Edgware Road instead of Baker Street and get it to meet up with the 16.
Perhaps just combine the 32 and 316 and say it's time for DDs.
I am unsure how the interchange for the 139 and 189 will work. This would completely *())*(^ the poor passengers who today transfer between the 98 and 189 in Kilburn, and there are lots of them. The 139s would struggle to cope on today's patronage. It would be more sensible to keep the 189 going down Abbey Road as far as Church Street, a relatively small but important overlap. The problem would be where to turn the buses around Church Street.
Could terminate at Marylebone Station? |
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