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Post by rif153 on Oct 4, 2019 14:54:47 GMT
I know it's a bit far fetched but I wonder if TFL could investigate merging the 110 and 391 instead as the 419 is now serving a new purpose to Roehampton. Reasons would be it would free up a route at Richmond Bus Station, allow the 110 to reach Richmond thus the H37 could reduce as planned and the 493 could stand at the bus station and the H22 be cut back as planned. The soon to be freq of the 391 will match the planned 110. Downsides would be that the 391 is a bit longer between Richmond and Hammersmith and the indirect routing from Chiswick to Hammersmith over the 237. That said the 110/419 in reality was not about creating new links but mroe reducing pressure on Richmond bus stands. I've previously flirted with the idea of extending the 391 beyond Richmond, and thus reducing overbusing at Manor Circus, and discussed this with george. I myself explored the idea of merging the 391 with the R70, but I decided against it. The merger would have created some new links but not many. The same can be said for a 110/391 merger. The new links created are to the A316, as the 267 already connects the roundabout at London Road/Chertsey Road to Kew Bridge, Gunnersbury, Chiswick, and Hammersmith, ditto the 237 for Hounslow (other than serving Hammersmith). I think that on paper it makes sense to extend the 391, it'll be a short route and I fear for its future once its hacked back to Hammersmith. However, as it has been said, Kew Bridge, Chiswick Roundabout, and the Gunnersbury area are gridlocked during the peaks. You always get a tailback from Chiswick Roundabout during the peaks which is at least half a mile long if not stretching all the way back to Turnham Green. Years of relying on the 65 (and occasionally using the 267) have taught me that the traffic there is a nightmare. Having said that, I object to cutting the 391 back to Hammersmith. Whilst the idealist in me says the route shouldn't be cutback, the pragmatist takes over, and says that cutting the 391 back is necessary. However, had I been my decision, I'd cut the 391 back to Fulham Broadway. I concede its an imperfect solution for a few reasons. I haven't seen three buses occupying the 11's stand in a very long time, so the 391 could share the stand with the 11. This isn't without its flaws. Primarily, you still need to have a bus route linking Sand's End to Hammersmith but the 306 could run from Sand's End to Ealing Broadway. |
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Post by snowman on Oct 14, 2019 19:51:56 GMT
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Post by DE20106 on Oct 14, 2019 20:03:54 GMT
I think RATP (or TfL) would sooner rob some DXEs from the 293 for the H37 and replace them with some spare DDs lying around (as the 293 can take them) rather than ordering new buses. There’s some spare ADHs from the E3’s PVR cut that could be sent down there to provide a common fleet with the single ADH there already for the 293’s school allocation, *should* that be the case. |
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Post by vjaska on Oct 14, 2019 23:37:00 GMT
I think RATP (or TfL) would sooner rob some DXEs from the 293 for the H37 and replace them with some spare DDs lying around (as the 293 can take them) rather than ordering new buses. There’s some spare ADHs from the E3’s PVR cut that could be sent down there to provide a common fleet with the single ADH there already for the 293’s school allocation, *should* that be the case. Which spare ADH's from the E3 - I thought the remaining ones are being used for the 266? |
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Post by snowman on Oct 15, 2019 6:04:52 GMT
I think RATP (or TfL) would sooner rob some DXEs from the 293 for the H37 and replace them with some spare DDs lying around (as the 293 can take them) rather than ordering new buses. There’s some spare ADHs from the E3’s PVR cut that could be sent down there to provide a common fleet with the single ADH there already for the 293’s school allocation, *should* that be the case. Not sure how many months can go on with “short” buses topping up the H37 allocation. Presumably a date will eventually come when TfL will say any top up should be electric rather than diesel As for the 293, not sure TfL would want to pay for a full hybrid double deck allocation on a cross border route (and I think they are scheduled on 266 from December so won’t be available) However assuming RATP are ordering 14 E200MMCs 9m for K1, might be able to get a few DXEs at a good price as part of bigger combined order from ADL |
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Post by DE20106 on Oct 15, 2019 6:17:08 GMT
I think RATP (or TfL) would sooner rob some DXEs from the 293 for the H37 and replace them with some spare DDs lying around (as the 293 can take them) rather than ordering new buses. There’s some spare ADHs from the E3’s PVR cut that could be sent down there to provide a common fleet with the single ADH there already for the 293’s school allocation, *should* that be the case. Which spare ADH's from the E3 - I thought the remaining ones are being used for the 266? Forgot about that  |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2020 11:49:49 GMT
The consultation on the bus changes Richmond, Twickenham and Whitton seems to be removed, which suggests that the results shall be coming out soon😁!!!
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Post by southlondonbus on Jan 17, 2020 13:26:20 GMT
I guess the question will be will tfl be happy with a Hounslow to Roehampton route. Of so then the changes will progress but if not then maybe a partial change where the 110 is brought into Richmond to Manor Circus, the H22 gets cut back to Twickenham and the H37 drops in freq. Would still make some savings to the cost of the H22, removes some capacity to West Middlesex hospital and provides a bus route along part of the A316.
Then when the bridge is sorted the 419 could go and the 493 can be cut to the bus station.
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Post by rif153 on Jan 17, 2020 13:48:22 GMT
I guess the question will be will tfl be happy with a Hounslow to Roehampton route. Of so then the changes will progress but if not then maybe a partial change where the 110 is brought into Richmond to Manor Circus, the H22 gets cut back to Twickenham and the H37 drops in freq. Would still make some savings to the cost of the H22, removes some capacity to West Middlesex hospital and provides a bus route along part of the A316. Then when the bridge is sorted the 419 could go and the 493 can be cut to the bus station. I could see some sort of fudge being devised as an attempt to appease all parties and prevent issues arising as the closure of Hammersmith bridge has made routes in the area harder to operate. |
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Post by aaron1 on Jan 17, 2020 16:43:37 GMT
For Richmond I think that TFL should merge the 440 and 391 to make better links add more buses so what do you think about this
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2020 17:05:09 GMT
For Richmond I think that TFL should merge the 440 and 391 to make better links add more buses so what do you think about this Won't happen, the 440 is already long enough and is fine as it is |
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Post by ADH45258 on Jan 17, 2020 17:34:39 GMT
For Richmond I think that TFL should merge the 440 and 391 to make better links add more buses so what do you think about this I agree with this, but would require other changes alongside - a Richmond to Wembley route would be too long, particularly along the 440's current routeing. I would instead opt for a revised route 440, between North Acton and Richmond, via the 440 to North Acton, 218 to Acton High Street, 440 through Chiswick Park, then the 391 to Richmond. Could potentially continue beyond North Acton to either Central Middlesex Hospital or Willesden Junction. In West Acton, I would also suggest to reroute more directly along Noel Road, rather than around North Acton playing fields. Then divert the 218 direct via Horn Lane (via the 266), allowing it to convert to DD for better capacity. Then extend from North Acton via the 440 to Wembley Stadium, creating new links from the Wembley area towards Acton and Hammersmith. The increase in capacity as a result of a DD conversion of the 218 may not require the 306 anymore alongside towards Acton Vale. I would instead reroute the 306 along Chiswick High Road, partially replacing the 391 along this section. Then extend the 306 through Chiswick Business Park, then Bollo Lane, Acton Town Station, Gunnersbury Lane, Gunnersbury Avenue, Ealing Common and Uxbridge Road to terminate at Ealing Broadway. This would create new links from Ealing towards Chiswick and Hammersmith, as well as providing the previously proposed E10 extension to Chiswick Park. Stand space would be available at Ealing from the E10's extension to Osterley. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Jan 17, 2020 17:35:24 GMT
Plus merging the 391 and 440 wouldn't remove a route from the bus station. Only merger would be the 110 and 391 or 371 and 391 to create space for the 493.
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Post by ADH45258 on Jan 17, 2020 17:43:26 GMT
I guess the question will be will tfl be happy with a Hounslow to Roehampton route. Of so then the changes will progress but if not then maybe a partial change where the 110 is brought into Richmond to Manor Circus, the H22 gets cut back to Twickenham and the H37 drops in freq. Would still make some savings to the cost of the H22, removes some capacity to West Middlesex hospital and provides a bus route along part of the A316. Then when the bridge is sorted the 419 could go and the 493 can be cut to the bus station. It's often been suggested to instead merge the 110 with the 391 to Hammersmith (since the 391 has been shortened), but is unlikely to be a good idea due to traffic congestion along the 391's routeing. However, considering route 190 could be a better alternative, as this would still provide a link from the 110 route to North Sheen, Mortlake and Hammersmith - omitting only the area around Barnes/Castelnau, where the 33 does link across Richmond towards Twickenham. To incorporate route 190. The 110 could be rerouted via Richmond as proposed, then to Hammersmith via the 190. Then extend the 391 from Hammersmith to West Brompton via the 190. The short extension to West Brompton should be more manageable for the 391 in terms of reliability than extending to Hounslow. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Jan 17, 2020 21:24:25 GMT
If no changes are made for now then I wondered if 2 extra buses will be ordered for the H37. No doubt as the contract was a couple of years ago they will be diesel buses.
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