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Post by SILENCED on Sept 12, 2019 18:37:09 GMT
Expanding the existing WCML, will have to be done whilst it is open ... which again needs property purchases, but not being a green field site allowing 24/7 access ... would mean many years of delays to existing WCML users and neighbourhoods bordering the railway as it is widened, bridges rebuilt. There is no easy choice here ... someone somewhere is going to get inconvenienced. Other countries successfully run HS lines, if we are going to have years of inconvenience, should we not end up ... eventually ... with a world class railway. Can you honestly say HS1 has been a failure ... initially very capital intensive, and financial calamity for the operators, but now seems to be regarded as a success. The WCML is the not the entire railway in the UK which is what I’m referring to. But you are going to have to spend some serious money with serious disruption on the WCML if you don't do HS2 ... or you planning on neglecting it?
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Post by vjaska on Sept 12, 2019 22:06:55 GMT
The WCML is the not the entire railway in the UK which is what I’m referring to. But you are going to have to spend some serious money with serious disruption on the WCML if you don't do HS2 ... or you planning on neglecting it? Who said anything about neglecting it - all I’ve said is it makes little sense neglecting the rest of the UK network in favour of one line.
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Post by rif153 on Sept 12, 2019 22:10:49 GMT
Expanding the existing WCML, will have to be done whilst it is open ... which again needs property purchases, but not being a green field site allowing 24/7 access ... would mean many years of delays to existing WCML users and neighbourhoods bordering the railway as it is widened, bridges rebuilt. There is no easy choice here ... someone somewhere is going to get inconvenienced. Other countries successfully run HS lines, if we are going to have years of inconvenience, should we not end up ... eventually ... with a world class railway. Can you honestly say HS1 has been a failure ... initially very capital intensive, and financial calamity for the operators, but now seems to be regarded as a success. Upgrading the existing WCML is a non starter and the only solution to overcrowding is HS2. As you say HS1 is now a great success and there was similar criticism about that being built. People say HS2 is a waste of money, and I do agree that costs are extortionate so a review is necesarry, and costs should be reduced. However, there is intense pressure on the WCML as it is, and the WCML takes a more circuitous route between Euston and Birmingham than HS2 would. Mainlines are antiquated, so I'd argue in the long term, building a new high speed line between London and Birmingham, and hopefully on to Manchester (although I think phase two is dead) reaps greater benefits in the long term.
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Post by 700101 on Sept 12, 2019 22:55:01 GMT
In my opinion HS2 should of been built years ago as the WCML is at capacity and in order to have a full upgrade to utilise capacity new signalling system would need to be brought in it which would result in contract closures including big block closure (eg. weeks closure during school holiday “when demand is low) also there should of been a cross country HS2 in place.
When and if HS2 goes ahead will services be cut on the WCML ?. as for example Coventry currently has 3 fast trains per hour would need to be kept for demand which would result in the current 3tph to Birmingham continuing, this could in turn increase fast trains at Milton Keynes and Rugby. LNWR services could increase with an extra semi fast Crewe service and maybe additional faster services to/from Northampton. Southern could take the opportunity to have an additional service on the WCML from Clapham
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2019 9:57:38 GMT
In my opinion HS2 should of been built years ago as the WCML is at capacity and in order to have a full upgrade to utilise capacity new signalling system would need to be brought in it which would result in contract closures including big block closure (eg. weeks closure during school holiday “when demand is low) also there should of been a cross country HS2 in place. When and if HS2 goes ahead will services be cut on the WCML ?. as for example Coventry currently has 3 fast trains per hour would need to be kept for demand which would result in the current 3tph to Birmingham continuing, this could in turn increase fast trains at Milton Keynes and Rugby. LNWR services could increase with an extra semi fast Crewe service and maybe additional faster services to/from Northampton. Southern could take the opportunity to have an additional service on the WCML from Clapham I totally agree, should have been built years ago. There is certainly scope to double the East Croydon to Milton Keynes service and maybe extend it further afield, and there is plenty of scope for other improvements and more freight movements.
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Post by ADH45258 on Sept 13, 2019 11:25:01 GMT
In my opinion HS2 should of been built years ago as the WCML is at capacity and in order to have a full upgrade to utilise capacity new signalling system would need to be brought in it which would result in contract closures including big block closure (eg. weeks closure during school holiday “when demand is low) also there should of been a cross country HS2 in place. When and if HS2 goes ahead will services be cut on the WCML ?. as for example Coventry currently has 3 fast trains per hour would need to be kept for demand which would result in the current 3tph to Birmingham continuing, this could in turn increase fast trains at Milton Keynes and Rugby. LNWR services could increase with an extra semi fast Crewe service and maybe additional faster services to/from Northampton. Southern could take the opportunity to have an additional service on the WCML from Clapham I totally agree, should have been built years ago. There is certainly scope to double the East Croydon to Milton Keynes service and maybe extend it further afield, and there is plenty of scope for other improvements and more freight movements. I find the Southern MK-Croydon service to be quite random, as it switches from a metro service as far as Shepherds Bush, to then being a semi-fast service along the WCML. I think it would be more effective to do the following: - Expand/remodel Willesden Junction station, introducing platforms on the semi-fast lines - Euston-Tring services to additionally call at Willesden Junction, with the option to increase the frequency of these services or increase the number of cars - Slight increased frequency on West London Line Overground services, and the Willesden-Clapham shorts could potentially be extended south of Clapham Junction (otherwise an extra Southern service East Croydon-Clapham Junction, could continue to Victoria)
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Post by rif153 on Sept 13, 2019 16:26:45 GMT
I totally agree, should have been built years ago. There is certainly scope to double the East Crooydon to Milton Keynes service and maybe extend it further afield, and there is plenty of scope for other improvements and more freight movements. I find the Southern MK-Croydon service to be quite random, as it switches from a metro service as far as Shepherds Bush, to then being a semi-fast service along the WCML. I think it would be more effective to do the following: - Expand/remodel Willesden Junction station, introducing platforms on the semi-fast lines - Euston-Tring services to additionally call at Willesden Junction, with the option to increase the frequency of these services or increase the number of cars - Slight increased frequency on West London Line Overground services, and the Willesden-Clapham shorts could potentially be extended south of Clapham Junction (otherwise an extra Southern service East Croydon-Clapham Junction, could continue to Victoria) Really, I think when tunneling for Crossrail, not including additional tracks for freight trains/longer distance services (see my post on the what services would you operate thread) was a huge mistake. There's too much pressure on the WLL with all the freight trying to use it because its such a useful cross London freight link. I know that the WLL is North-South whilst Crossrail is East-West but remember that lots of freight trains use the WLL then turn out onto the NLL at Willesden Junction. You could build a junction by the North Pole depot that allows freight trains to turn off the WLL, and on the extra pair of tracks on Crossrail I proposed. However, I do think four tracking the WLL would be really useful, as a more frequent service along there would be great, but of course with freight paths, its hard to squeeze more trains on that line.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2019 8:49:19 GMT
I totally agree, should have been built years ago. There is certainly scope to double the East Croydon to Milton Keynes service and maybe extend it further afield, and there is plenty of scope for other improvements and more freight movements. I find the Southern MK-Croydon service to be quite random, as it switches from a metro service as far as Shepherds Bush, to then being a semi-fast service along the WCML. I think it would be more effective to do the following: - Expand/remodel Willesden Junction station, introducing platforms on the semi-fast lines - Euston-Tring services to additionally call at Willesden Junction, with the option to increase the frequency of these services or increase the number of cars - Slight increased frequency on West London Line Overground services, and the Willesden-Clapham shorts could potentially be extended south of Clapham Junction (otherwise an extra Southern service East Croydon-Clapham Junction, could continue to Victoria) I've always found the Croydon to MK service useful for trips to the north west with a change at WJ or MK, far better than the tube. Years ago there was a Manchester to Brighton service operated by Virgin Trains which was great, I'm probably being a bit optimistic but it would be great to see that reinstated. I certainly agree about new platforms at Willesden Junction and the potential is endless.
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Post by rif153 on Sept 14, 2019 9:32:19 GMT
I find the Southern MK-Croydon service to be quite random, as it switches from a metro service as far as Shepherds Bush, to then being a semi-fast service along the WCML. I think it would be more effective to do the following: - Expand/remodel Willesden Junction station, introducing platforms on the semi-fast lines - Euston-Tring services to additionally call at Willesden Junction, with the option to increase the frequency of these services or increase the number of cars - Slight increased frequency on West London Line Overground services, and the Willesden-Clapham shorts could potentially be extended south of Clapham Junction (otherwise an extra Southern service East Croydon-Clapham Junction, could continue to Victoria) Years ago there was a Manchester to Brighton service operated by Virgin Trains which was great Are you referring to when Virgin ran Cross Country?
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Post by richard on Oct 14, 2019 18:36:22 GMT
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Post by T.R. on Nov 12, 2019 16:20:07 GMT
Posts on Rail UK (according to articles in the Daily Mail and FT) suggest that HS2 will continue but with a marginally reduced scope and a delay of a few years.
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Post by goldenarrow on Nov 12, 2019 23:43:27 GMT
Just seen a blog post from across the pond. It’s abundantly clear that they have seen the report as it’s broadly along the same lines of what the Times ran with this morning.
Cumulative costs benefits per pound have decreased significantly due to a botched contractor procurement process that massively inflated cost projections. Despite a projected final cost that could breach £90 billion when adjusted for inflation, the wider benefits still conclude a recommendation to proceed albeit with scope reductions giving minimal relief.
I bet that will be somewhere along the lines of making HS2 a 186mph/300kph railway as is the case with most high speed railways on the continent. Given the timing, we won’t get the published report until after the general election.
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Post by wirewiper on Feb 11, 2021 19:07:58 GMT
HS2 now has formal Parliamentary approval for phase 2a, the 36-mile extension from Birmingham to Crewe. The approval means that construction can be brought forward and the aim is to have opening at the same time as phase 1. This will bring Crewe within one hour of London. Trains will operate north of Crewe over the existing network which will save up to 45 minutes on journeys to Manchester, Liverpool and Glasgow. Trains to Manchester, Liverpool and Glasgow will continue north of Crewe over the existing lines and journey times from London will be cut by up to 45 minutes over current times. The new line will carry six trains per hour, freeing up capacity on the West Coast Main Line for regional services and freight. There is even the possibility of reopening lines and stations to take advantage of the extra capacity. Source: www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2021/02/11/hs2-gets-can-do-for-route-through-to-crewe/
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Post by wirewiper on May 14, 2021 10:14:20 GMT
Tunnelling under the Chilterns is now underway. Boring machine "Florence" commenced work at the South Portal on 13th May, with "Cecilia" to follow in the same direction a month later (having a staggered start rather than both machines working in parallel minimises ground disturbance). The twin-bore tunnel will be ten miles long and take three years to complete. Chalk excavated form the tunnel boring will be used to create 127 hectares of chalk grasslands around the South Portal.
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Post by Eastlondoner62 on May 14, 2021 10:55:50 GMT
Tunnelling under the Chilterns is now underway. Boring machine "Florence" commenced work at the South Portal on 13th May, with "Cecilia" to follow in the same direction a month later (having a staggered start rather than both machines working in parallel minimises ground disturbance). The twin-bore tunnel will be ten miles long and take three years to complete. Chalk excavated form the tunnel boring will be used to create 127 hectares of chalk grasslands around the South Portal. Just got to hope those stupid climate protestors don't try anything with those, wouldn't put it past them to try and distrust distrupt the machinery.
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