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Post by vjaska on May 12, 2019 0:18:49 GMT
Few ideas N96 - North Greenwich to Darent Valley Hospital via 472 to Plumstead then via 96 route (every 30mins) Discontinue the 472 night service N53 - Whitehall - Thamesmead (via route 53 to Plumstead then 472 route) at its current frequency maybe even divert the N53 to service QE hospital so it has a night service all week Also an idea I’ve mentioned before reintroduce the N47 but as Shoreditch - Croydon Town Centre (via current routes 47 to Catford then route 75) The N96 idea seems very reasonable - I'd personally stop at Dartford because the local taxi trade is more likely to be popular and I suspect most wanting the hospital wouldn't use a night bus. I'd tweak your N47 idea and reintroduce the N75 instead but from Croydon to North Greenwich providing there is the room for all these terminating night routes   |
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Post by busman on May 12, 2019 3:47:50 GMT
As frequent user of many of those services (including late night journeys on Fastrack between Gravesend and Bluewater/Darenth Valley onto the 96), I think these are great ideas. The 96 from Bluewater is very well used in evenings during the week. I would create a night link by extending the 486N into Dartford. Then if well used perhaps look at an option to cover weeknights as well. I completely agree with the 469 taking over the 428 once it gets chopped back from Bluewater. I would create the Woolwich - Bromley link by extending the 291 through Woodlands Estate into Welling and taking over the 126 from Eltham. Southbound routing through Woodlands would turn right off Flaxton Road via Welton Road then Swingate Lane. Northbound routing would be via Swingate Lane and Duncroft before turning right onto Flaxton Road. Buses would follow the 51 route between Swingate Lane and Welling Station before turning into Rochester Way, Welling Way and Westmount Road to join the 126 line of route. With the 126 stand space vacated I would create a new route between Eltham and Clapham Common. This would run via Eltham High Street and then join the A205 before turning off to run via Tulse Hill and Acre Lane into Clapham Common. Eltham to Clapham Common would be too much to run especially along the A205 - Brixton to Catford would be as far as I’d go to give you an idea in terms of what would likely be doable. As an outsider, the 291 seems to be probably the worst candidate to extend everywhere - it achieves its purpose in its role of ferrying people from Woolwich into the Woodlands Estate and is very reminiscent of many town routes outside of London. I agree, the peak running time probably rules out Eltham to Clapham. Eltham to Forest Hill or Tulse Hill at a push is probably the furthest it can go, which limits its use beyond what the 160 already does. I think Clapham Common to Catford would be ok at around 80-90 minutes running time during peak time. Have to disagree with you on the 291 though. It has a lot of potential to be extended due to its short running time and extra capacity for most of the day. I can tell you that a local route through Plumstead Common into Eltham would be very well used, as that journey isn't great right now unless you have a car. |
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Post by busman on May 12, 2019 5:18:43 GMT
As frequent user of many of those services (including late night journeys on Fastrack between Gravesend and Bluewater/Darenth Valley onto the 96), I think these are great ideas. The 96 from Bluewater is very well used in evenings during the week. I would create a night link by extending the 486N into Dartford. Then if well used perhaps look at an option to cover weeknights as well. I completely agree with the 469 taking over the 428 once it gets chopped back from Bluewater. I would create the Woolwich - Bromley link by extending the 291 through Woodlands Estate into Welling and taking over the 126 from Eltham. Southbound routing through Woodlands would turn right off Flaxton Road via Welton Road then Swingate Lane. Northbound routing would be via Swingate Lane and Duncroft before turning right onto Flaxton Road. Buses would follow the 51 route between Swingate Lane and Welling Station before turning into Rochester Way, Welling Way and Westmount Road to join the 126 line of route. With the 126 stand space vacated I would create a new route between Eltham and Clapham Common. This would run via Eltham High Street and then join the A205 before turning off to run via Tulse Hill and Acre Lane into Clapham Common. <iframe width="23.90000000000009" height="6.240000000000009" style="position: absolute; width: 23.90000000000009px; height: 6.240000000000009px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none;left: 15px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_87287481" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="23.90000000000009" height="6.240000000000009" style="position: absolute; width: 23.9px; height: 6.24px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 1135px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_18793474" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="23.90000000000009" height="6.240000000000009" style="position: absolute; width: 23.9px; height: 6.24px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 15px; top: 250px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_41252702" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="23.90000000000009" height="6.240000000000009" style="position: absolute; width: 23.9px; height: 6.24px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 1135px; top: 250px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_3391818" scrolling="no"></iframe> I think Dartford deserves a 7 night a week service and I wonder if an N422 would be viable with an extension to Dartford? The advantage over the more obvious N96 is that it serves the Bedonwell area. It could possibly be funded by withdrawing the N21 between Eltham and Bexleyheath and rerouting it to Foots Cray in place of the night service on the 321? Interesting idea for the 291 although it is a bit indirect compared to returning the 161 to Bromley. I did suggest something similar a while back by extending the 126 to Thamesmead via Welling. I'm afraid I'd be a bit dubious about the Eltham to Clapham Common idea. Yeah, the peak running time on Eltham to Clapham would be a non-starter. In terms of links to Bromley I like your earlier suggestion of extending the 129 via the current 180 and 320. If the 161 was extended back to Bromley, I would also terminate it at Woolwich. The 180 could be diverted to North Greenwich to avoid over-bussing between Greenwich and Lewisham and also to replace the withdrawn section of the 161. The local Eltham councillors would be raging at losing their indirect link into North Greenwich:D To link Thamesmead to Welling, I would suggest diverting the B11 once the 301 is introduced. Keep the Thamesmead part and then divert at Crook Log to run into Welling. Buses can either terminate at Welling Library or be extended into Eltham via Hook Lane, Falconwood Station, Ryefield Road, Eltham High Street and Eltham Station. |
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Post by I-Azusio-I on May 12, 2019 6:12:35 GMT
Few ideas N96 - North Greenwich to Darent Valley Hospital via 472 to Plumstead then via 96 route (every 30mins) Discontinue the 472 night service N53 - Whitehall - Thamesmead (via route 53 to Plumstead then 472 route) at its current frequency maybe even divert the N53 to service QE hospital so it has a night service all week Also an idea I’ve mentioned before reintroduce the N47 but as Shoreditch - Croydon Town Centre (via current routes 47 to Catford then route 75) The N96 idea seems very reasonable - I'd personally stop at Dartford because the local taxi trade is more likely to be popular and I suspect most wanting the hospital wouldn't use a night bus. I'd tweak your N47 idea and reintroduce the N75 instead but from Croydon to North Greenwich providing there is the room for all these terminating night routes I doubt there would be much demand for a North Greenwich to Croydon night route. People can just change from a 108 to N47 at Lewisham. N47 has more worthwhile advantages as in that it covers areas where the Night Overground does not run as well as a third night route from Croydon into Central London with it’s own unique links compared to the others (serving more of the South-East). With how big the Shoreditch night scene is, there would be less pressure on 35N dealing with Croydon passengers and having to change at Elephant or Brixton for busy N68s or N109s. It’s also helpful for people who have missed the last trains from London Bridge to Croydon or whom prefer to save money. 47N in it’s current form is well used but it mirrors N199 for 75% of it’s routing, ironically the latter being more frequent during the weekend than the former. TFL missed the mark on not giving 47 & 75 one combined night route with N47 IMO. |
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Post by DT 11 on May 12, 2019 8:41:17 GMT
Some Single deck routes which really need double deckers could be improved.
129 extended from Lewisham to Bromley Common and 320 cut back to Bromley North.
Swap the 171 & 181 around. 181 to Bellingham and 171 & N171 to Lewisham Station replacing the 181. Gives Hither Green the much needed capacity it needs.
380 extended to Bellingham replacing the 284. 178 extended to Thamesmead via the 380. 380 curtailed to Woolwich
181 extended from Grove Park to Petts Wood and cut the 273 to Grove Park
284 double decked and runs between Catford & Grove Park Cemetery.
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Post by M1104 on May 12, 2019 9:59:22 GMT
201 - reroute section between Tulse Hill and Herne Hill via Norwood Road and extend via Half Moon Lane and East Dulwich to Dogs Kennel Hill Sainsbury's (I would have said East Dulwich Goose Green but assume the bus stand by the roundabout has long since gone). Convert to double deckers
322 - reroute between Herne Hill and Tulse Hill via Croxted Road and the South Circular, in essence swapping that section with the 201. Convert to longer dual doored variant buses
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Post by busboy17 on May 12, 2019 10:34:16 GMT
201 - reroute section of route between Tulse Hill and Herne Hill via Norwood Road and extend via Half Moon Lane and East Dulwich to Dogs Kennel Hill Sainsbury's (I would have said East Dulwich Goose Green but assume the bus stand by the roundabout has long since gone). Convert to double deckers 322 - reroute between Herne Hill and Tulse Hill via Croxted Road and the South Circular, in essence swapping that section with the 201. Convert to longer dual doored variant buses Extend the P13 and 415 to Canada Water to provide new links or extend the 333 to Canada Water to provide a link from Canada Water to Stockwell and Brixton |
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Post by vjaska on May 12, 2019 10:52:52 GMT
201 - reroute section of route between Tulse Hill and Herne Hill via Norwood Road and extend via Half Moon Lane and East Dulwich to Dogs Kennel Hill Sainsbury's (I would have said East Dulwich Goose Green but assume the bus stand by the roundabout has long since gone). Convert to double deckers 322 - reroute between Herne Hill and Tulse Hill via Croxted Road and the South Circular, in essence swapping that section with the 201. Convert to longer dual doored variant buses Extend the P13 and 415 to Canada Water to provide new links or extend the 333 to Canada Water to provide a link from Canada Water to Stockwell and Brixton The P13 is already long enough without then extending it further. As for the 333, Stockwell is not a major shopping hub unlike Brixton and the 415 would already provide the Brixton to Canada Water link. |
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Post by M1104 on May 12, 2019 10:53:22 GMT
Extend the P13 and 415 to Canada Water to provide new links or extend the 333 to Canada Water to provide a link from Canada Water to Stockwell and Brixton The 45 would be ideal for that seeing as it's due to be severely chopped back to the Elephant. |
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Post by busboy17 on May 12, 2019 10:53:48 GMT
Extend the P13 and 415 to Canada Water to provide new links or extend the 333 to Canada Water to provide a link from Canada Water to Stockwell and Brixton The P13 is already long enough without then extending it further. As for the 333, Stockwell is not a major shopping hub unlike Brixton and the 415 would already provide the Brixton to Canada Water link. True but didn’t the P13 go Canada Water at one point |
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Post by vjaska on May 12, 2019 11:01:01 GMT
The P13 is already long enough without then extending it further. As for the 333, Stockwell is not a major shopping hub unlike Brixton and the 415 would already provide the Brixton to Canada Water link. True but didn’t the P13 go Canada Water at one point It went to Surrey Quays Shopping Centre in the early 00's before being diverted to New Cross and replaced by the P12. |
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Post by evergreenadam on May 12, 2019 11:01:16 GMT
Eltham to Clapham Common would be too much to run especially along the A205 - Brixton to Catford would be as far as I’d go to give you an idea in terms of what would likely be doable. As an outsider, the 291 seems to be probably the worst candidate to extend everywhere - it achieves its purpose in its role of ferrying people from Woolwich into the Woodlands Estate and is very reminiscent of many town routes outside of London. I agree, the peak running time probably rules out Eltham to Clapham. Eltham to Forest Hill or Tulse Hill at a push is probably the furthest it can go, which limits its use beyond what the 160 already does. I think Clapham Common to Catford would be ok at around 80-90 minutes running time during peak time. Have to disagree with you on the 291 though. It has a lot of potential to be extended due to its short running time and extra capacity for most of the day. I can tell you that a local route through Plumstead Common into Eltham would be very well used, as that journey isn't great right now unless you have a car. Plumstead Common is quite cut off from the area south of it, except for Welling on the 51. I think a link to Eltham would be quite useful. |
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Post by vjaska on May 12, 2019 11:29:43 GMT
Eltham to Clapham Common would be too much to run especially along the A205 - Brixton to Catford would be as far as I’d go to give you an idea in terms of what would likely be doable. As an outsider, the 291 seems to be probably the worst candidate to extend everywhere - it achieves its purpose in its role of ferrying people from Woolwich into the Woodlands Estate and is very reminiscent of many town routes outside of London. I agree, the peak running time probably rules out Eltham to Clapham. Eltham to Forest Hill or Tulse Hill at a push is probably the furthest it can go, which limits its use beyond what the 160 already does. I think Clapham Common to Catford would be ok at around 80-90 minutes running time during peak time. Have to disagree with you on the 291 though. It has a lot of potential to be extended due to its short running time and extra capacity for most of the day. I can tell you that a local route through Plumstead Common into Eltham would be very well used, as that journey isn't great right now unless you have a car. Just to clarify, I wasn't suggesting a link wouldn't be useful but just saying as an outsider, the 291 looks fine as it is - you would know better than me as I don't like to just wander into someone else's area and dictate to them about their local routes. Eltham to Tulse Hill is still too much personally but Forest Hill would probably just about be doable. The problem is the A205 has so many hotspots, buses would just sit in traffic for a period of time. |
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Post by busboy17 on May 12, 2019 11:41:19 GMT
I agree, the peak running time probably rules out Eltham to Clapham. Eltham to Forest Hill or Tulse Hill at a push is probably the furthest it can go, which limits its use beyond what the 160 already does. I think Clapham Common to Catford would be ok at around 80-90 minutes running time during peak time. Have to disagree with you on the 291 though. It has a lot of potential to be extended due to its short running time and extra capacity for most of the day. I can tell you that a local route through Plumstead Common into Eltham would be very well used, as that journey isn't great right now unless you have a car. Just to clarify, I wasn't suggesting a link wouldn't be useful but just saying as an outsider, the 291 looks fine as it is - you would know better than me as I don't like to just wander into someone else's area and dictate to them about their local routes. Eltham to Tulse Hill is still too much personally but Forest Hill would probably just about be doable. The problem is the A205 has so many hotspots, buses would just sit in traffic for a period of time. Can I just point I also said extending the 291 a while back and someone pointed out to me that it dosent actually stop at the woodlands estate it just go back to the hospital don’t know if it’s true but a link would to Eltham would be useful maybe extend the 126 to North Greenwich and withdraw the 161 to Woolwich and reroute it to Plumstead common |
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Post by route53 on May 12, 2019 12:41:48 GMT
Just to clarify, I wasn't suggesting a link wouldn't be useful but just saying as an outsider, the 291 looks fine as it is - you would know better than me as I don't like to just wander into someone else's area and dictate to them about their local routes. Eltham to Tulse Hill is still too much personally but Forest Hill would probably just about be doable. The problem is the A205 has so many hotspots, buses would just sit in traffic for a period of time. Can I just point I also said extending the 291 a while back and someone pointed out to me that it dosent actually stop at the woodlands estate it just go back to the hospital don’t know if it’s true but a link would to Eltham would be useful maybe extend the 126 to North Greenwich and withdraw the 161 to Woolwich and reroute it to Plumstead common Personally I’d reroute the 161 to Thamesmead, the new 301 could replace the Woolwich to North Greenwich section of the 161. I’m not sure about extending the 291 to anywhere really, it serves a good purpose but being a feeder route from the Woodlands Estate into Woolwich town centre and QE Hospital, both of which have other onward connections to elsewhere. I would extend the 53 to Thamesmead, reroute it so it takes the quicker direct route between Woolwich and Plumstead then onto Thamesmead, this area has no direct connection to Central London, yes it’s nearest station is Abbey Wood but that is still a bus ride away and it’s in zone 4, £1.50 from Thamesmead all the way to Zone 1 would be attractive to a Thamesmead resident, as for the section between Woolwich and Plumstead Common, maybe reroute the 380 to replace that section of the 53? |
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