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Post by rif153 on Sept 25, 2019 20:05:32 GMT
I refuse to sign petitions. They are a futile endeavour, and invariably acheive nothing, consultations are bad enough, but petitions are even more meaningless, and obsolete. |
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Post by ServerKing on Sept 25, 2019 20:19:27 GMT
I refuse to sign petitions. They are a futile endeavour, and invariably acheive nothing, consultations are bad enough, but petitions are even more meaningless, and obsolete. You'll also find Ashok Leyland who own Optare will not give up their logo, plus Leyland Trucks is manufacturer for DAF in the UK, part of the US giant Paccar. We can't go back to the good old days, as with all industry it's evolve or die, so it was coming to Wrightbus anyway. You may have to also remember British Leyland also made a heap of mediocre products, such as the Austin Maestro and Princess. Don't forget the last bit of Leyland Buses was bought by Volvo who took naming rights to the Olympian. The last real Leyland buses were the H***GKX Olympians on the 65 for Armchair IIRC. |
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Post by george on Sept 25, 2019 20:20:50 GMT
I refuse to sign petitions. They are a futile endeavour, and invariably acheive nothing, consultations are bad enough, but petitions are even more meaningless, and obsolete. I think petitions can be good personally. I'm in no doubt the reason why the 209 routing got changed to the terminate at castelnau again was because of the petition that was started. |
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Post by vjaska on Sept 25, 2019 21:54:35 GMT
I refuse to sign petitions. They are a futile endeavour, and invariably acheive nothing, consultations are bad enough, but petitions are even more meaningless, and obsolete. I disagree - in general, petitions can be good and do work though it all depends on the subject matter involved - stuff like petition against softer sentences, certain rights etc. are things that can be achieved. Consultations can as well (providing they aren't TfL ones) - it all depends on the subject at hand and who it's aimed at. To give examples, I've signed both important and trivial petitions - I think one important one was about the bloke who had his house burgled and was arrested for defending his home. Meanwhile, three trivial ones off the top of my head were calling for Clarkson to be PM  (fun fact, he is surprisingly a Remainer), calling for Duran Duran to enter the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame and asking the creators of Super Smash Bro's to finally have Crash Bandicoot as a playable character - apologies for the off topic part  Unless the person who created this is simply having a laugh, Leyland can not be resurrected as they aren't dead as @serverking already pointed out and you can't simply go and turn back time (as much as I wish). I'd love if the Leyland of old could return given two of my favourite all time buses are Leyland products (Olympian & Titan, I'd have MCW back as well) but it's mere fantasy. |
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Post by rj131 on Sept 25, 2019 23:11:02 GMT
I think they thought they would have gained extra sales from TfL (if Boris was still there) and then from other operators around the country. I would blame part of the LT for their demise. One downside of the Streetdeck compared to the DB300 was the loss of the front offside seat.
They way they tried to flog the LT around the likes of Reading, Leeds and Edinburgh (all tried, but said nah) before shipping it off to Hong Kong where it was rejected for being a mobile greenhouse was very desperate... I think they put all their eggs in one basket with the LT as it didn't look as bad as their other products. Not sure about the Warranty process, but may be as much use as a Thomas Cook brochure now. For what remains of First, and also for the brave guys at Arriva Yorkshire who bought StreetDecks before they went bust, hopefully the Mercedes units are a lot more reliable than the Brighton & Hove ones  It's a shame but when one of your biggest buyers (Arriva) would rather buy second hand ones from a lessor than new HV's or StreetDeck 96v HEVs for the 34 and 102, you know its bad news  I personally wouldn’t say Arriva buying secondhand vehicles from a lessor is necessarily Wrightbus’s fault, I’d say that’s more TfL’s fault with their own financial straits and their continual pressure on operators to reduce their tender prices. It was cheaper and more lucrative to buy those than shell out for brand new buses so they may as well have scooped them up while they could. You actually bring up a very good point which is that, although totally out of Wright’s control, I think TfL’s financial circumstances had a (although probably quite small) part to play in Wright’s demise. A lot more contract renewals with existing vehicles started popping up, which in turn choked potential orders for new vehicles, as no doubt the London market as a whole made up a huge proportion of Wright’s orders. |
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Post by snowman on Sept 26, 2019 5:46:23 GMT
They way they tried to flog the LT around the likes of Reading, Leeds and Edinburgh (all tried, but said nah) before shipping it off to Hong Kong where it was rejected for being a mobile greenhouse was very desperate... I think they put all their eggs in one basket with the LT as it didn't look as bad as their other products. Not sure about the Warranty process, but may be as much use as a Thomas Cook brochure now. For what remains of First, and also for the brave guys at Arriva Yorkshire who bought StreetDecks before they went bust, hopefully the Mercedes units are a lot more reliable than the Brighton & Hove ones It's a shame but when one of your biggest buyers (Arriva) would rather buy second hand ones from a lessor than new HV's or StreetDeck 96v HEVs for the 34 and 102, you know its bad news I personally wouldn’t say Arriva buying secondhand vehicles from a lessor is necessarily Wrightbus’s fault, I’d say that’s more TfL’s fault with their own financial straits and their continual pressure on operators to reduce their tender prices. It was cheaper and more lucrative to buy those than shell out for brand new buses so they may as well have scooped them up while they could. You actually bring up a very good point which is that, although totally out of Wright’s control, I think TfL’s financial circumstances had a (although probably quite small) part to play in Wright’s demise. A lot more contract renewals with existing vehicles started popping up, which in turn choked potential orders for new vehicles, as no doubt the London market as a whole made up a huge proportion of Wright’s orders. That is a bit of a London based answer. In reality the press stories say some work was brought back from Malaysia so were clearly not producing enough to keep Ballymena factory busy. Orders for streetlites were minimal, First and Arriva have taken some in last few years, as has GoAhead in London Double decks, had some orders outstanding for Hong Kong, (Kowloon motor bus, New World City Bus), First Leeds, Preston bus, Diamond, and maybe some others. But had lost Lothian, Singapore, most London Operators etc. Don’t have to look very far to find comments about the variable quality in recent years which would discourage repeat orders. Had been doing a huge fleet replacement for Dublin, which now have huge numbers of Gemini3 body buses (not sure how many but I think SG numbers go upto about 600) out of a fleet of about 1000 buses in Dublin Transport for Ireland have issued a tender for 600 buses over 3 years (but Ireland only has a population of 5m so can’t rely on big orders from Ireland). Really Wrightbus we’re relying on City Double deck buses which is a bit of a niche market worldwide. As for some Operators taking used buses, it will always happen, but any City updating its fleet means lots of used buses available, Lothian has sold off loads, Dublin is offloading it’s AX fleet (2006 ALX400s), London has lost virtually everything prior to 2008. All these surplus buses reduce incentive to source lots of new ones, except for premium services or where new emissions rules are coming in. |
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Post by ThinLizzy on Sept 26, 2019 11:48:55 GMT
Having read some Twitter threads it seems there is quite a lot more to the Wrightbus saga with poor build quality and poor products being part of the problem.
As with any business that has gone under in recent years, if you don't offer what the market wants the market won't be there. However, if you're also donating more money than you are making profit to a charity run by a family member (and also paying that family member a high amount of money for land) theres only one way that business is going to go
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Post by ServerKing on Sept 26, 2019 13:43:12 GMT
I personally wouldn’t say Arriva buying secondhand vehicles from a lessor is necessarily Wrightbus’s fault, I’d say that’s more TfL’s fault with their own financial straits and their continual pressure on operators to reduce their tender prices. It was cheaper and more lucrative to buy those than shell out for brand new buses so they may as well have scooped them up while they could. You actually bring up a very good point which is that, although totally out of Wright’s control, I think TfL’s financial circumstances had a (although probably quite small) part to play in Wright’s demise. A lot more contract renewals with existing vehicles started popping up, which in turn choked potential orders for new vehicles, as no doubt the London market as a whole made up a huge proportion of Wright’s orders. That is a bit of a London based answer. In reality the press stories say some work was brought back from Malaysia so were clearly not producing enough to keep Ballymena factory busy. Orders for streetlites were minimal, First and Arriva have taken some in last few years, as has GoAhead in London Double decks, had some orders outstanding for Hong Kong, (Kowloon motor bus, New World City Bus), First Leeds, Preston bus, Diamond, and maybe some others. But had lost Lothian, Singapore, most London Operators etc. Don’t have to look very far to find comments about the variable quality in recent years which would discourage repeat orders. Had been doing a huge fleet replacement for Dublin, which now have huge numbers of Gemini3 body buses (not sure how many but I think SG numbers go upto about 600) out of a fleet of about 1000 buses in Dublin Transport for Ireland have issued a tender for 600 buses over 3 years (but Ireland only has a population of 5m so can’t rely on big orders from Ireland). Really Wrightbus we’re relying on City Double deck buses which is a bit of a niche market worldwide. As for some Operators taking used buses, it will always happen, but any City updating its fleet means lots of used buses available, Lothian has sold off loads, Dublin is offloading it’s AX fleet (2006 ALX400s), London has lost virtually everything prior to 2008. All these surplus buses reduce incentive to source lots of new ones, except for premium services or where new emissions rules are coming in. YouTube comments are very scathing - even from drivers as well as enthusiasts. Being called the Streetsh**e and Sh**deck is hardly endearing. Most moan about the gutless performance of the 5.1 4 pot engine. Wrights should have taken note that only a handful of people really thought a smaller engine would be more economical (in reality you have to work it harder. 5.1 4 cylinder is no match for a 6.7 six cylinder with more torque. Perhaps Arriva saw Wrightbus' demise and held back from orders, and thought, we'll just use what Stagecoach don't want, but top up with DW's from elsewhere as well' as regards the 34 and 102. First may follow Wrightbus into extinction soon, so their orders won't count for much. I was at the lights in Turnpike Lane today and whilst at the junction noticed that nearly every bus that passed was a Wrightbus (save for the 231 and 217 buses behind me  ), so they've not done bad out of London. They just didn't evolve and up their game. ADL have since day one. Even Caetano's latest bus looks quite decent and they are contemplating a double deck. MCV is still about for an alternative to the E400, I see them taking Wrightbus' place for orders in future |
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Post by riverside on Sept 26, 2019 16:01:27 GMT
Last night's BBC Newsline programme at 6.30pm had a very detailed report on the collapse of Wrightbus and its effect on Ballymena. Possibility that Invest NI might look into how Wrightbus were using some of their funding. The programme seemed to suggest that they were receiving grants from InvestNI, but at the same time Wrightbus was handing out considerable amounts of money to build a large evangelical church on the outskirts of Ballymena. Despite quite a large amount of work on the church being completed, work on it has also halted.
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Post by ServerKing on Sept 26, 2019 16:39:24 GMT
Last night's BBC Newsline programme at 6.30pm had a very detailed report on the collapse of Wrightbus and its effect on Ballymena. Possibility that Invest NI might look into how Wrightbus were using some of their funding. The programme seemed to suggest that they were receiving grants from InvestNI, but at the same time Wrightbus was handing out considerable amounts of money to build a large evangelical church on the outskirts of Ballymena. Despite quite a large amount of work on the church being completed, work on it has also halted. If the build quality of the church is anything like the buses, probably the parishioners should wear hard hats for the first service  It does seem odd, but one poster who mentioned this on the BBC about the collapse said :- "The highly successful Glider buses in Belfast are from a Belgium company Van Hool. The buses aren't fully electric but a low emission hybrid diesel
Belgium is in the EU
Van Hool isn't closing down, Wrightbus was a dinosaur compared to this company.
Darwin said those who survive are those most adaptable to change.
But they don't believe in Darwin or dinosaurs in Ballymena"So a lot of it boiled down to being a little out of touch. Whilst they were fiddling about with Transit engines and batteries, the world had moved on. The tech in the LT is very dated. Another BBC quote in the comments section I hear JCB tried to buy this company at the start of the week but the Wrights family would not sell the land because they wanted to rent it out instead. They could have saved the workforce but wanted to be greedy wanting 1million rent a year instead of just selling upSo it doesn't sound great. It's like buying a Lamborghini with your redundancy money at the expense of paying your mortgage and service charge Starting a religious charity (Green Pastures) and building a church near to the factory seems a little odd. Aside from this incompetence is the bus market contracting 30%, and even when it was good, no one was really buying their products. I guess Arriva Southern Counties bst prder some E400 MMC's if those StreetDecks haven't arrived yet. I guess we may never see Go NorthEast's Citaro engined Streetwreck now EDIT: I pray you have a look at this www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/inside-the-evangelical-church-linked-to-wrightbus-1.3299728No wonder they bought the cheapest aircon systems if it was all being funneled into that church  |
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Post by busaholic on Sept 26, 2019 17:59:52 GMT
Last night's BBC Newsline programme at 6.30pm had a very detailed report on the collapse of Wrightbus and its effect on Ballymena. Possibility that Invest NI might look into how Wrightbus were using some of their funding. The programme seemed to suggest that they were receiving grants from InvestNI, but at the same time Wrightbus was handing out considerable amounts of money to build a large evangelical church on the outskirts of Ballymena. Despite quite a large amount of work on the church being completed, work on it has also halted. I wonder if the church has three doors(two of them exit only) and two staircases, oppressively small windows with no ventilation, gets incredibly overheated inside in the summer and has bum-numbing seats badly placed. |
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Post by busaholic on Sept 26, 2019 18:01:37 GMT
Last night's BBC Newsline programme at 6.30pm had a very detailed report on the collapse of Wrightbus and its effect on Ballymena. Possibility that Invest NI might look into how Wrightbus were using some of their funding. The programme seemed to suggest that they were receiving grants from InvestNI, but at the same time Wrightbus was handing out considerable amounts of money to build a large evangelical church on the outskirts of Ballymena. Despite quite a large amount of work on the church being completed, work on it has also halted. I wonder if the church has three doors(two of them exit only) and two staircases, oppressively small windows with no ventilation, gets incredibly overheated inside in the summer and has bum-numbing seats badly placed. P.S. Some ineffective windows may be added later at vast cost. |
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Post by ServerKing on Sept 26, 2019 18:20:46 GMT
I wonder if the church has three doors(two of them exit only) and two staircases, oppressively small windows with no ventilation, gets incredibly overheated inside in the summer and has bum-numbing seats badly placed. P.S. Some ineffective windows may be added later at vast cost. Lots of fare evasion (worshippers dodging the collection plate) but Revenue Teams linger nearby in groups of three with a PCSO |
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Post by riverside on Sept 26, 2019 18:24:44 GMT
Last night's BBC Newsline programme at 6.30pm had a very detailed report on the collapse of Wrightbus and its effect on Ballymena. Possibility that Invest NI might look into how Wrightbus were using some of their funding. The programme seemed to suggest that they were receiving grants from InvestNI, but at the same time Wrightbus was handing out considerable amounts of money to build a large evangelical church on the outskirts of Ballymena. Despite quite a large amount of work on the church being completed, work on it has also halted. If the build quality of the church is anything like the buses, probably the parishioners should wear hard hats for the first service It does seem odd, but one poster who mentioned this on the BBC about the collapse said :- "The highly successful Glider buses in Belfast are from a Belgium company Van Hool. The buses aren't fully electric but a low emission hybrid diesel
Belgium is in the EU
Van Hool isn't closing down, Wrightbus was a dinosaur compared to this company.
Darwin said those who survive are those most adaptable to change.
But they don't believe in Darwin or dinosaurs in Ballymena"So a lot of it boiled down to being a little out of touch. Whilst they were fiddling about with Transit engines and batteries, the world had moved on. The tech in the LT is very dated. Another BBC quote in the comments section I hear JCB tried to buy this company at the start of the week but the Wrights family would not sell the land because they wanted to rent it out instead. They could have saved the workforce but wanted to be greedy wanting 1million rent a year instead of just selling upSo it doesn't sound great. It's like buying a Lamborghini with your redundancy money at the expense of paying your mortgage and service charge Starting a religious charity (Green Pastures) and building a church near to the factory seems a little odd. Aside from this incompetence is the bus market contracting 30%, and even when it was good, no one was really buying their products. I guess Arriva Southern Counties bst prder some E400 MMC's if those StreetDecks haven't arrived yet. I guess we may never see Go NorthEast's Citaro engined Streetwreck now Tonight's BBC Newsline programme also led with the collapse of Wrightbus. The organisation of the company has played a part in the failure to secure a buyer. The land that the factory occupies is owned by the Wright organisation but is completely separate from Wrightbus. Apparently the Wright organisation would not sell the land to a potential buyer of Wrightbus. Seems a pity if the sale of the land could have helped clinch a deal. One of the workers said last night that he was a fully qualified coachbuilder but there wasn't much call for his skills in County Antrim now that Wrightbus have gone. All very sad. I know there have been many questions about the quality of their recent products but from their humble origins to considerable expansion and penetration of the bus market since the 1990s, Wrightbus have provided an interesting chapter in the history of British/Irish bus manufacturing. |
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Post by Volvo on Sept 26, 2019 18:48:12 GMT
Personally I think Wright should have followed ADLs lead and worked with their customers on new model of bus. It was the best decision ADL ever made to collaborate and consult with large customers both TfL and non-TfL on the MMCs. Maybe if Wright did this they would have a product people wanted want to purchase How can it be 'progress' when the LT type bus weighs 12tons+? If carting around a dirty great battery is progress, don't know what all this weight is doing to the bus lanes, maybe the answer WAS to go back to trollybus infrastructure Tbf, the LT is 11.2m long with two staircases, 3 sets of doors and a whole load of glass in its design. For example a 10.4m MMC hybrid between 2014-2017 weighed in at 11665kgs and they are much shorter, have two doors, 1 staircase and less glass in its design, even the city version is heavier at 11725kgs due to the additional glass on the staircase. Also the 18reg Go ahead and Abellio E400 MMCs are over 11, 800kgs. |
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(fun fact, he is surprisingly a Remainer), calling for Duran Duran to enter the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame and asking the creators of Super Smash Bro's to finally have Crash Bandicoot as a playable character - apologies for the off topic part 
), so they've not done bad out of London. They just didn't evolve and up their game. ADL have since day one. Even Caetano's latest bus looks quite decent and they are contemplating a double deck. MCV is still about for an alternative to the E400, I see them taking Wrightbus' place for orders in future 
