|
|
Post by M1104 on Jul 22, 2018 9:19:53 GMT
The 436 was rerouted to Battersea Park mainly because of the eventual opening of the Northern Line extension. It should prove useful for when punters are coming out the tube towards Nine Elms. That could happen buts a short period of each day that large numbers would be coming out. I think in most cases people would walk from either Battersea Park or Vauxhall. Tube stations at the end of their lines generally have the trend of having bus services terminating there from different directions, e.g.. 156, 163/4 and 219 to Wimbledon from the Southfields, Wimbledon Chase and South Wimbledon (Merton) directions respectively. I suspect in due course other bus routes will be amended to finish at the new Battersea terminus. The P5 is already one step closer with a consultation in progress and the G1 and/or 219[1] could 'ideally' be on the pipeline with their extensions from Battersea: Shaftesbury Estate and Clapham Junction respectively. [1] - with a double deck conversion with....ahem!....some 06 reg Es |
|
|
|
Post by M1104 on Jul 22, 2018 9:29:58 GMT
I think some cuts could easily be made around the Elephant & Castle area. There is a very large number of routes serving, many of which duplicate links in various directions. I've suggested before that the 68 could well be at risk. I noticed a few 45's today between E&C and Kings Cross almost empty, I suspect the Thameslink project has taken a lot of custom away despite the problems it's had. I don't know much about that section of the 45 beyond Elephant but with it then being a Saturday wouldn't it generally be quieter on that day of the week? There's also the factor of many people starting their summer holidays away from the capital now that "school's out, it's summer!" Another element of the 45 is the convenience of a direct bus link from the Loughborough Junction, Camberwell and Walworth areas to the Eurostar at Kings Cross. |
|
|
|
Post by rmz19 on Jul 22, 2018 9:39:30 GMT
I've suggested before that the 68 could well be at risk. I noticed a few 45's today between E&C and Kings Cross almost empty, I suspect the Thameslink project has taken a lot of custom away despite the problems it's had. I don't know much about that section of the 45 beyond Elephant but with it then being a Saturday wouldn't it be generally quieter on that day of the week? There's also the factor of many people starting there summer holidays away from the capital now that..."school's out, it's summer!" The 45 is popular between Kings Cross and E&C from my frequent observations along Chancery Lane. Every route has its quiet times, a few empty buses during a certain time of day by no means constitutes for its general level of ridership. |
|
|
|
Post by sid on Jul 22, 2018 9:42:34 GMT
I've suggested before that the 68 could well be at risk. I noticed a few 45's today between E&C and Kings Cross almost empty, I suspect the Thameslink project has taken a lot of custom away despite the problems it's had. I don't know much about that section of the 45 beyond Elephant but with it then being a Saturday wouldn't it be quieter on that day of the week? There's also the factor of many people starting their summer holidays away from the capital now that..."school's out, it's summer!" Another element about the 45 I imagine is the direct bus link from the Loughborough Junction, Camberwell and Walworth areas to Eurostar at Kings Cross...adding Clapham Park for that matter, bearing in mind the 59 runs not too far from there with a more direct routing. I'm sure that is a factor but never the less you wouldn't expect to see double deckers almost empty, possibly a section of route that is only justified Mon-Fri peak hours? I can't help thinking that Eurostar passengers would be more likely to use Thameslink from Loughborough Junction or Denmark Hill and for those who do want a bus there is still the frequent 63 between E&C and Kings Cross. |
|
|
|
Post by rmz19 on Jul 22, 2018 9:47:47 GMT
I can see the 6 being diverted at Hyde Park Corner along route 414 to Putney Bridge which would be the end of the 414. Of course the 414 could be extended to Willesden or beyond after all Willesden is only approx 12 minutes beyond Media Hill. It's a given that the 6 really shouldn't be touched with a bargepole, let alone removed from The West End. It historically served The West End and should remain in its current form due to its popularity. Rather than removing the 414, it can be altered north of Marble Arch and extended elsewhere as it's currently superfluous alongside the 6 to Maida Hill. I suggested this before, the 414 could be rerouted from Edgware Road to Camden Town via St. John's Wood Road and the 274 to Camden Town. |
|
|
|
Post by redexpress on Jul 22, 2018 9:51:00 GMT
Also hasn't been a total disaster thou either the Finchley Road scheme. The poor performance on the 13 has clouded it a bit but I'm sure passengers have enjoyed a more frequent 113 north of Finchley and same with mroe buses on the 13 north of Golders Green. There were always going to be winners and losers with the Finchley Road scheme. One of the main flaws is the reduced service between Swiss Cottage and Golders Green. I took a 13 along this stretch last week - it was in proper sardine tin mode, despite many of the local schools winding down and despite the service running smoothly (for a change - LVF showed buses at regular intervals in front of our bus). I wouldn't draw too many conclusions from one trip but it seems there is still a lack of capacity over this particular section. The rest of the route seems to manage OK providing the service hasn't fallen apart. |
|
|
|
Post by wirewiper on Jul 22, 2018 9:55:20 GMT
I can see the 6 being diverted at Hyde Park Corner along route 414 to Putney Bridge which would be the end of the 414. Of course the 414 could be extended to Willesden or beyond after all Willesden is only approx 12 minutes beyond Media Hill. It's a given that the 6 really shouldn't be touched with a bargepole, let alone removed from The West End. It historically served The West End and should remain in its current form due to its popularity. Rather than removing the 414, it can be altered north of Marble Arch and extended elsewhere as it's currently superfluous alongside the 6 to Maida Hill. I suggested this before, the 414 could be rerouted from Edgware Road to Camden Town via St. John's Wood Road and the 274 to Camden Town. The 6 could go though if there was a Barcelona-style reordering of West End bus routes along horizontal and vertical axes. No bus route is, or should be, sacred. As the proposals for the new Dublin bus network clearly demonstrate. London's central area bus network needs a total rethink. |
|
|
|
Post by sid on Jul 22, 2018 10:04:45 GMT
I can see the 6 being diverted at Hyde Park Corner along route 414 to Putney Bridge which would be the end of the 414. Of course the 414 could be extended to Willesden or beyond after all Willesden is only approx 12 minutes beyond Media Hill. It's a given that the 6 really shouldn't be touched with a bargepole, let alone removed from The West End. It historically served The West End and should remain in its current form due to its popularity. Rather than removing the 414, it can be altered north of Marble Arch and extended elsewhere as it's currently superfluous alongside the 6 to Maida Hill. I suggested this before, the 414 could be rerouted from Edgware Road to Camden Town via St. John's Wood Road and the 274 to Camden Town. It's not a given that the 6 shouldn't be touched with a bargepole it's just your opinion. I'm not necessarily agreeing with rerouting it to Putney replacing the 414 but it's a credible option and as somebody else pointed out much of the Central London network really needs a complete overhaul and I've seen quite a few 6's cruising up and down Park Lane very lightly loaded and at various times of the day. |
|
|
|
Post by ADH45258 on Jul 22, 2018 11:16:19 GMT
I can see the 6 being diverted at Hyde Park Corner along route 414 to Putney Bridge which would be the end of the 414. Of course the 414 could be extended to Willesden or beyond after all Willesden is only approx 12 minutes beyond Media Hill. It's a given that the 6 really shouldn't be touched with a bargepole, let alone removed from The West End. It historically served The West End and should remain in its current form due to its popularity. Rather than removing the 414, it can be altered north of Marble Arch and extended elsewhere as it's currently superfluous alongside the 6 to Maida Hill. I suggested this before, the 414 could be rerouted from Edgware Road to Camden Town via St. John's Wood Road and the 274 to Camden Town. Or the 414 could go to Queens Park via the 36, with the 36 cut back to Paddington (to improve reliability) |
|
|
|
Post by busaholic on Jul 22, 2018 11:16:32 GMT
I've suggested before that the 68 could well be at risk. I noticed a few 45's today between E&C and Kings Cross almost empty, I suspect the Thameslink project has taken a lot of custom away despite the problems it's had. I don't know much about that section of the 45 beyond Elephant but with it then being a Saturday wouldn't it generally be quieter on that day of the week? There's also the factor of many people starting their summer holidays away from the capital now that "school's out, it's summer!" Another element of the 45 is the convenience of a direct bus link from the Loughborough Junction, Camberwell and Walworth areas to the Eurostar at Kings Cross. I doubt the 45 has been busy between Elephant and Kings Cross on a Saturday, any more than the 63 has, since (a) Smithfield Market closed on that day and (b) office workers in the City of London and at its fringes stopped working on Saturday mornings, so we're probably talking forty years ago. In those days, of course, you'd have had plenty of short working buses terminating at Elephant from the south (I remember on the 63 at the time all Crystal Palace journeys started at Elephant during Sat shopping hours). Anecdotally, I was a patient at the Eastman Dental Hospital on Grays Inn Road in the mid 1970s and always had Saturday morning appointments (those were the days!) and I used the 45 to get there, and I rarely remember fighting for a seat! |
|
|
|
Post by ADH45258 on Jul 22, 2018 11:16:57 GMT
It's a given that the 6 really shouldn't be touched with a bargepole, let alone removed from The West End. It historically served The West End and should remain in its current form due to its popularity. Rather than removing the 414, it can be altered north of Marble Arch and extended elsewhere as it's currently superfluous alongside the 6 to Maida Hill. I suggested this before, the 414 could be rerouted from Edgware Road to Camden Town via St. John's Wood Road and the 274 to Camden Town. The 6 could go though if there was a Barcelona-style reordering of West End bus routes along horizontal and vertical axes. No bus route is, or should be, sacred. As the proposals for the new Dublin bus network clearly demonstrate. London's central area bus network needs a total rethink. The Barcelona network only works as most of the city is built on a grid network (unlike London). |
|
|
|
Post by ADH45258 on Jul 22, 2018 11:20:26 GMT
Also hasn't been a total disaster thou either the Finchley Road scheme. The poor performance on the 13 has clouded it a bit but I'm sure passengers have enjoyed a more frequent 113 north of Finchley and same with mroe buses on the 13 north of Golders Green. There were always going to be winners and losers with the Finchley Road scheme. One of the main flaws is the reduced service between Swiss Cottage and Golders Green. I took a 13 along this stretch last week - it was in proper sardine tin mode, despite many of the local schools winding down and despite the service running smoothly (for a change - LVF showed buses at regular intervals in front of our bus). I wouldn't draw too many conclusions from one trip but it seems there is still a lack of capacity over this particular section. The rest of the route seems to manage OK providing the service hasn't fallen apart. Here's a solution to this - a further restructure of the Finchley Road corridor, which retains the intended reductions towards central London, but with an increase between Swiss Cottage and Golders Green. Also shortens the 13 and 113 to improve reliability of these long routes. 13 - Cut back to Golders Green to improve reliability. 113 - Cut back from Central London to improve reliability, operating between Edgware and Swiss Cottage. To use the 603 stand, or new stand space towards South Hampstead Station? 82 - Reintroduced, only between North Finchley and Baker Street. |
|
|
|
Post by wirewiper on Jul 22, 2018 11:22:02 GMT
The 6 could go though if there was a Barcelona-style reordering of West End bus routes along horizontal and vertical axes. No bus route is, or should be, sacred. As the proposals for the new Dublin bus network clearly demonstrate. London's central area bus network needs a total rethink. The Barcelona network only works as most of the city is built on a grid network (unlike London). The West End is pretty grid-like. Even the NE-SW orientation of Shaftesbury Avenue (built deliberately to clear slum areas) could be compared to Barcelona's "Diagonal". |
|
|
|
Post by M1104 on Jul 22, 2018 11:46:10 GMT
I don't know much about that section of the 45 beyond Elephant but with it then being a Saturday wouldn't it be quieter on that day of the week? There's also the factor of many people starting their summer holidays away from the capital now that..."school's out, it's summer!" Another element about the 45 I imagine is the direct bus link from the Loughborough Junction, Camberwell and Walworth areas to Eurostar at Kings Cross...adding Clapham Park for that matter, bearing in mind the 59 runs not too far from there with a more direct routing. I'm sure that is a factor but never the less you wouldn't expect to see double deckers almost empty, possibly a section of route that is only justified Mon-Fri peak hours? I can't help thinking that Eurostar passengers would be more likely to use Thameslink from Loughborough Junction or Denmark Hill and for those who do want a bus there is still the frequent 63 between E&C and Kings Cross. Would the Thameslink get one from South London to the Eurostar by 5 a.m. I wonder? |
|
|
|
Post by SILENCED on Jul 22, 2018 12:16:05 GMT
I'm sure that is a factor but never the less you wouldn't expect to see double deckers almost empty, possibly a section of route that is only justified Mon-Fri peak hours? I can't help thinking that Eurostar passengers would be more likely to use Thameslink from Loughborough Junction or Denmark Hill and for those who do want a bus there is still the frequent 63 between E&C and Kings Cross. Would the Thameslink get one from South London to the Eurostar by 5 a.m. I wonder? Thameslink runs through the night from South London to St. Pancras International 😁 |
|
