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Post by chazzboi on Jul 21, 2018 19:22:49 GMT
Route 396 is almost but not quite superfluous, it does indeed provide a link between Ilford, Gants Hill, Newbury Park and King George Hospital. However if TFL are looking for savings then all they need do is slightly up the frequency of the 296 , and have that serve the hospital, maintaining the link, and then withdraw the 396. I DON'T want that to happen but it would save money. If TFL were to discontinue route 396 then there would be no need to replace the King George Hospital link with the 296 as it’s only a 5 minute walk to a bus stop to get a bus that can take you there or you can take the 15 minute walk to the hospital entrance. Personally I think the 396 route would do much better if it became a loop. From the hospital it could circle back to Ilford via EL3 down to Goodmayes then right and via 86 to Ilford. This would finally connect Ilford, Newbury Park, King George Hospital, Goodmayes and Seven Kings. Although this is unlikely to happen, it will probably get a frequency reduction. |
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Post by vjaska on Jul 21, 2018 19:42:03 GMT
I think the 100 and 242 will disappear at some stage. Of course something would need to replace the lost link to homerton hospital. Maybe tflwill play around with the 26 / 388 / 242 The 100 has lost usefulness ever since it was cut back to London wall and looks like a stub route with limited usefulness I think the 242 is more likely to be cut back to Liverpool Street or even Shoreditch leaves a somewhat short and emasculated route!
I can't see the 100 being axed, it was a useful route even in the days when it only went as far as Liverpool Street. It also has unique routing to serve Shadwell / Wapping and if it were axed I suspect it would leave many more people more than 400m (or whatever it is) from a bus.
Regarding the 100, I think it may well be absorbed into something else instead - my guess is the RV1 being extended from Tower Gateway to Shadwell and foregoing it’s hydrogen buses for new short electric buses with the rest of the 100’s route withdrawn without replacement. |
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Post by ADH45258 on Jul 21, 2018 21:02:14 GMT
Not so much other the southern section but with the 1, 68, 59, 168, 171, 243 and 521 I can see Russel Square/Euston/Holborn to Waterloo I can see some serious thinning there. For nearly all the day there would be plenty of spare cacapcity. I wonder if the 1 could extend to North Greenwich with the Surrey Quays to Elephant section replaced with a diverted 381 maybe and the 188 cut. Or the 68 cut to Waterloo/Elephant with maybe the 468 cut. Any changes to the 1/188 could also involve the C10 (which will either need to be restructured or gain electric vehicles). |
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Post by ADH45258 on Jul 21, 2018 21:05:56 GMT
I think the 242 is more likely to be cut back to Liverpool Street or even Shoreditch leaves a somewhat short and emasculated route!
I can't see the 100 being axed, it was a useful route even in the days when it only went as far as Liverpool Street. It also has unique routing to serve Shadwell / Wapping and if it were axed I suspect it would leave many more people more than 400m (or whatever it is) from a bus.
Regarding the 100, I think it may well be absorbed into something else instead - my guess is the RV1 being extended from Tower Gateway to Shadwell and foregoing it’s hydrogen buses for new short electric buses with the rest of the 100’s route withdrawn without replacement. I think that makes sense - apparently the current hydrogen vehicles are owned by TFL so could be redeployed elsewhere, only issue is the charging facilities installed at LI. Otherwise, perhaps a restructure of SD routes such as the 309, 339 and D3? |
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Post by ADH45258 on Jul 21, 2018 21:09:40 GMT
I think the 100 and 242 will disappear at some stage. Of course something would need to replace the lost link to homerton hospital. Maybe tflwill play around with the 26 / 388 / 242 The 100 has lost usefulness ever since it was cut back to London wall and looks like a stub route with limited usefulness I think the 242 is more likely to be cut back to Liverpool Street or even Shoreditch leaves a somewhat short and emasculated route!
I can't see the 100 being axed, it was a useful route even in the days when it only went as far as Liverpool Street. It also has unique routing to serve Shadwell / Wapping and if it were axed I suspect it would leave many more people more than 400m (or whatever it is) from a bus.
I think another central London route currently operating towards Hackney or Dalston could be rerouted to Homerton, if its links away from central London are duplicated. Though the complex routeing of the 242 around Homerton is unusual for a DD route - depending on what patronage is like on this section, it could even be taken over by a diverted SD route? |
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Post by redbus on Jul 21, 2018 21:10:59 GMT
Regarding the 100, I think it may well be absorbed into something else instead - my guess is the RV1 being extended from Tower Gateway to Shadwell and foregoing it’s hydrogen buses for new short electric buses with the rest of the 100’s route withdrawn without replacement. I think that makes sense - apparently the current hydrogen vehicles are owned by TFL so could be redeployed elsewhere, only issue is the charging facilities installed at LI. Otherwise, perhaps a restructure of SD routes such as the 309, 339 and D3? Another possibility might be to cut the 100 back to Aldgate, that way it won't enter the ULEZ and so can keep its buses, at least for the foreseeable future. This would be a cheaper option as it would negate the need to purchase new electric buses. |
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Post by COBO on Jul 21, 2018 21:15:36 GMT
I can see the E7 or E10 merged into one route just to reduce the amount of routes running between Greenford and Ealing. I.e the E7 withdrawn the E10 taking the routing between Scotch Common and Ealing Broadway. The E9 taking the Yeading to Ruislip section and something taking the White Hart to Barnhill Estate of the E9.
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Post by ADH45258 on Jul 21, 2018 21:28:15 GMT
I think some cuts could easily be made around the Elephant & Castle area. There is a very large number of routes serving, many of which duplicate links in various directions. The corridors in & out of Elephant & Castle are very busy hence why many routes running through follow each other for a good distance however all have their own unique selling point and usefulness. Obviously TfL will no doubt cut stuff here (the 45 & 133 have already done so off the top of my head) but that doesn’t mean it’s correct or justified. Some corridors though still have a large number of routes, with many duplicated links. Elephant & Castle does have good underground links towards Central London, so cuts could at least be made in this direction, towards Westminster, Aldwych or the City. Even if few cuts are made in terms of frequency/capacity of services, some rationalism could take place in most directions from Elephant & Castle, similar to the Finchley Road changes. |
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Post by ronnie on Jul 21, 2018 21:33:56 GMT
I think that makes sense - apparently the current hydrogen vehicles are owned by TFL so could be redeployed elsewhere, only issue is the charging facilities installed at LI. Otherwise, perhaps a restructure of SD routes such as the 309, 339 and D3? Another possibility might be to cut the 100 back to Aldgate, that way it won't enter the ULEZ and so can keep its buses, at least for the foreseeable future. This would be a cheaper option as it would negate the need to purchase new electric buses. I had once posted about merging d8 and 100 into one sensible route. Will try and dig it out. Would make both routes more sensible |
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Post by southlondonbus on Jul 21, 2018 21:43:54 GMT
I seem to recall some papers for Conveys whalf saying the 188 would be cut to Elephant, the 381 withdrawn between Waterloo and Canada Water with a replacement route from London bridge to Waterloo then over the 188 to Greenwich.
Maybe the 188 will simply get diverted at Waterloo to London Bridge and the 381 withdrawn back to Canada Water. That wood reduce capacity around Bermondsey.
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Post by busaholic on Jul 21, 2018 22:24:28 GMT
I seem to recall some papers for Conveys whalf saying the 188 would be cut to Elephant, the 381 withdrawn between Waterloo and Canada Water with a replacement route from London bridge to Waterloo then over the 188 to Greenwich. So half an hour after leaving London Bridge you'd have reached a point less than a mile down the road as the crow flies: that's on a good day for traffic! I know tourists are meant to have unlimited time, but that'd make sure they never returned.  |
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Post by sid on Jul 21, 2018 22:51:25 GMT
I think some cuts could easily be made around the Elephant & Castle area. There is a very large number of routes serving, many of which duplicate links in various directions. I've suggested before that the 68 could well be at risk. I noticed a few 45's today between E&C and Kings Cross almost empty, I suspect the Thameslink project has taken a lot of custom away despite the problems it's had. |
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Post by vjaska on Jul 21, 2018 23:26:32 GMT
The corridors in & out of Elephant & Castle are very busy hence why many routes running through follow each other for a good distance however all have their own unique selling point and usefulness. Obviously TfL will no doubt cut stuff here (the 45 & 133 have already done so off the top of my head) but that doesn’t mean it’s correct or justified. Some corridors though still have a large number of routes, with many duplicated links. Elephant & Castle does have good underground links towards Central London, so cuts could at least be made in this direction, towards Westminster, Aldwych or the City. Even if few cuts are made in terms of frequency/capacity of services, some rationalism could take place in most directions from Elephant & Castle, similar to the Finchley Road changes. Again, whilst I accept that cuts will inevitably happen because that's the mantra TfL has sadly decided upon, that doesn't mean it's right and really, these corridors should be left alone - the network we have in London is really great as it is. The Underground should also not be used as a reason as there is only so much capacity on the network of which most is already at capacity whilst the Finchley Road changes have hardly been a roaring success. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Jul 22, 2018 7:32:24 GMT
Also hasn't been a total disaster thou either the Finchley Road scheme. The poor performance on the 13 has clouded it a bit but I'm sure passengers have enjoyed a more frequent 113 north of Finchley and same with mroe buses on the 13 north of Golders Green.
Same with New Addington. Very few issues reported there yet savings have been made and if anything new links created by the 64 running around much more of New Addington.
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Post by busman on Jul 22, 2018 8:22:40 GMT
I seem to recall some papers for Conveys whalf saying the 188 would be cut to Elephant, the 381 withdrawn between Waterloo and Canada Water with a replacement route from London bridge to Waterloo then over the 188 to Greenwich. Maybe the 188 will simply get diverted at Waterloo to London Bridge and the 381 withdrawn back to Canada Water. That wood reduce capacity around Bermondsey. Some of the future aspirations in that area are largely linked to the New Bermondsey development which is subject to delays for all sorts of intriguing reasons. |
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