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Post by sid on Sept 12, 2018 8:23:12 GMT
Would the 333 need to be rerouted via Camberwell? Wouldn't an increased 35 along with the 345 be adequate if the 45 is withdrawn? You'd lose the link from south of Brixton to Kings College Hospital. This way retains it and reduces some duplication elsewhere (I make no comment on whether that is a good thing). Increasing the 35 puts more capacity in the Elephant - Shoreditch section when TfL want to reduce it. I thought the plan was to increase the 35 to compensate for the withdrawal of the 40 across London Bridge? The 35 and 345 would give about 16bph between Camberwell and Brixton which I would have thought was more than adequate? I realise the link to Kings College from south of Brixton is lost but with the best will in the world not everyone can have a direct link. Then again the P4 could be extended to Clapham Park as has been previously suggested and it could possibly be rerouted via Kings College Hospital but obviously Herne Hill Road loses its bus service and journey times are extended. |
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Post by 15002 on Sept 12, 2018 8:57:32 GMT
You'd lose the link from south of Brixton to Kings College Hospital. This way retains it and reduces some duplication elsewhere (I make no comment on whether that is a good thing). Increasing the 35 puts more capacity in the Elephant - Shoreditch section when TfL want to reduce it. I thought the plan was to increase the 35 to compensate for the withdrawal of the 40 across London Bridge? The 35 and 345 would give about 16bph between Camberwell and Brixton which I would have thought was more than adequate? I realise the link to Kings College from south of Brixton is lost but with the best will in the world not everyone can have a direct link. Then again the P4 could be extended to Clapham Park as has been previously suggested and it could possibly be rerouted via Kings College Hospital but obviously Herne Hill Road loses its bus service and journey times are extended. Didn’t TFL want more buses to have access to hospitals? If so, that would essentially just defeat the purpose of linking buses with hospitals by getting rid of the 45. |
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Post by sid on Sept 12, 2018 9:00:22 GMT
I thought the plan was to increase the 35 to compensate for the withdrawal of the 40 across London Bridge? The 35 and 345 would give about 16bph between Camberwell and Brixton which I would have thought was more than adequate? I realise the link to Kings College from south of Brixton is lost but with the best will in the world not everyone can have a direct link. Then again the P4 could be extended to Clapham Park as has been previously suggested and it could possibly be rerouted via Kings College Hospital but obviously Herne Hill Road loses its bus service and journey times are extended. Didn’t TFL want more buses to have access to hospitals? If so, that would essentially just defeat the purpose of linking buses with hospitals by getting rid of the 45. Ideally perhaps but reality is that not everybody can have a direct link to their local hospital especially now that there is hopper fare. Some relatives of mine would find a direct link from Crystal Palace to Kings College Hospital useful but there isn't one and they just have to accept that and change as necessary. |
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Post by danorak on Sept 12, 2018 9:34:16 GMT
Didn’t TFL want more buses to have access to hospitals? If so, that would essentially just defeat the purpose of linking buses with hospitals by getting rid of the 45. Ideally perhaps but reality is that not everybody can have a direct link to their local hospital especially now that there is hopper fare. Some relatives of mine would find a direct link from Crystal Palace to Kings College Hospital useful but there isn't one and they just have to accept that and change as necessary. That is different to breaking links that already exist, hopper or no hopper. A couple of points. Firstly, this is a predictions thread, not a suggestions/fantasy thread. I am simply taking a guess at what TfL may do. My feeling is that breaking an established link to one of South London's major hospitals is something TfL will be very wary about doing, not least because it is disastrous in PR terms and adds a whole extra level of opposition and complication.It may even be the reason the 45 is going to survive in truncated form. Secondly, I am looking at this in 'phase 2' terms so took a reference to increasing the 35 as a further increase. TfL might use such a change as an opportunity to lose one or two of those extra journeys, or perhaps reduce the 333 slightly to minimise any perceived overbussing. We shall see. |
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Post by Lukeo on Sept 12, 2018 10:38:59 GMT
When I went to St Doms, I used to wish the 340 would be extended to South Harrow, with the 258 curtailed to Harrow Bus Station, to provide a bit of extra capacity for the impossible morning commute. It'd be useless off-peak though.
[Edit: probably belongs in the fantasy thread instead as I cannot see this happening!]
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Post by vjaska on Sept 12, 2018 11:19:50 GMT
Ideally perhaps but reality is that not everybody can have a direct link to their local hospital especially now that there is hopper fare. Some relatives of mine would find a direct link from Crystal Palace to Kings College Hospital useful but there isn't one and they just have to accept that and change as necessary. That is different to breaking links that already exist, hopper or no hopper. A couple of points. Firstly, this is a predictions thread, not a suggestions/fantasy thread. I am simply taking a guess at what TfL may do. My feeling is that breaking an established link to one of South London's major hospitals is something TfL will be very wary about doing, not least because it is disastrous in PR terms and adds a whole extra level of opposition and complication.It may even be the reason the 45 is going to survive in truncated form. Secondly, I am looking at this in 'phase 2' terms so took a reference to increasing the 35 as a further increase. TfL might use such a change as an opportunity to lose one or two of those extra journeys, or perhaps reduce the 333 slightly to minimise any perceived overbussing. We shall see. Just to say I appreciate your proposals and feedback although obviously I don't want them to go ahead of course lol. |
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Post by COBO on Sept 12, 2018 20:35:20 GMT
251 - Extended to Turnpike Lane along Route 184. This is due to Route 384 being Extended to Edgware But also meaning London Sovereign would enter an Arriva London dominated area.
326 - Extended to West Hendon, Herbert Road this would provide a new link from West Hendon Via Totteridge and High Barnet to Barnet the Spires. 240 - rerouted via Millbrook Park and the new proposed Mill Hill East Town Centre in both directions. The Route will still serve a repositioned Mill Hill East (Stop B) 83/N83 Extended to Finchley Road, O2 Centre both routes would run along Route 268. this provides a new link from Alperton to Finchley Road which Alperton don’t really have also both day and night Routes will still serve the original Stops in Golders Green. 268 - Curtailed to Swiss Cottage but Extended to Kilburn Park along route 31 this would also release pressure on Route 31. 221 - Extended to Stanmore running along route 142. this would provide a link between the Jubilee, Northern, National Rail and Piccadilly Lines. 183 - Extended to Ruslip Lido (Summertime Only and between certain times, will not serve after 11pm even on the 24Hour weekend service) 340 - Extended to Mill Hill East Town Centre would run along route 221. This would also release pressure on route 221 during School opening and closing hours. 204 - Extended to Alperton Sainsbury’s 79 - Curtailed to Sudbury Town 52 - Extended to Park Royal Asda along Route 260 A very big potential for London United to snap up this route. 302 and 460 - Wright Eclipse Gemini 3 (VWH) permanently introduced Remaining Wright Eclipse Gemini 2 (VWs) Transferred to ON for use on Route 204 Remaining Wright Eclipse Gemini 2 (VWHs) Transferred to EW for use on Route 292. I don’t think that any these will happen. How does a route with single deckers relieve pressure of a double decker route? Why would TfL extend the 251 to Turnpike Lane or 83 to Finchley Road O2? |
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Post by YY13VKP on Sept 12, 2018 21:52:01 GMT
Only just seen this thread, here are my thoughts.
407 - Cut to West Croydon, withdrawn between Sutton and West Croydon and replaced by route 403. PVR reduced to 10
403 - Extended to Sutton Town Centre along the current 407 route, PVR doubled from 7 - 14.
The reason why I came up with this is that for a start, the 407 is a long, highly used single deck route, and often suffers with issues such as overcrowding and curtailments. A route its length is usually a double deck route as it requires more capacity, and as the 403 is rather short between West Croydon and Warlingham and is a double deck route, it would be better to extend this to Sutton, especially if the 407 isn't double decked any time soon. It also suffers less with traffic and has quite a clear run into South Croydon whereas the 407 is always affected by traffic on the Godstone Road and in Croydon, especially in the peak hours which results in buses being curtailed most of the time. The 403 and 407 are similar in the respect that they both run from a village situated on the border between Greater London and Surrey and both serve West Croydon so could quite easily be swapped around.
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Post by sid on Sept 13, 2018 4:31:07 GMT
Only just seen this thread, here are my thoughts. 407 - Cut to West Croydon, withdrawn between Sutton and West Croydon and replaced by route 403. PVR reduced to 10 403 - Extended to Sutton Town Centre along the current 407 route, PVR doubled from 7 - 14. The reason why I came up with this is that for a start, the 407 is a long, highly used single deck route, and often suffers with issues such as overcrowding and curtailments. A route its length is usually a double deck route as it requires more capacity, and as the 403 is rather short between West Croydon and Warlingham and is a double deck route, it would be better to extend this to Sutton, especially if the 407 isn't double decked any time soon. It also suffers less with traffic and has quite a clear run into South Croydon whereas the 407 is always affected by traffic on the Godstone Road and in Croydon, especially in the peak hours which results in buses being curtailed most of the time. The 403 and 407 are similar in the respect that they both run from a village situated on the border between Greater London and Surrey and both serve West Croydon so could quite easily be swapped around. I agree the 407 is far too circuitous, the 403 used to go to Sutton years ago. The 407 could be withdrawn completely if the 312 were to be extended to Caterham, it would almost re-create the old 197 route. |
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Post by COBO on Sept 14, 2018 20:46:49 GMT
Merge the U5 and E6 together.
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Post by sid on Sept 22, 2018 5:41:51 GMT
quote author=" DE20106" source="/post/456289/thread" timestamp="1537571786"]Been looking at the 853 London page to see if there’s been any more doom published, but it did make a post on routes due to be cut getting busier, ie the 53, 171 and 172 all having increased even in line with the new methodology comparing 2016/17 with 2017/18. The reason I post it in this thread though is because of the 53. Since that fateful article last month the website has already published two posts on how stiff the opposition there will be to try and block the 53 changes. The lead councillor for Greenwich is already kicking up a fuss, and the Woolwich and Greenwich MP has already launched a petition against it. TfL will have some battle on their hands and I’m with Greenwich&Woolwich all the way. Interestingly no such fuss on the 171. I love how in the article mentioning routes for the chop getting busier, TfL states that 171 buses in the peak are only half full beyond E&C. Well I’m sorry but half full buses is still busy and I personally disagree, I’ve been at Waterloo in the peaks and seen 171’s bursting, so if there’s gotta be a compromise curtail it there, as I do agree beyond Waterloo to Holborn is very quiet.[/quote] I've taken the liberty of copying this from the Stagecoach thread. Before these changes were announced I suggested cutting the off peak service on either the 68 or 171, there really isn't any need for both of them all the way from Holborn to Camberwell Green outside of peak hours. As for the 53 a compromise might be rerouting it via Victoria Embankment to Whitehall Place with it departing as it does now to serve common stops with the 453 but I don't see much chance of saving it especially if the part closure of Parliament Square for security reasons goes ahead. |
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Post by ADH45258 on Oct 1, 2018 18:54:28 GMT
Some suggestions for changes around Hammersmith, partly in response to Crossrail changes or in anticipation of Hammersmith Bridge works. To make some cuts, while simplifying the network in the area.
9 - Extended from Hammersmith to Chiswick Business Park via existing 27. If LTs can not be accommodated, the 9 could use the 440's stand at Gunnersbury, or terminate at Turnham Green. To retain links towards Kensington.
27 - Cut back to Hammersmith Bus Station. Extended from Camden Town to Parliament Hill Fields via the C2. An alternative to the 88, which could become too long to stay reliable. Hopper fare available for any broken links.
88 - To continue operating between Camden Town and Clapham Common. Diverted via Albany Street.
23 - Diverted between The Design Museum and Hammersmith, via Earl's Court Road, West Cromwell Road and Talgarth Road. To better serve the area around Barons Court. Route 9 would continue links towards Hyde Park Corner.
33 / 295 / 391 / 419 / 430 – Withdrawn.
72 – Converted to DD operation.
74 – Extended from Putney to Roehampton via route 430.
190 – Extended from West Brompton to South Kensington via route 430.
209 – Extended from Hammersmith to Ladbroke Grove via route 295. Extended from Mortlake to Richmond via route 419. Converted to DD operation.
218 – Not introduced
228 – Withdrawn between Maida Hill and Shepherd’s Bush, and instead extended from Shepherd’s Bush to Hammersmith via route 283.
266 – Cut back to Acton High Street as planned.
306 – Introduced with the following changes. Extended from Acton Vale to North Acton via route 266. Extended from Sands End to Clapham Junction via Townmead Road, then route 295.
316 – Diverted between Shepherd’s Bush and Ladbroke Grove via route 228.
337 - Increased frequency.
485 – Diverted between Barnes and Hammersmith via route 419. Increased in frequency.
H22 – Extended from Manor Circus to Turnham Green or Chiswick Park via route 391.
H91 – Re-routed between Hammersmith and Gunnersbury, via Great West Road, Ellesmere Road, Cedars Road and Great West Road. To serve unserved areas around Hammersmith and Chiswick.
R68 – Diverted in the Strawberry Hill area between Cross Deep and Twickenham Road, via Waldegrave Road and Waldegrave Park.
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Post by COBO on Oct 1, 2018 19:07:22 GMT
395: withdrawn between Oldfield Circus and Harrow. Diverted to Northolt via Oldfield Circus, Whitton Avenue West, Pett’s Hill, Northolt Fire Station, Newmarket Avenue, Southwell Avenue, Haydock Avenue, Dabbs Hill Lane, Eastcote Lane, Moat Farm Road, Mandeville Road. To remove the overbussing between Harrow and Northolt. to also make the NIMBYs on The Fairway happy.
6: withdrawn between Piccadilly Circus and Aldwych.
9: Extended to London Bridge.
87: withdrawn between Whitehall and Aldwych,
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Post by ADH45258 on Oct 1, 2018 19:47:12 GMT
395: withdrawn between Oldfield Circus and Harrow. Diverted to Northolt via Oldfield Circus, Whitton Avenue West, Pett’s Hill, Northolt Fire Station, Newmarket Avenue, Southwell Avenue, Haydock Avenue, Dabbs Hill Lane, Eastcote Lane, Moat Farm Road, Mandeville Road. To remove the overbussing between Harrow and Northolt. to also make the NIMBYs on The Fairway happy. 6: withdrawn between Piccadilly Circus and Aldwych. 9: Extended to London Bridge. 87: withdrawn between Whitehall and Aldwych, I would extend the 9 via Fleet Street, New Bridge Street, Blackfriars Station, Blackfriars Bridge, Southwark Street and Borough High Street to London Bridge Station. To improve bus links to Blackfriars Station, and in partial replacement of the RV1. Regarding the 6, I think it should remain to Aldwych, otherwise the 139 will be the only link from Aldwych/Trafalgar Square towards Marble Arch. With the 87, I would instead extend the 87 from Aldwych to Liverpool Street. And extend the 91 from Trafalgar Square to Victoria. Then fully withdraw the shortened 11. I would also not introduce the 311. Instead re-routeing the 19 from Kings Road to Fulham Broadway, and keeping the 22 to Oxford Circus but rerouted via Victoria instead of Knightsbridge. |
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Post by COBO on Oct 1, 2018 20:51:18 GMT
395: withdrawn between Oldfield Circus and Harrow. Diverted to Northolt via Oldfield Circus, Whitton Avenue West, Pett’s Hill, Northolt Fire Station, Newmarket Avenue, Southwell Avenue, Haydock Avenue, Dabbs Hill Lane, Eastcote Lane, Moat Farm Road, Mandeville Road. To remove the overbussing between Harrow and Northolt. to also make the NIMBYs on The Fairway happy. 6: withdrawn between Piccadilly Circus and Aldwych. 9: Extended to London Bridge. 87: withdrawn between Whitehall and Aldwych, I would extend the 9 via Fleet Street, New Bridge Street, Blackfriars Station, Blackfriars Bridge, Southwark Street and Borough High Street to London Bridge Station. To improve bus links to Blackfriars Station, and in partial replacement of the RV1. Regarding the 6, I think it should remain to Aldwych, otherwise the 139 will be the only link from Aldwych/Trafalgar Square towards Marble Arch. With the 87, I would instead extend the 87 from Aldwych to Liverpool Street. And extend the 91 from Trafalgar Square to Victoria. Then fully withdraw the shortened 11. I would also not introduce the 311. Instead re-routeing the 19 from Kings Road to Fulham Broadway, and keeping the 22 to Oxford Circus but rerouted via Victoria instead of Knightsbridge. The problem is the stand at Aldwych my lost. I’m just removing route in case the worst happens. |
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