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Post by sid on Oct 18, 2018 19:47:14 GMT
I wouldn't actually expect them to stop, it's easier for a pedestrian to wait for the cyclist to pass. In that case maybe we shouldn’t expect cars to stop at a pedestrian crossing either? Depends on the circumstances, if one car was approaching I wouldn't expect them to stop for me, they'll clear the crossing quicker than I will. |
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Post by DT 11 on Oct 18, 2018 19:52:59 GMT
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Post by SILENCED on Oct 18, 2018 20:02:15 GMT
In that case maybe we shouldn’t expect cars to stop at a pedestrian crossing either? Depends on the circumstances, if one car was approaching I wouldn't expect them to stop for me, they'll clear the crossing quicker than I will. So if a car has stopped, would you then wait for a cyclist to pass ... sure one way to pee off the motorist that would think twice about doing it next time! |
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Post by redbus on Oct 18, 2018 20:16:12 GMT
Prospects of cyclists stopping at the zebra crossing whilst a pedestrian is waiting to cross are ? ? ? I wouldn't actually expect them to stop, it's easier for a pedestrian to wait for the cyclist to pass. Easier for whom? Sure it is easier for the cyclist, as it would be for a car driver or bus driver, not withstanding the physical effort in cycling, to pass and for the pedestrian to wait. This misses two important points :-
- Road users are expected to stop at zebra crossings, that is the highway code. There is no exception 'because it is easier for the pedestrian to wait'
- If cyclists should have priority because it easier for the pedestrian to wait, then remove the zebra crossing altogether and let pedestrians wait until it is clear. If you don't think pedestrians should have the rights associated with a zebra crossing, then don't have a zebra crossing in the first place.
As for encouraging cycling I am in favour of that within reason, but not at all costs. Firstly the highway needs to be respected and enforced, that in itself I would argue would encourage more safe cycling. Secondly if bus passengers make a modal shift to cycling, I don't want more bus cuts, that simply makes life tougher for all the remaining bus passengers and that is not right.
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Post by sid on Oct 18, 2018 20:18:20 GMT
Depends on the circumstances, if one car was approaching I wouldn't expect them to stop for me, they'll clear the crossing quicker than I will. So if a car has stopped, would you then wait for a cyclist to pass ... sure one way to pee off the motorist that would think twice about doing it next time! That isn't what I said. |
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Post by sid on Oct 18, 2018 20:21:02 GMT
I wouldn't actually expect them to stop, it's easier for a pedestrian to wait for the cyclist to pass. Easier for whom? Sure it is easier for the cyclist, as it would be for a car driver or bus driver, not withstanding the physical effort in cycling, to pass and for the pedestrian to wait. This misses two important points :-
- Road users are expected to stop at zebra crossings, that is the highway code. There is no exception 'because it is easier for the pedestrian to wait'
- If cyclists should have priority because it easier for the pedestrian to wait, then remove the zebra crossing altogether and let pedestrians wait until it is clear. If you don't think pedestrians should have the rights associated with a zebra crossing, then don't have a zebra crossing in the first place.
As for encouraging cycling I am in favour of that within reason, but not at all costs. Firstly the highway needs to be respected and enforced, that in itself I would argue would encourage more safe cycling. Secondly if bus passengers make a modal shift to cycling, I don't want more bus cuts, that simply makes life tougher for all the remaining bus passengers and that is not right.
There is no hard and fast rule about pedestrian crossings, generally common sense applies. If there is a decline in bus usage as there has been then cuts in services are pretty much inevitable. |
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Post by SILENCED on Oct 18, 2018 20:59:59 GMT
Easier for whom? Sure it is easier for the cyclist, as it would be for a car driver or bus driver, not withstanding the physical effort in cycling, to pass and for the pedestrian to wait. This misses two important points :-
- Road users are expected to stop at zebra crossings, that is the highway code. There is no exception 'because it is easier for the pedestrian to wait'
- If cyclists should have priority because it easier for the pedestrian to wait, then remove the zebra crossing altogether and let pedestrians wait until it is clear. If you don't think pedestrians should have the rights associated with a zebra crossing, then don't have a zebra crossing in the first place.
As for encouraging cycling I am in favour of that within reason, but not at all costs. Firstly the highway needs to be respected and enforced, that in itself I would argue would encourage more safe cycling. Secondly if bus passengers make a modal shift to cycling, I don't want more bus cuts, that simply makes life tougher for all the remaining bus passengers and that is not right.
There is no hard and fast rule about pedestrian crossings, generally common sense applies. If there is a decline in bus usage as there has been then cuts in services are pretty much inevitable. Maybe no hard and fast rule, but there is the law www.askthe.police.uk/content/Q677.htm |
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Post by redbus on Oct 18, 2018 21:02:34 GMT
Easier for whom? Sure it is easier for the cyclist, as it would be for a car driver or bus driver, not withstanding the physical effort in cycling, to pass and for the pedestrian to wait. This misses two important points :-
- Road users are expected to stop at zebra crossings, that is the highway code. There is no exception 'because it is easier for the pedestrian to wait'
- If cyclists should have priority because it easier for the pedestrian to wait, then remove the zebra crossing altogether and let pedestrians wait until it is clear. If you don't think pedestrians should have the rights associated with a zebra crossing, then don't have a zebra crossing in the first place.
As for encouraging cycling I am in favour of that within reason, but not at all costs. Firstly the highway needs to be respected and enforced, that in itself I would argue would encourage more safe cycling. Secondly if bus passengers make a modal shift to cycling, I don't want more bus cuts, that simply makes life tougher for all the remaining bus passengers and that is not right.
There is no hard and fast rule about pedestrian crossings, generally common sense applies. If there is a decline in bus usage as there has been then cuts in services are pretty much inevitable. There are very clear rules on zebra crossings in the highway code including :-
• You MUST give way when a pedestrian has moved onto a crossing
• Look out for pedestrians waiting to cross and be ready to slow down or stop to let them cross
• Be aware of pedestrians approaching from the side of the crossing
So if there are pedestrians around, you need to slow and be ready to stop for them. If they have stepped onto the crossing, even so little as to have one foot on it, you must stop.
If I am given a choice in encouraging cycling and having bus cuts due to a reduction in passengers from modal shift, or not encouraging cycling, I would sooner not go out of my way to encourage cycling and keep the bus passengers and no bus cuts. Personally I think it is a false choice, it doesn't have to be that way, but if that's the choice I am faced with, I'll choose the buses each time.
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Post by sid on Oct 18, 2018 21:16:36 GMT
There is no hard and fast rule about pedestrian crossings, generally common sense applies. If there is a decline in bus usage as there has been then cuts in services are pretty much inevitable. There are very clear rules on zebra crossings in the highway code including :-
• You MUST give way when a pedestrian has moved onto a crossing
• Look out for pedestrians waiting to cross and be ready to slow down or stop to let them cross
• Be aware of pedestrians approaching from the side of the crossing
So if there are pedestrians around, you need to slow and be ready to stop for them. If they have stepped onto the crossing, even so little as to have one foot on it, you must stop.
If I am given a choice in encouraging cycling and having bus cuts due to a reduction in passengers from modal shift, or not encouraging cycling, I would sooner not go out of my way to encourage cycling and keep the bus passengers and no bus cuts. Personally I think it is a false choice, it doesn't have to be that way, but if that's the choice I am faced with, I'll choose the buses each time.
It is general etiquette for drivers to stop if a pedestrian is waiting to cross but I don't know of anybody being prosecuted for not doing so. |
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Post by SILENCED on Oct 18, 2018 21:24:05 GMT
There are very clear rules on zebra crossings in the highway code including :-
• You MUST give way when a pedestrian has moved onto a crossing
• Look out for pedestrians waiting to cross and be ready to slow down or stop to let them cross
• Be aware of pedestrians approaching from the side of the crossing
So if there are pedestrians around, you need to slow and be ready to stop for them. If they have stepped onto the crossing, even so little as to have one foot on it, you must stop.
If I am given a choice in encouraging cycling and having bus cuts due to a reduction in passengers from modal shift, or not encouraging cycling, I would sooner not go out of my way to encourage cycling and keep the bus passengers and no bus cuts. Personally I think it is a false choice, it doesn't have to be that way, but if that's the choice I am faced with, I'll choose the buses each time.
It is general etiquette for drivers to stop if a pedestrian is waiting to cross but I don't know of anybody being prosecuted for not doing so. It is not general etiquette it is the law. The fact it is rarely ever enforced does not change this fact! If you don't stop and hit someone you WILL be prosecuted. It is not the pedestrians fault. |
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Post by redbus on Oct 18, 2018 22:26:07 GMT
It is general etiquette for drivers to stop if a pedestrian is waiting to cross but I don't know of anybody being prosecuted for not doing so. It is not general etiquette it is the law. The fact it is rarely ever enforced does not change this fact! If you don't stop and hit someone you WILL be prosecuted. It is not the pedestrians fault. You are right, and if you are 'unlucky' enough to be caught by a policeman for failing to stop at a zebra crossing you can be prosecuted even if there's no accident. I suspect you'll never hear about the vast majority of prosecutions as they don't make the news. |
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Post by busman on Oct 18, 2018 23:10:06 GMT
It is not general etiquette it is the law. The fact it is rarely ever enforced does not change this fact! If you don't stop and hit someone you WILL be prosecuted. It is not the pedestrians fault. You are right, and if you are 'unlucky' enough to be caught by a policeman for failing to stop at a zebra crossing you can be prosecuted even if there's no accident. I suspect you'll never hear about the vast majority of prosecutions as they don't make the news. Problem is that many cyclists treat stopping at any pedestrian crossing as “general etiquette”. It is indeed the law and more needs to be done to educate cyclists about the relevant highway code rules. Obviously no need to learn about motorways, caravan towing etc, just the relevant stuff. It would help keep cyclists and pedestrians safer. |
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Post by SILENCED on Oct 19, 2018 0:05:39 GMT
You are right, and if you are 'unlucky' enough to be caught by a policeman for failing to stop at a zebra crossing you can be prosecuted even if there's no accident. I suspect you'll never hear about the vast majority of prosecutions as they don't make the news. Problem is that many cyclists treat stopping at any pedestrian crossing as “general etiquette”. It is indeed the law and more needs to be done to educate cyclists about the relevant highway code rules. Obviously no need to learn about motorways, caravan towing etc, just the relevant stuff. It would help keep cyclists and pedestrians safer. Pedestrians should just kick the front wheel very hard of any cyclist that threatens not to stop .... They would so very quickly learn when it is the cyclist and not the pedestrian that gets hurt! On my local route a SLS is by far preferable over an ENS! |
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Post by vjaska on Oct 19, 2018 0:25:09 GMT
Easier for whom? Sure it is easier for the cyclist, as it would be for a car driver or bus driver, not withstanding the physical effort in cycling, to pass and for the pedestrian to wait. This misses two important points :-
- Road users are expected to stop at zebra crossings, that is the highway code. There is no exception 'because it is easier for the pedestrian to wait'
- If cyclists should have priority because it easier for the pedestrian to wait, then remove the zebra crossing altogether and let pedestrians wait until it is clear. If you don't think pedestrians should have the rights associated with a zebra crossing, then don't have a zebra crossing in the first place.
As for encouraging cycling I am in favour of that within reason, but not at all costs. Firstly the highway needs to be respected and enforced, that in itself I would argue would encourage more safe cycling. Secondly if bus passengers make a modal shift to cycling, I don't want more bus cuts, that simply makes life tougher for all the remaining bus passengers and that is not right.
There is no hard and fast rule about pedestrian crossings, generally common sense applies. The highway code states you must stop at a zebra crossing if there are pedestrians waiting to cross so there is a hard & fast rule. My instructor used to say that when approaching a zebra crossing and there is someone there but there not quite facing the crossing, you should anticipate that may suddenly cross as well - that's the common sense part but the first part is law. |
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Post by sid on Oct 19, 2018 4:45:04 GMT
Problem is that many cyclists treat stopping at any pedestrian crossing as “general etiquette”. It is indeed the law and more needs to be done to educate cyclists about the relevant highway code rules. Obviously no need to learn about motorways, caravan towing etc, just the relevant stuff. It would help keep cyclists and pedestrians safer. Pedestrians should just kick the front wheel very hard of any cyclist that threatens not to stop .... They would so very quickly learn when it is the cyclist and not the pedestrian that gets hurt! On my local route a SLS is by far preferable over an ENS! And you'll end up in court. |
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