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Post by rif153 on Jun 9, 2019 7:26:52 GMT
The Central London bus changes largely feel like an attack on buses in South London with numerous vicious cutbacks to well used routes connecting South and Central London with the 3, 14*, 40*, 45, 53, 59, 171, 172 are all being cutback with the only 'enhancements' being to the 35 and 343.
* I know these routes are being cutback and then extended but there's still a loss of sorts
Spot on. The very area with very few tube options, and relies heavily on buses, I know South London has a large suburban network, but again, expensive fares, plus train services aren’t what they used to be, especially in South East London, where in 2022, the Woolwich line will be served by Cannon Street trains only, meaning no more West End trains, the very bus that took Woolwich residents to the West End will have been cut to County Hall by then. Anyone whose travelled on the South Eastern trains, will know that the stock hasn’t been refurbished, yet the trains are nearly 30 years old, no sign of new stock either. I digress, South Londoners are fed up being shafted aside, you cannot force people on tubes or trains, why shouldn’t people travel to Oxford Street for £1.50? People pay enough to TfL to earn that privilege Not to mention the shambolic service Southeastern and Thameslink are providing |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2019 7:36:32 GMT
Lewisham needs some serious restructuring for bu, es to get out of stand into the station and then lewisham market, on a good day it takes 15 minutes to go from stand to market, on bad day like Saturday 20, stupidity and non-moving congestion. I was doing the 199 end to end yesterday and getting out of Lewis Grove and left onto the High Street to the Clock Tower was a nightmare, there were lots of buses piled up waiting to make that left turn but each time the light changed none of the buses could turn left because there was no space on the High Street for them without fouling the junction. It was agonisingly slow.
On a side note Lewisham Road is even worse for congestion. The lights at the top were only letting a handful of cars turn left on to Blackheath Road. Predictably, tailbacks on Blackheath Road meant no cars could turn into it causing a long tailback down Lewisham Road which must have hampered the 180 and 199
It was just yesterday. Never normally that bad, but was like that yesterday. I think it all stems back from the temporary lights at Deptford Bridge causing cahos across Lewisham and Blackheath. Got two turns on the 180 yesterday. Cutty Sark and Lewisham Station. |
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Post by rif153 on Jun 9, 2019 8:01:38 GMT
I was doing the 199 end to end yesterday and getting out of Lewis Grove and left onto the High Street to the Clock Tower was a nightmare, there were lots of buses piled up waiting to make that left turn but each time the light changed none of the buses could turn left because there was no space on the High Street for them without fouling the junction. It was agonisingly slow.
On a side note Lewisham Road is even worse for congestion. The lights at the top were only letting a handful of cars turn left on to Blackheath Road. Predictably, tailbacks on Blackheath Road meant no cars could turn into it causing a long tailback down Lewisham Road which must have hampered the 180 and 199
It was just yesterday. Never normally that bad, but was like that yesterday. I think it all stems back from the temporary lights at Deptford Bridge causing cahos across Lewisham and Blackheath. Got two turns on the 180 yesterday. Cutty Sark and Lewisham Station. I saw a 180 blinded for Lewisham Station coming down Lewisham Road at about 12:50-1:10 yesterday, that wasn't you by any chance was it? |
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Post by sid on Jun 9, 2019 8:15:49 GMT
Spot on. The very area with very few tube options, and relies heavily on buses, I know South London has a large suburban network, but again, expensive fares, plus train services aren’t what they used to be, especially in South East London, where in 2022, the Woolwich line will be served by Cannon Street trains only, meaning no more West End trains, the very bus that took Woolwich residents to the West End will have been cut to County Hall by then. Anyone whose travelled on the South Eastern trains, will know that the stock hasn’t been refurbished, yet the trains are nearly 30 years old, no sign of new stock either. I digress, South Londoners are fed up being shafted aside, you cannot force people on tubes or trains, why shouldn’t people travel to Oxford Street for £1.50? People pay enough to TfL to earn that privilege Not to mention the shambolic service Southeastern and Thameslink are providing To be fair I think both have improved considerably since the work at London Bridge finished. |
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Post by rif153 on Jun 9, 2019 8:17:35 GMT
Not to mention the shambolic service Southeastern and Thameslink are providing To be fair I think both have improved considerably since the work at London Bridge finished. I do tend to agree with you there but the services could still be a lot better, I think GTR are improving a little but still aren't great |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2019 8:23:35 GMT
It was just yesterday. Never normally that bad, but was like that yesterday. I think it all stems back from the temporary lights at Deptford Bridge causing cahos across Lewisham and Blackheath. Got two turns on the 180 yesterday. Cutty Sark and Lewisham Station. I saw a 180 blinded for Lewisham Station coming down Lewisham Road at about 12:50-1:10 yesterday, that wasn't you by any chance was it? Nah. Mine was around 5pm as I was a late meal relief coming off. |
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Post by Pilot on Jun 9, 2019 9:59:19 GMT
I was doing the 199 end to end yesterday and getting out of Lewis Grove and left onto the High Street to the Clock Tower was a nightmare, there were lots of buses piled up waiting to make that left turn but each time the light changed none of the buses could turn left because there was no space on the High Street for them without fouling the junction. It was agonisingly slow.
On a side note Lewisham Road is even worse for congestion. The lights at the top were only letting a handful of cars turn left on to Blackheath Road. Predictably, tailbacks on Blackheath Road meant no cars could turn into it causing a long tailback down Lewisham Road which must have hampered the 180 and 199
It was just yesterday. Never normally that bad, but was like that yesterday. I think it all stems back from the temporary lights at Deptford Bridge causing cahos across Lewisham and Blackheath. Got two turns on the 180 yesterday. Cutty Sark and Lewisham Station. Got Downham on 181 myself...almost twice. Route controller called said don't go into stand if possible, but hang on entire Lewisham Station was blocked by GoAhead drivers so no other option, so of course go into stand to lose 25 minutes for 5 minute break. I've done the same thing on second half but no turn then because they probably thought I tried to lose mileage on purpose or something when that's not true, they just get butthurt or something because radio'd in saying don't use stand and I went in there anyways for toilet break, so finished like 15 min late with other bus behind me who went in and out of station.
I still think Lewisham needs to get something sorted, or at least properly enforce lane jumpers and what not (cough cough GoAhead drivers lol). I think it wouldn't be rocket science to have dedicated bus lane from station to where bus lane starts at clock tower for the lewis grove, yeah it may or may not potentially cause more frequent car congestion but at least if buses are moving then they're not blocking car lanes/junctions trying to be desperate to get out of Rennel Street.
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Post by route53 on Jun 9, 2019 10:24:44 GMT
Spot on. The very area with very few tube options, and relies heavily on buses, I know South London has a large suburban network, but again, expensive fares, plus train services aren’t what they used to be, especially in South East London, where in 2022, the Woolwich line will be served by Cannon Street trains only, meaning no more West End trains, the very bus that took Woolwich residents to the West End will have been cut to County Hall by then. Anyone whose travelled on the South Eastern trains, will know that the stock hasn’t been refurbished, yet the trains are nearly 30 years old, no sign of new stock either. I digress, South Londoners are fed up being shafted aside, you cannot force people on tubes or trains, why shouldn’t people travel to Oxford Street for £1.50? People pay enough to TfL to earn that privilege Not to mention the shambolic service Southeastern and Thameslink are providing Thameslink isn’t that great yes your right, far too slow. |
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Post by danorak on Jun 9, 2019 11:58:34 GMT
Not to mention the shambolic service Southeastern and Thameslink are providing To be fair I think both have improved considerably since the work at London Bridge finished. Not in my experience. I don't commute in all the time now but when I do, there will be a delay to either the morning or evening journey - I can't be that unlucky! It's crowded and slow. |
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Post by danorak on Jun 9, 2019 12:09:11 GMT
It was just yesterday. Never normally that bad, but was like that yesterday. I think it all stems back from the temporary lights at Deptford Bridge causing cahos across Lewisham and Blackheath. Got two turns on the 180 yesterday. Cutty Sark and Lewisham Station. Got Downham on 181 myself...almost twice. Route controller called said don't go into stand if possible, but hang on entire Lewisham Station was blocked by GoAhead drivers so no other option, so of course go into stand to lose 25 minutes for 5 minute break. I've done the same thing on second half but no turn then because they probably thought I tried to lose mileage on purpose or something when that's not true, they just get butthurt or something because radio'd in saying don't use stand and I went in there anyways for toilet break, so finished like 15 min late with other bus behind me who went in and out of station.
I still think Lewisham needs to get something sorted, or at least properly enforce lane jumpers and what not (cough cough GoAhead drivers lol). I think it wouldn't be rocket science to have dedicated bus lane from station to where bus lane starts at clock tower for the lewis grove, yeah it may or may not potentially cause more frequent car congestion but at least if buses are moving then they're not blocking car lanes/junctions trying to be desperate to get out of Rennel Street.
Agree about the bus lane - you'd need to lose a northbound lane at the lights and change the pedestrian crossing layout, but it would make better use of the road space and be an effective bit of bus priority. Lewis Grove is a problem. I did wonder whether services towards the station could run along the pedestrian bit of the High Street to the clock tower. It would require a bit of work and stop relocation, but that bit is underused - the stalls just use it to dump rubbish. |
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Post by route53 on Jun 9, 2019 13:19:26 GMT
Spot on. The very area with very few tube options, and relies heavily on buses, I know South London has a large suburban network, but again, expensive fares, plus train services aren’t what they used to be, especially in South East London, where in 2022, the Woolwich line will be served by Cannon Street trains only, meaning no more West End trains, the very bus that took Woolwich residents to the West End will have been cut to County Hall by then. Anyone whose travelled on the South Eastern trains, will know that the stock hasn’t been refurbished, yet the trains are nearly 30 years old, no sign of new stock either. I digress, South Londoners are fed up being shafted aside, you cannot force people on tubes or trains, why shouldn’t people travel to Oxford Street for £1.50? People pay enough to TfL to earn that privilege I can just about reluctantly accept the 53 being curtailed south of the river, I assume from your user name you have an affinity for the route, but Lower Marsh is an awful last stop for the 53 and I think it should use the current 77 stand with the 77 extended to Blackfriars in part replacement of the RV1. Alternatively return the 53 to Oxford Circus replacing the 453 but it would no doubt be deemed to long a route nowadays. The biggest concern for me though is the reduction on the 12 that has slipped in under the radar with there being no need to consult over frequency reductions, I can think of quite a few routes where savings could be made but most certainly not the 12 other than the over bussed Peckham to Dulwich section. I never knew about the 12, and that sounds pretty dire. The 53 is indeed my favourite bus route, (hence my username obviously :-) ) it’s a iconic route, I’ve always lived near the route, my motto is who needs the tube when we have the 53, and despite its cutbacks its still a pretty lengthy route, I just hate what the powers that be are doing to the route, it’s a solid and dependable route, and it takes the brunt of the dire rail services around the Greenwich, Woolwich and Blackheath areas. Key radial routes such as the 18, 25, 43, 53, 68, 91, 109 and 207 are vital to the network and should be left alone regardless |
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Post by danorak on Jun 9, 2019 13:40:52 GMT
I can just about reluctantly accept the 53 being curtailed south of the river, I assume from your user name you have an affinity for the route, but Lower Marsh is an awful last stop for the 53 and I think it should use the current 77 stand with the 77 extended to Blackfriars in part replacement of the RV1. Alternatively return the 53 to Oxford Circus replacing the 453 but it would no doubt be deemed to long a route nowadays. The biggest concern for me though is the reduction on the 12 that has slipped in under the radar with there being no need to consult over frequency reductions, I can think of quite a few routes where savings could be made but most certainly not the 12 other than the over bussed Peckham to Dulwich section. I never knew about the 12, and that sounds pretty dire. The 53 is indeed my favourite bus route, (hence my username obviously :-) ) it’s a iconic route, I’ve always lived near the route, my motto is who needs the tube when we have the 53, and despite its cutbacks its still a pretty lengthy route, I just hate what the powers that be are doing to the route, it’s a solid and dependable route, and it takes the brunt of the dire rail services around the Greenwich, Woolwich and Blackheath areas. Key radial routes such as the 18, 25, 43, 53, 68, 91, 109 and 207 are vital to the network and should be left alone regardless The reduction to the 12 was sneaked out on the TfL bus changes page on Friday. My concern is that it could lead to the 453 becoming busier over the Oxford Circus - Elephant section with implications for those of us who would have picked up a southbound 53 in Whitehall. It's sneaky not to have included it in the assessment of the other Central London changes. Over the years, the 53 has got me out of many a scrape. It's been there in all weathers. It's a south east London institution. |
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Post by Paul on Jun 9, 2019 13:51:04 GMT
Lewisham needs some serious restructuring for buses to get out of stand into the station and then lewisham market, on a good day it takes 15 minutes to go from stand to market, on bad day like Saturday 20, stupidity and non-moving congestion. It’s not just coming from the stand that needs sorting; it’s getting out of the station towards the stand as well. The phasing of the lights at the bottom of Station Road and just underneath the railway bridge means that really only one bus at a time can make the right hand turn. I did a rare 208 a few weeks ago and in the morning peak it took me three phases of the lights to get out of Station Road! I’m glad I don’t have to go to Lewisham too often! |
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Post by Pilot on Jun 9, 2019 15:46:00 GMT
Lewisham needs some serious restructuring for buses to get out of stand into the station and then lewisham market, on a good day it takes 15 minutes to go from stand to market, on bad day like Saturday 20, stupidity and non-moving congestion. It’s not just coming from the stand that needs sorting; it’s getting out of the station towards the stand as well. The phasing of the lights at the bottom of Station Road and just underneath the railway bridge means that really only one bus at a time can make the right hand turn. I did a rare 208 a few weeks ago and in the morning peak it took me three phases of the lights to get out of Station Road! I’m glad I don’t have to go to Lewisham too often! You can wait 1hour to get out of it officially without going through amber or red or blocking traffic. 8/10 drivers will jump red going out of stand as well, stand exit needs box junction as well. |
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Post by rif153 on Jun 9, 2019 18:32:18 GMT
It’s not just coming from the stand that needs sorting; it’s getting out of the station towards the stand as well. The phasing of the lights at the bottom of Station Road and just underneath the railway bridge means that really only one bus at a time can make the right hand turn. I did a rare 208 a few weeks ago and in the morning peak it took me three phases of the lights to get out of Station Road! I’m glad I don’t have to go to Lewisham too often! You can wait 1hour to get out of it officially without going through amber or red or blocking traffic. 8/10 drivers will jump red going out of stand as well, stand exit needs box junction as well. I presume it was a case of the traffic ahead not moving anywhere copuled with numerous buses all trying to get out of Station Road |
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