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Post by busaholic on Jul 25, 2019 16:54:22 GMT
The 53 via Blackheath has been running since 1952, however until that point it was the 53A, the main 53 was the precursor to the 177 in a way as it ran via New Charlton, East Greenwich and Greenwich rather than Charlton Village and Blackheath, this first 53 started service in 1937. The 89 is quite an old route as well, when my family lived in Shooters Hill we had a neighbour who had lived this his whole life, he remembers getting on the 89 down to Westerham via Lewisham and Bromley in the late 1920s/early 1930s and in WW2 his best friends brother was killed when a rocket struck the 89 bus on near Woolwich Common The weirdest episode in the 89's history imo was when it got extended from Welling to Eltham via Bexleyheath and Blackfen. I lived in Eltham and it was always an awful, unreliable service with so many scheduled 'shorts' from the Lewisham direction and unscheduled turns too, so we got the dregs. If buses got through to Eltham they always seemed to return to Lewisham, doubtless because New Cross had the majority allocation. I never saw a bus coming 'dead' from NX via Lee Green to take up service, even when fog/ice/snow on Shooter's Hill meant 2 or 3 hour gaps in service, reminiscent of the 108A at its worst. The poor old 132 had to take all the Eltham to Bexleyheath traffic. |
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Post by route53 on Jul 25, 2019 19:42:13 GMT
The 53 via Blackheath has been running since 1952, however until that point it was the 53A, the main 53 was the precursor to the 177 in a way as it ran via New Charlton, East Greenwich and Greenwich rather than Charlton Village and Blackheath, this first 53 started service in 1937. The 89 is quite an old route as well, when my family lived in Shooters Hill we had a neighbour who had lived this his whole life, he remembers getting on the 89 down to Westerham via Lewisham and Bromley in the late 1920s/early 1930s and in WW2 his best friends brother was killed when a rocket struck the 89 bus on near Woolwich Common The weirdest episode in the 89's history imo was when it got extended from Welling to Eltham via Bexleyheath and Blackfen. I lived in Eltham and it was always an awful, unreliable service with so many scheduled 'shorts' from the Lewisham direction and unscheduled turns too, so we got the dregs. If buses got through to Eltham they always seemed to return to Lewisham, doubtless because New Cross had the majority allocation. I never saw a bus coming 'dead' from NX via Lee Green to take up service, even when fog/ice/snow on Shooter's Hill meant 2 or 3 hour gaps in service, reminiscent of the 108A at its worst. The poor old 132 had to take all the Eltham to Bexleyheath traffic. Yes the very circuitous Eltham extension on the 89 was quiet possibly the most bizarre decision made for a bus, it was always quicker to do the 161 to Shooters Hill then 89 to Lewisham. I recall in the 1990s some 89’s continued to New Cross and in the morning they’d be diverted to Bexley Village. |
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Post by busaholic on Jul 25, 2019 20:23:27 GMT
The weirdest episode in the 89's history imo was when it got extended from Welling to Eltham via Bexleyheath and Blackfen. I lived in Eltham and it was always an awful, unreliable service with so many scheduled 'shorts' from the Lewisham direction and unscheduled turns too, so we got the dregs. If buses got through to Eltham they always seemed to return to Lewisham, doubtless because New Cross had the majority allocation. I never saw a bus coming 'dead' from NX via Lee Green to take up service, even when fog/ice/snow on Shooter's Hill meant 2 or 3 hour gaps in service, reminiscent of the 108A at its worst. The poor old 132 had to take all the Eltham to Bexleyheath traffic. Yes the very circuitous Eltham extension on the 89 was quiet possibly the most bizarre decision made for a bus, it was always quicker to do the 161 to Shooters Hill then 89 to Lewisham. I recall in the 1990s some 89’s continued to New Cross and in the morning they’d be diverted to Bexley Village. With the 61 from Eltham to Bromley North via Orpington as well, we never seemed to have straightforward routes in Eltham - probably encouraged my enthusiasm.  |
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Post by route53 on Jul 25, 2019 22:06:25 GMT
Yes the very circuitous Eltham extension on the 89 was quiet possibly the most bizarre decision made for a bus, it was always quicker to do the 161 to Shooters Hill then 89 to Lewisham. I recall in the 1990s some 89’s continued to New Cross and in the morning they’d be diverted to Bexley Village. With the 61 from Eltham to Bromley North via Orpington as well, we never seemed to have straightforward routes in Eltham - probably encouraged my enthusiasm. A precursor to the 122 (163 I think it was) ran from Bexleyheath following the current 422 route to Woolwich, then followed the 122 route to Crystal Palace before heading to Victoria via West Norwood, Tulse Hill, Brixton, Kennington and Millbank!!! Honestly the most bizarre route ever to grace our London streets! Yes Eltham has often been a testing ground for bizarre, circuitous routes it seems with the 89 & 61 routings in the past, I’ve always thought that the 314 was a strange but useful route,m. |
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Post by londonboy71 on Jul 25, 2019 22:47:31 GMT
Tram route 7 ran from Shepherd Bush to Uxbridge changed to Trolleybus route 607 same routing followed by bus 207 today White City to Hayes By Pass / 427 Acton to Uxbridge and Express 607 White City to Uxbridge so this route is more or less unchanged for over 100 years
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Post by busaholic on Jul 25, 2019 22:56:26 GMT
With the 61 from Eltham to Bromley North via Orpington as well, we never seemed to have straightforward routes in Eltham - probably encouraged my enthusiasm. A precursor to the 122 (163 I think it was) ran from Bexleyheath following the current 422 route to Woolwich, then followed the 122 route to Crystal Palace before heading to Victoria via West Norwood, Tulse Hill, Brixton, Kennington and Millbank!!! Honestly the most bizarre route ever to grace our London streets! Yes Eltham has often been a testing ground for bizarre, circuitous routes it seems with the 89 & 61 routings in the past, I’ve always thought that the 314 was a strange but useful route,m. Got to mention the 227 in this context - when opoed it was Crystal Palace to the Gordon Arms in Chislehurst as in RF days, but got extended Sats only over the 61 to Eltham Well Hall: so Eltham got what I'd long wanted, a direct link to Crystal Palace without having to walk to Westhorne Avenue, but to get there via Chislehurst was ludicrous. |
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Post by LVF_Admin on Jul 26, 2019 8:59:02 GMT
A precursor to the 122 (163 I think it was) ran from Bexleyheath following the current 422 route to Woolwich, then followed the 122 route to Crystal Palace before heading to Victoria via West Norwood, Tulse Hill, Brixton, Kennington and Millbank!!! Honestly the most bizarre route ever to grace our London streets! Yes Eltham has often been a testing ground for bizarre, circuitous routes it seems with the 89 & 61 routings in the past, I’ve always thought that the 314 was a strange but useful route,m. Got to mention the 227 in this context - when opoed it was Crystal Palace to the Gordon Arms in Chislehurst as in RF days, but got extended Sats only over the 61 to Eltham Well Hall: so Eltham got what I'd long wanted, a direct link to Crystal Palace without having to walk to Westhorne Avenue, but to get there via Chislehurst was ludicrous. Don't forget the 314 was a replacement in the main for the B1 that used to run Eltham Well Hall Stn to Bromley North, later extended to Kidbrooke Ferrier Estate and ran with BS and BL types. |
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Post by LVF_Admin on Jul 26, 2019 9:01:46 GMT
With the 61 from Eltham to Bromley North via Orpington as well, we never seemed to have straightforward routes in Eltham - probably encouraged my enthusiasm. A precursor to the 122 (163 I think it was) ran from Bexleyheath following the current 422 route to Woolwich, then followed the 122 route to Crystal Palace before heading to Victoria via West Norwood, Tulse Hill, Brixton, Kennington and Millbank!!! Honestly the most bizarre route ever to grace our London streets! Yes Eltham has often been a testing ground for bizarre, circuitous routes it seems with the 89 & 61 routings in the past, I’ve always thought that the 314 was a strange but useful route,m. The 122 was the longest route when it ran from Slade Green Station to Crystal Palace |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2019 9:40:56 GMT
A precursor to the 122 (163 I think it was) ran from Bexleyheath following the current 422 route to Woolwich, then followed the 122 route to Crystal Palace before heading to Victoria via West Norwood, Tulse Hill, Brixton, Kennington and Millbank!!! Honestly the most bizarre route ever to grace our London streets! Yes Eltham has often been a testing ground for bizarre, circuitous routes it seems with the 89 & 61 routings in the past, I’ve always thought that the 314 was a strange but useful route,m. The 122 was the longest route when it ran from Slade Green Station to Crystal Palace Wasn't it a Saturday only extension from BX to Slade Green? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2019 11:06:09 GMT
I like the 90’s and all the variants
Hammersmith , Chiswick, Richmond, Kew , Twickenham, Hanworth, Feltham, Sunbury, Ashford, Stanies, Hayes, Harlington, Yeading, Northolt and (once’j South Harrow. All these areas have historic connections with being served by a variation of the route 90. Of course now we have the 90,190,290 and 490.
In the past there has been the 90,90A,90B and 90C.
The only section of these former routes not served by a 90 variation is the Sandycoombe Road bit in Kew, but comes close, as it’s the 391.
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Post by busaholic on Jul 26, 2019 11:43:04 GMT
The 122 was the longest route when it ran from Slade Green Station to Crystal Palace Wasn't it a Saturday only extension from BX to Slade Green? Initially it was a Mon-Sat extension to SG (with every other bus curtailed at BX) but became Sat only for a while around 1970. |
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Post by vjaska on Jul 26, 2019 12:38:51 GMT
A precursor to the 122 (163 I think it was) ran from Bexleyheath following the current 422 route to Woolwich, then followed the 122 route to Crystal Palace before heading to Victoria via West Norwood, Tulse Hill, Brixton, Kennington and Millbank!!! Honestly the most bizarre route ever to grace our London streets! Yes Eltham has often been a testing ground for bizarre, circuitous routes it seems with the 89 & 61 routings in the past, I’ve always thought that the 314 was a strange but useful route,m. The 122 was the longest route when it ran from Slade Green Station to Crystal Palace Didn’t it have that title during the 80’s as a Bexleyheath to Crystal Palace route as well? |
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Post by Ted Barclay on Jul 26, 2019 12:40:22 GMT
With the 61 from Eltham to Bromley North via Orpington as well, we never seemed to have straightforward routes in Eltham - probably encouraged my enthusiasm. A precursor to the 122 (163 I think it was) ran from Bexleyheath following the current 422 route to Woolwich, then followed the 122 route to Crystal Palace before heading to Victoria via West Norwood, Tulse Hill, Brixton, Kennington and Millbank!!! Honestly the most bizarre route ever to grace our London streets! Yes Eltham has often been a testing ground for bizarre, circuitous routes it seems with the 89 & 61 routings in the past, I’ve always thought that the 314 was a strange but useful route,m. The route number wasn't 163 it was the 186. That started in July 1952 between Woolwich and Crystal Palace via today's 122. It replaced tram route 72 between Woolwich and Lewisham and the the 94 between there and Crystal Palace. Around 1956/7, the 186 was extended on Monday to Saturday to Victoria via today's route 432 to Brixton and then today's route 2. In the course of its 12 year life it operated from a number of garages, including Abbey Wood, Catford, New Cross and Norwood. The 186 was withdrawn in July 1964 being replaced by an extension of the 122 from Woolwich to Crystal Palace. At the same time the 122 was extended from Bexleyheath to Slade Green on Monday to Saturday. This followed the opening of a new bridge across the railway which replaced the level crossing. Route 163 also started in July 1952 running between Plumstead Common and Victoria Emabnkment via Woolwich, Charlton (lower road), Greenwich, New Cross, Peckham, Camberwell, Kennington and Westminster. It replaced the old 53 between Plumstead Common and Greenwich and tram route 40 between Woolwich and Embankment. It underwent a number of changes, spawning a Sunday replacement, 163A which ran between Camberwell Green and Woodlands Estate, later to Abbey Wood via Abbey Estate in the years 1959- 1966. In 1965 it was extended on Monday to Friday from Westminster to Parliament Hill Fields via Charing Cross Road, Tottenham Court Road and Camden Town. Over the years the 163 had been mainly operated by New Cross, although Camberwell and Walworth (I forget which) also operated it at times. It was withdrawn completely in January 1970 severing the link between Greenwich/Deptford and Peckham, only restored when the 177 was diverted to Peckham in recent time. Ted B |
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Post by Ted Barclay on Jul 26, 2019 12:51:38 GMT
The 53 via Blackheath has been running since 1952, however until that point it was the 53A, the main 53 was the precursor to the 177 in a way as it ran via New Charlton, East Greenwich and Greenwich rather than Charlton Village and Blackheath, this first 53 started service in 1937. The 89 is quite an old route as well, when my family lived in Shooters Hill we had a neighbour who had lived this his whole life, he remembers getting on the 89 down to Westerham via Lewisham and Bromley in the late 1920s/early 1930s and in WW2 his best friends brother was killed when a rocket struck the 89 bus on near Woolwich Common The 53 via New Charlton and East Greenwich has its origins going back to before the First World War, so it didn't start in 1937, but over two decades earlier. Today's 53 via Charlton Village was originally numbered 53A which started in October 1939. It formed part of a scheme which withdrew a route numbered 48 running between Blackheath, Royal Stanard and Golders Green via Deptford, New Cross, Old Kent Road, Waterloo Bridge, Trafalgar Square, Charing Cross Road, Oxford Street, Baker Street and Finchley Road. The 48 was predominantly operated by Plumstead Garage so there would have been a fair few garage journeys via Charlton Village and Woolwich. As already mentioned the 53A was renumbered 53 in the autumn of 1952 following the demise of the 'parent' 53 in July of the same year. |
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Post by route53 on Jul 26, 2019 13:22:53 GMT
A precursor to the 122 (163 I think it was) ran from Bexleyheath following the current 422 route to Woolwich, then followed the 122 route to Crystal Palace before heading to Victoria via West Norwood, Tulse Hill, Brixton, Kennington and Millbank!!! Honestly the most bizarre route ever to grace our London streets! Yes Eltham has often been a testing ground for bizarre, circuitous routes it seems with the 89 & 61 routings in the past, I’ve always thought that the 314 was a strange but useful route,m. The route number wasn't 163 it was the 186. That started in July 1952 between Woolwich and Crystal Palace via today's 122. It replaced tram route 72 between Woolwich and Lewisham and the the 94 between there and Crystal Palace. Around 1956/7, the 186 was extended on Monday to Saturday to Victoria via today's route 432 to Brixton and then today's route 2. J In the course of its 12 year life it operated from a number of garages, including Abbey Wood, Catford, New Cross and Norwood. The 186 was withdrawn in July 1964 being replaced by an extension of the 122 from Woolwich to Crystal Palace. At the same time the 122 was extended from Bexleyheath to Slade Green on Monday to Saturday. This followed the opening of a new bridge across the railway which replaced the level crossing. Route 163 also started in July 1952 running between Plumstead Common and Victoria Emabnkment via Woolwich, Charlton (lower road), Greenwich, New Cross, Peckham, Camberwell, Kennington and Westminster. It replaced the old 53 between Plumstead Common and Greenwich and tram route 40 between Woolwich and Embankment. It underwent a number of changes, spawning a Sunday replacement, 163A which ran between Camberwell Green and Woodlands Estate, later to Abbey Wood via Abbey Estate in the years 1959- 1966. In 1965 it was extended on Monday to Friday from Westminster to Parliament Hill Fields via Charing Cross Road, Tottenham Court Road and Camden Town. Over the years the 163 had been mainly operated by New Cross, although Camberwell and Walworth (I forget which) also operated it at times. It was withdrawn completely in January 1970 severing the link between Greenwich/Deptford and Peckham, only restored when the 177 was diverted to Peckham in recent time. Ted B Thank you :-) Amazing to think that at one time Woolwich and Camberwell were linked by one bus route! The 177 is probably the closest we have to such a link today, I always found it odd that Camberwell was is so cut off from Greenwich & Woolwich yet has multiple links to Lewisham, bus travel in SE London is rather choppy and changing, it’s only really the 53, 54, 122, 177 & 180 routes that provide cross SE London Links The 177 should be extended to Camberwell or better still they should have extended the 129 there instead of to Lewisham. |
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