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Post by busaholic on Jul 19, 2018 21:39:12 GMT
- cross Zone 1 routes to be progressively broken and dismantled. Some route restructuring to create new links or restore old ones lost in recent changes. - some radial to Zone 1 routes to go completely. I can see the 59/159 befalling this with a more intensive shuttle south from Brixton tube (as was done with the 109 years back). Remember the 1970s and 1980s are in vogue again at TfL Towers. Not sure about breaking cross zone 1 routes. It was the 1992 'Catch the Central Changes' that did this that led to the overbussing of Oxford Street. I certainly remember one LBL subsidiary boss commenting on it at the time. I do expect some rationalisation over certain zone 1 corridors so I could envisage more routes that go from zone 2 (as it were) through zone 1 to the other side, with routes feeding into them. The 14/19/22/38/73 NE-SW axis feels ripe for this, and the 73/476 feel likely to be merged in some way. I agree that the 3/59/109 corridor looks a likely candidate for tweaking, with even the 333 getting dragged into it.
I'm going here with an idea I had a year or three ago, since slightly superseded by events, but I'm suggesting those changes are reversed.
My basic idea was to combine the 19 and 22 to run Putney Common to Finsbury Park. At the time, the 22 still terminated at Piccadilly Circus, but I'm proposing the diversion to Oxford Circus be treated as the aberration it was and the much-more-useful currently- emasculated C2 be re-extended to Victoria in its place. The very short section on the 19 over Battersea Bridge not catered for by the 22 extension would still be served by the 319, with an extension to one of Hyde Park Corner, Green Park or Piccadilly Circus. Any 22 passenger making use of the route to get to Oxford Circus would find that the ridiculous and unnecessary cut to the 137 between there and Marble Arch was restored as part of these changes OR, even more radically, the 319 went to Oxford Circus via Park Lane and Oxford Street, thus introducing the first direct link between Kings Road and Oxford Street in my lifetime. Obviously the latter would never happen, as it's far more logical than a route via Berkeley Square to (just about) Oxford Circus.  |
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Post by M1104 on Jul 19, 2018 21:40:12 GMT
If any future changes happen 328 should be extended to Battersea Bridge, that short extension would be key linking Battersea to Earls Court and good for reliability. I like that idea but I reckon it should go that bit further to Battersea Latchmere to provide that bit more of a link, plus there's a bus stand already there that can be used. |
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Post by snoggle on Jul 19, 2018 21:58:35 GMT
Not sure about breaking cross zone 1 routes. It was the 1992 'Catch the Central Changes' that did this that led to the overbussing of Oxford Street. I certainly remember one LBL subsidiary boss commenting on it at the time. I do expect some rationalisation over certain zone 1 corridors so I could envisage more routes that go from zone 2 (as it were) through zone 1 to the other side, with routes feeding into them. The 14/19/22/38/73 NE-SW axis feels ripe for this, and the 73/476 feel likely to be merged in some way. I agree that the 3/59/109 corridor looks a likely candidate for tweaking, with even the 333 getting dragged into it. Interesting reply as that's the one set of changes in the list that I know *is* being looked at. Also confirmed in very loose terms by TfL's reference in Cttee meeting minutes to "a large central area bus consultation" that will affect the scope of TfL's Bus Strategy.  |
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Post by snoggle on Jul 19, 2018 21:59:38 GMT
Since I created this thread I was looking forward to your input. I’m glad you’ve delivered on sensible rationale. Will be interesting to see how many you predicted correctly... should’ve numbered your points to play TfL bingo with lol Probably the only person on the Forum who was!    |
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Post by busaholic on Jul 19, 2018 22:02:34 GMT
Since I created this thread I was looking forward to your input. I’m glad you’ve delivered on sensible rationale. Will be interesting to see how many you predicted correctly... should’ve numbered your points to play TfL bingo with lol Probably the only person on the Forum who was! You're too modest |
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Post by southlondonbus on Jul 19, 2018 22:03:49 GMT
With rumours swilling round about the 20 being cut to Loughton I can see every re tender of a country route getting a proposed withdrawal of the non london section as a threat from TFL to the counties to up their subsidy. This has happened with the 167, 216 166 and 465. The latter 3 served purpose in Surrey and the council saw fit to offer the subsidy required. The 167 on the other hand offered very little that the 20 so I can see why TFL saw fit to cut it but in fairness why ECC didn't see fit to pay for it. Loughton to Debden is already served by the 20 plus many local routes so why would they spend the small resources on it.
I can see the 492 being cut to either Dartford to run fast to Bluewater with Kent CC expected to provide the section between. Maybe even the 405 could face the same chop.
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Post by busaholic on Jul 19, 2018 22:19:58 GMT
- cross Zone 1 routes to be progressively broken and dismantled. Some route restructuring to create new links or restore old ones lost in recent changes. - some radial to Zone 1 routes to go completely. I can see the 59/159 befalling this with a more intensive shuttle south from Brixton tube (as was done with the 109 years back). Remember the 1970s and 1980s are in vogue again at TfL Towers. Not sure about breaking cross zone 1 routes. It was the 1992 'Catch the Central Changes' that did this that led to the overbussing of Oxford Street. I certainly remember one LBL subsidiary boss commenting on it at the time. I do expect some rationalisation over certain zone 1 corridors so I could envisage more routes that go from zone 2 (as it were) through zone 1 to the other side, with routes feeding into them. The 14/19/22/38/73 NE-SW axis feels ripe for this, and the 73/476 feel likely to be merged in some way. I agree that the 3/59/109 corridor looks a likely candidate for tweaking, with even the 333 getting dragged into it. I think you mean the 3/59/159 corridor, which could include the 133? I really fear for the bus network if TfL consider they could eliminate one of the 3 or the 159, or just leave a stub of the 3 from Brixton to Crystal Palace. There is no alleviation likely (or even planned) in rail/tube services in the next decade or more in the wider area, with the Victoria Line only becoming more overcrowded from housing developments in the vicinity of Vauxhall. I'd even countenance the bus operators deciding to operate services of their own volition if this was to take place (and I've been as opposed to that as it's possible to be until now). |
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Post by londonbuses2018 on Jul 19, 2018 23:24:59 GMT
Edgware Road Corridor - Kilburn to Edgware
Route 316 - Extended towards West Hendon no cuts to white city or Route 266 Extended to West Hendon and 316 Extended to Brent Cross
Route 292 - Extended towards Kingsbury
Route 32 - Withdrawn
Route 16 - Extended to Edgware Bus Station and 24 Hour Service introduced no cuts to Victoria (No change to buses nor operation)
Route N16 - Withdrawn
Route 142 - Night Service introduced - (N142 could happen if the Night Overground ever comes to Watford Junction)
Other Changes
Route 125 - Cut to Southgate
Route 382 - Extended to Winchmore Hill
Route 302 - Extended to Ladbroke Grove
Route 295 - Extended to Kensal Rise
Route 183 - Extended to Ruslip Lido (Summer Only)
Route 140 - Extended to Edgware (Cut from Heathrow to Hayes and Harlington (Section replaced by X140)
Route X140 - New Route introduced
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Post by vjaska on Jul 19, 2018 23:46:30 GMT
You haven't answered my question - I'm aware of the links it would provide nor did I ask about the 328's current terminus but I asked how you came to the conclusion that extending it is good for reliability? I've clearly ask your question... I don't get why your being rude it's not that big of a deal it's just people expressing opinions and your very draining If you had clearly answered my question, then you would of gave actual reason as to why extending the 328 supposedly is good for reliability - the answer you gave made absolutely no sense by telling me it links North West London with South West London and that apparently, the Words End section is pointless, none of that has anything to do with being good for reliability. Furthermore, it wasn't rude - I simply asked you nicely for a reply that related to what I asked which you didn't do and the only person being rude is you saying I'm draining when you don't even know me and have hardly ever conversed with me on here before. I have no problem with people expressing opinions but at least make sure what your saying makes sense next time  |
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Post by COBO on Jul 20, 2018 0:05:31 GMT
Edgware Road Corridor - Kilburn to Edgware
Route 316 - Extended towards West Hendon no cuts to white city or Route 266 Extended to West Hendon and 316 Extended to Brent Cross Route 292 - Extended towards Kingsbury Route 32 - Withdrawn Route 16 - Extended to Edgware Bus Station and 24 Hour Service introduced no cuts to Victoria (No change to buses nor operation) Route N16 - Withdrawn Route 142 - Night Service introduced - (N142 could happen if the Night Overground ever comes to Watford Junction) Other Changes
Route 125 - Cut to Southgate Route 382 - Extended to Winchmore Hill Route 302 - Extended to Ladbroke Grove Route 295 - Extended to Kensal Rise Route 183 - Extended to Ruslip Lido (Summer Only) Route 140 - Extended to Edgware (Cut from Heathrow to Hayes and Harlington (Section replaced by X140) Route X140 - New Route introduced I don’t think any these will happen. |
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Post by vjaska on Jul 20, 2018 0:30:45 GMT
- cross Zone 1 routes to be progressively broken and dismantled. Some route restructuring to create new links or restore old ones lost in recent changes. - some radial to Zone 1 routes to go completely. I can see the 59/159 befalling this with a more intensive shuttle south from Brixton tube (as was done with the 109 years back). Remember the 1970s and 1980s are in vogue again at TfL Towers. Not sure about breaking cross zone 1 routes. It was the 1992 'Catch the Central Changes' that did this that led to the overbussing of Oxford Street. I certainly remember one LBL subsidiary boss commenting on it at the time. I do expect some rationalisation over certain zone 1 corridors so I could envisage more routes that go from zone 2 (as it were) through zone 1 to the other side, with routes feeding into them. The 14/19/22/38/73 NE-SW axis feels ripe for this, and the 73/476 feel likely to be merged in some way. I agree that the 3/59/109 corridor looks a likely candidate for tweaking, with even the 333 getting dragged into it. Out of interest & being my neck of the woods, in what way do you see the 333 getting dragged in? I hope not as the 333 provides some very useful links (Brixton Hill to Stockwell & Clapham Road) being the main reason why it was diverted in 2008 as well as to allow the newly created 415 to run along Brixton Road) and stays away mainly from the 3/59/159 corridor (I presume you mean 159 as the 109 doesn't run further north than Brixton anymore) I am beginning to fear for the 3/59/159 corridor and the subsequent damage it will do considering all three routes have heavy loads along the corridor |
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Post by 6HP502C on Jul 20, 2018 0:47:13 GMT
I am beginning to fear for the 3/59/159 corridor and the subsequent damage it will do considering all three routes have heavy loads along the corridor Is that all day though? I lived in Oval for a short period and used the buses in the AM peak towards Central London. As a user of the network it felt like there was a lot of spare capacity on this corridor in the middle of the peak as presumably there was a lot of interchange to the Underground at Brixton and more at Oval. |
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Post by vjaska on Jul 20, 2018 3:13:56 GMT
I am beginning to fear for the 3/59/159 corridor and the subsequent damage it will do considering all three routes have heavy loads along the corridor Is that all day though? I lived in Oval for a short period and used the buses in the AM peak towards Central London. As a user of the network it felt like there was a lot of spare capacity on this corridor in the middle of the peak as presumably there was a lot of interchange to the Underground at Brixton and more at Oval. I haven't seen that often personally and even using it in the evenings it can be full. Now I'm not saying a frequency decrease here or there couldn't be achieved but to take an entire route out is absolutely the wrong way to go about it. There is quite a bit of interchange at Brixton & Oval but a lot of local links are still used inbetween from what I've noticed. Let's say it's the 159 that's withdrawn with the 59 extended to Streatham but the 159 number kept, I and others along the route will end up with a longer & more unreliable route as a result and Brixton Hill ends up with one route less along an intensive corridor. It's telling that when the 45 terminated at Telford Avenue, that it was never extended further south than that & there has always been 3 routes along the Kennington to Brixton corridor during my lifetime - first the 3, 109 & 159 and now the 3, 59 & 159. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2018 7:51:25 GMT
Route 396 is almost but not quite superfluous, it does indeed provide a link between Ilford, Gants Hill, Newbury Park and King George Hospital. However if TFL are looking for savings then all they need do is slightly up the frequency of the 296 , and have that serve the hospital, maintaining the link, and then withdraw the 396. I DON'T want that to happen but it would save money.
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Post by twobellstogo on Jul 20, 2018 7:57:21 GMT
Is that all day though? I lived in Oval for a short period and used the buses in the AM peak towards Central London. As a user of the network it felt like there was a lot of spare capacity on this corridor in the middle of the peak as presumably there was a lot of interchange to the Underground at Brixton and more at Oval. I haven't seen that often personally and even using it in the evenings it can be full. Now I'm not saying a frequency decrease here or there couldn't be achieved but to take an entire route out is absolutely the wrong way to go about it. There is quite a bit of interchange at Brixton & Oval but a lot of local links are still used inbetween from what I've noticed. Let's say it's the 159 that's withdrawn with the 59 extended to Streatham but the 159 number kept, I and others along the route will end up with a longer & more unreliable route as a result and Brixton Hill ends up with one route less along an intensive corridor. It's telling that when the 45 terminated at Telford Avenue, that it was never extended further south than that & there has always been 3 routes along the Kennington to Brixton corridor during my lifetime - first the 3, 109 & 159 and now the 3, 59 & 159. In these times, it’s not beyond the realms of possibility to see possibly the 360 diverted away from E&C to run via Baylis Road to Waterloo, the 68 to extend to King’s Cross and then the 59 be stripped out completely. Re. out county services : Surrey seem to be doing well in supporting services. I see Kent routes though as being very vulnerable: I can see the 492 being cut to Dartford (so not even fast to Bluewater), and extending the 469 to Crayford could easily do for the 428 (hopper, hopper to the 96)... |
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