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Post by Green Kitten on Jun 18, 2020 12:16:02 GMT
Merging the 110 and the 391 is a better idea than merging with the 419. Nice to have a Hammersmith - Hounslow Town Centre link in the day time by bus. Opportunity too to double-deck the route and increase frequency slightly to 5bph as it'll provide some unique and useful links.
I disagree with H37 proposal though especially as it has been downgraded to smaller buses - the 110 isn't as direct. If the 110 is DD and more frequent, then I might be on the fence.
If the H22 is being cut does the 493 really need to be cut so it doesn't serve the station? Any space at Pools on the Park which is closer?
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Jun 18, 2020 12:16:50 GMT
My guess would be the 12th of December as that's when the old 391 contract expires. |
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Post by rif153 on Jun 18, 2020 12:49:31 GMT
From email. 110 to operate Between Hounslow bus station and hammersmith will run via 391 routing. 493 cut back to the bus station H22 extended to West Middlesex Hospital H37 reduced 490 two extra journeys in each peak. The cats out of the bag. We've all long suspected a 110/391 merger in the pipeline, the cross Richmond link may prove useful though it remains to be seen how well this route functions during the day given the congestion around Kew. I completely understand why TfL have decided to proceed in this way but I can imagine opponents of the 391 being cut back at the other end may feel annoyed that TfL told them it was too long and are now merging it with the 110. Extending the H22 to West Mids is an interesting move, again seems odd that TfL said Twickenham Road was overbussed and yet are now extending the H22 up there not least when you consider that the H22 runs at a higher frequency than the 110, not sure if this will change? This will make the H22 a very odd u-shaped route indeed, not sure how much cross Twickenham travel there'll actually be on it but I suppose it can support the 267. The real losers here are those Richmond-Twickenham travellers who are getting a raw deal. Less buses over Richmond Bridge with the H22 cut back and the H37 receiving a PVR cut. The extra journeys on the 490 are better than nothing but still won't go far enough in dealing with capacity problems along there, there's a broad consensus on here that the route needs double deckers. I wonder if more people looking to travel from Richmond to Twickenham will utilise the rerouted 110 and walk especially if their destination is north of Twickenham town centre. Finally, how long is it going to be before the 110 is tampered with again... |
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on Jun 18, 2020 12:58:34 GMT
Finally, how long is it going to be before the 110 is tampered with again... Does make me wonder what routes have been tampered with as much as that route, I think the 440 is certainly a contender with the 388. |
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Post by vjaska on Jun 18, 2020 13:15:52 GMT
Merging the 110 and the 391 is a better idea than merging with the 419. Nice to have a Hammersmith - Hounslow Town Centre link in the day time by bus. Opportunity too to double-deck the route and increase frequency slightly to 5bph as it'll provide some unique and useful links. I disagree with H37 proposal though especially as it has been downgraded to smaller buses - the 110 isn't as direct. If the 110 is DD and more frequent, then I might be on the fence. If the H22 is being cut does the 493 really need to be cut so it doesn't serve the station? Any space at Pools on the Park which is closer? Even if the 110 was DD, I don't think it would still be justified for the H37 to be reduced - as you say, the 110 is less direct and now will be extended right through Kew which resembles a car park at times so could become a less reliable route in general and see people stick to the H37 instead. |
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Post by paulo on Jun 18, 2020 13:20:48 GMT
Merging the 110 and the 391 is a better idea than merging with the 419. Nice to have a Hammersmith - Hounslow Town Centre link in the day time by bus. Opportunity too to double-deck the route and increase frequency slightly to 5bph as it'll provide some unique and useful links. I disagree with H37 proposal though especially as it has been downgraded to smaller buses - the 110 isn't as direct. If the 110 is DD and more frequent, then I might be on the fence. If the H22 is being cut does the 493 really need to be cut so it doesn't serve the station? Any space at Pools on the Park which is closer? Even if the 110 was DD, I don't think it would still be justified for the H37 to be reduced - as you say, the 110 is less direct and now will be extended right through Kew which resembles a car park at times so could become a less reliable route in general and see people stick to the H37 instead. I agree. The H37 is popular for being a very direct link on roads that don’t suffer too much congestion. The 110 routing is anything but. |
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Post by paulo on Jun 18, 2020 13:28:02 GMT
I have a feeling this may operate from V and not AV.
It would allow the 105 and 698 to move into Hounslow and plug a hole that the loss of the 306 to Metroline makes around that time.
I doubt it will be DD, at least initially.
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Post by LK65EBO on Jun 18, 2020 13:29:20 GMT
I have a feeling this may operate from V and not AV. It would allow the 105 and 698 to move into Hounslow and plug a hole that the loss of the 306 to Metroline makes around that time. I doubt it will be DD, at least initially. Maybe the 110 could use the 306 VHs. |
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Post by snowman on Jun 18, 2020 13:51:30 GMT
Here is the report consultations.tfl.gov.uk/buses/bus-changes-richmond/user_uploads/richmond-bus-consultation-report.pdfThe proposals are planned to be revised as follows • Reroute the 110 between Whitton and Richmond via the originally proposed rerouteing of the 419. Extend it from Richmond to Hammersmith via route 391 Extending the 110 to Hammersmith via route 391 is more suitable than extending it via route 419 as it will operate every 15 mins and have a slightly shorter run time. • Withdraw route 391 • Abandon the extension of the 419 • Cut route 493 back to Richmond Bus Station – as original proposal • Cut route H22 back to Twickenham – as original proposal – but also extend it from Twickenham to West Middlesex Hospital. Extending route H22 from Twickenham to West Middlesex Hospital will retain many of the links that are broken by the withdrawal of route 110. It also creates new links for the centre of Whitton. • Reduce frequencies on route H37 – as original proposal • Introduce two journeys in each peak on route 490 to provide sufficient capacity on Staines Road These changes help to address concerns raised in response to the consultation on the original scheme. They take into consideration changes to the network that took place as a result of the long term closure of Hammersmith Bridge. They also give higher frequencies to West Middlesex Hospital and removes excess capacity in the Richmond and Twickenham areas to release resource that can be deployed more effectively elsewhere. As the 391 contract ends in December, I am assuming the changes will take place on same date |
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Post by paulo on Jun 18, 2020 14:01:18 GMT
I have a feeling this may operate from V and not AV. It would allow the 105 and 698 to move into Hounslow and plug a hole that the loss of the 306 to Metroline makes around that time. I doubt it will be DD, at least initially. Maybe the 110 could use the 306 VHs. I think that would only happen if the DLEs (the 110/H22/391 have a common fleet is earmarked for elsewhere, such as the 371. Not sure what the PVR would be for the new 110 but 12 may be light. It’s a long route. |
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Post by snowman on Jun 18, 2020 14:05:29 GMT
Effects on PVRs and garages, my guess (not official)
shortening 493 will reduce its PVR by 2-3 at PL
H37 frequency cut from 6 min to 7-8min, so should become DXE only
110 frequency change from every 20 to every 15 mins adds 2 (from 7 to 9 at AV)
391 becomes 110, stand time Richmond saves 1 (maybe 2 with loss of stand on 110) Currently PVR is 8 at V
H22 probably -1 PVR change as rerouted to West Middx hospital (instead of Manor Circus)
So should release 2-3 buses to GoAhead and RATP will save about 5 buses. (1 DE from H22) and 4 DLE
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Post by rif153 on Jun 18, 2020 14:09:56 GMT
I have a feeling this may operate from V and not AV. It would allow the 105 and 698 to move into Hounslow and plug a hole that the loss of the 306 to Metroline makes around that time. I doubt it will be DD, at least initially. Maybe the 110 could use the 306 VHs. I think its more likely the 306's VHs will go to FW or TV to replace SPs there as I can't see the merged 110/391 running with double deckers not least due to problems like Sandycombe Road being quite narrow. |
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Post by george on Jun 18, 2020 14:59:24 GMT
Merging the 110 and the 391 is a better idea than merging with the 419. Nice to have a Hammersmith - Hounslow Town Centre link in the day time by bus. Opportunity too to double-deck the route and increase frequency slightly to 5bph as it'll provide some unique and useful links. I disagree with H37 proposal though especially as it has been downgraded to smaller buses - the 110 isn't as direct. If the 110 is DD and more frequent, then I might be on the fence. If the H22 is being cut does the 493 really need to be cut so it doesn't serve the station? Any space at Pools on the Park which is closer? No space at Pools on the Park. If there was then it would be good if 493 could stand there to as it would provide a link from Richmond station to sheen. Of course the walk to the next stop isn't far if you're able bodied but if not then it could be quite a step. To be honest I would not be against the idea of the 493 and 490 swapping stands but the 490 picking up passengers at Richmond station effectively using the 337 stand with that route first stop being George Street. I know this won't happen but just an idea. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2020 15:20:32 GMT
From email. 110 to operate Between Hounslow bus station and hammersmith will run via 391 routing. 493 cut back to the bus station H22 extended to West Middlesex Hospital H37 reduced 490 two extra journeys in each peak. Glad my prediction was accurate ! |
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Post by southlondonbus on Jun 18, 2020 16:10:11 GMT
I'm guessing the first stop on the 493 will move to being the George Street stop with the 33 and 337 then Eton Street outside Waitrose then normal line of route and in reverse will drop off at Eton Street as I don't think anything but the 337 can drop off and pick up at the Bus station.
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