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Post by southlondon413 on Jul 25, 2023 15:23:14 GMT
There are even night routes that operate today that just shouldn’t really. Such as? N213, demand doesn’t justify the service and nightlife in Kingston just isn’t as good as it used to be. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Jul 25, 2023 15:29:06 GMT
N213, demand doesn’t justify the service and nightlife in Kingston just isn’t as good as it used to be. The problem is once a service it started its hard to take away as some workers would have become reliant on it. |
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Post by southlondon413 on Jul 25, 2023 15:31:01 GMT
N213, demand doesn’t justify the service and nightlife in Kingston just isn’t as good as it used to be. The problem is once a service it started its hard to take away as some workers would have become reliant on it. But what workers? The hospital workers aren’t likely to need it as shift work wouldn’t allow for changeovers in the middle of the night. Ironically the N213 was at its most useful when it was extended to Croydon over the 154s route but they claimed it was too lightly used. |
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Post by northlondon83 on Jul 25, 2023 15:35:24 GMT
The problem is once a service it started its hard to take away as some workers would have become reliant on it. But what workers? The hospital workers aren’t likely to need it as shift work wouldn’t allow for changeovers in the middle of the night. Ironically the N213 was at its most useful when it was extended to Croydon over the 154s route but they claimed it was too lightly used. There could be workers travelling onto other buses like taking a 285 to continue their journey. There could be people working at Heathrow who live in that area and don't drive and have to take the night bus to work |
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Post by southlondon413 on Jul 25, 2023 15:38:04 GMT
But what workers? The hospital workers aren’t likely to need it as shift work wouldn’t allow for changeovers in the middle of the night. Ironically the N213 was at its most useful when it was extended to Croydon over the 154s route but they claimed it was too lightly used. There could be workers travelling onto other buses like taking a 285 to continue their journey. There could be people working at Heathrow who live in that area and don't drive and have to take the night bus to work If there are they would be in a tiny minority and wouldn’t justify an every 30 minute service. I’ve long argued that a (N)x26 would better serve the demand and links. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Jul 25, 2023 16:18:50 GMT
There could be workers travelling onto other buses like taking a 285 to continue their journey. There could be people working at Heathrow who live in that area and don't drive and have to take the night bus to work If there are they would be in a tiny minority and wouldn’t justify an every 30 minute service. I’ve long argued that a (N)x26 would better serve the demand and links. Don't get me wrong iv long felt that the london night bus network is too generous and standardised for the amount of demand there is inevitably going to be at night. Even in a 24h city 95% of people are asleep between 1am and 5am. |
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Post by twobellstogo on Jul 25, 2023 16:22:04 GMT
I do think a few 24 hour services that cross the Greater London border would be very useful and well used - I would suggest services to Watford, Dartford, Epsom and Slough. Slough already has some night services to Heathrow in the 4 (soon to be A4) and 7 - there are then connections to TfL night buses there. Struggling to think of why Epsom needs a night bus, and Dartford isn’t exactly a night hot spot either - the 96 runs until pretty late and starts up again early. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Jul 25, 2023 16:27:10 GMT
I do think a few 24 hour services that cross the Greater London border would be very useful and well used - I would suggest services to Watford, Dartford, Epsom and Slough. Slough already has some night services to Heathrow in the 4 (soon to be A4) and 7 - there are then connections to TfL night buses there. Struggling to think of why Epsom needs a night bus, and Dartford isn’t exactly a night hot spot either - the 96 runs until pretty late and starts up again early. If ever in the TFL era there was going to be a night service beyond London I'd have staked all my savings on its being a 96. Back in 2004 or even 2009 I could quite easily have seen a 24h service introduced to provide a link from Woolwich to welling/Bexleyheath and a link from BH to Cryaford and Dartford. |
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Post by enviroPB on Jul 25, 2023 16:37:29 GMT
Are there actually reasons for people to go there at night? None of those towns really have a centralised population which would benefit from a night service. They’d still have to connect to taxis or Ubers on the other end. Epsom certainly doesn’t have anything going for it beyond midnight, Wetherspoons is probably the latest operating business in the town centre. Then of course you have to choose the most beneficial way. Just using Epsom as an example again would an N293 be most beneficial because of the link to the night tube or a link from Kingston? I actually do think that an N96 would be useful, would connect to the N89 at Bexleyheath should anyone be travelling from a night out in London or Bexleyheath and can then carry on to Dartford and Bluewater A N96 starting at Dartford would be very useful. At present people normally flog to Bexleyheath to catch a cab from there. At present there are a few satellite towns in outer London that punters go to for onward travel via private cars. TfL if they were truly chasing that bag (money) as the kids say, would be trying to seize as much of that patronage as possible. It's great that the 486 returns to all nightly running, but that further feeds the theory of the satellite town that is Bexleyheath. I have met too many estranged people and those I personally know who live in the area who protest to doing this. A N96 going to Dartford would benefit people living there and in Bexleyheath. Invisible boundary lines shouldn't dictate how we travel but it sadly does. |
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Post by WH241 on Jul 25, 2023 16:38:06 GMT
If there are they would be in a tiny minority and wouldn’t justify an every 30 minute service. I’ve long argued that a (N)x26 would better serve the demand and links. Don't get me wrong iv long felt that the london night bus network is too generous and standardised for the amount of demand there is inevitably going to be at night. Even in a 24h city 95% of people are asleep between 1am and 5am. This is what I was thinking. I have seen some suggestions for services based on some very casual observations. Even taking into account shift workers they are not likely to be in the middle of the night.
Yes it would be nice to have certain links but the practicality of some is just not justified.
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Post by WH241 on Jul 25, 2023 16:43:23 GMT
N213, demand doesn’t justify the service and nightlife in Kingston just isn’t as good as it used to be. The problem is once a service it started its hard to take away as some workers would have become reliant on it. No strictly true as there have been several night services that ave been withdrawn.
Controversial view here but do think late night travel is the one area where Uber has it's uses especially for one off social events or the occasional night out.
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Post by northlondon83 on Jul 25, 2023 16:50:32 GMT
The problem is once a service it started its hard to take away as some workers would have become reliant on it. No strictly true as there have been several night services that ave been withdrawn.
Controversial view here but do think late night travel is the one area where Uber has it's uses especially for one off social events or the occasional night out.
Not everyone can afford Ubers. I work late evenings sometimes after midnight and if I had to take an Uber home I wouldn't be happy. The night bus network is there to ferry commuters to their destination and also to cater for those who have been on nights out |
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Post by southlondonbus on Jul 25, 2023 16:53:09 GMT
The problem is once a service it started its hard to take away as some workers would have become reliant on it. No strictly true as there have been several night services that ave been withdrawn.
Controversial view here but do think late night travel is the one area where Uber has it's uses especially for one off social events or the occasional night out.
No I agree and I would imagine after Sarah Everard, particularly in outer London many dad's would tell their daughters to take taxis and they will pay the fare as opposed to waiting for buses. At the end of the day there is such little growth potential for night bus demand outside of Friday and Saturday nights that running increased frequency problem won't capture much new custom. |
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Post by southlondon413 on Jul 25, 2023 16:57:07 GMT
No strictly true as there have been several night services that ave been withdrawn.
Controversial view here but do think late night travel is the one area where Uber has it's uses especially for one off social events or the occasional night out.
Not everyone can afford Ubers. I work late evenings sometimes after midnight and if I had to take an Uber home I wouldn't be happy. The night bus network is there to ferry commuters to their destination and also to cater for those who have been on nights out Obviously you work in a place that allows you take night buses home but that’s your job. If you didn’t then you wouldn’t have taken that job. But likewise as I said most workers aren’t reliant on night buses as their shifts would start well before night buses start and likely after they finish. I’ve turned done jobs in the past because the timings don’t work for public transport and I’ve also done jobs that require overnight shifts. But we are talking about a very small minority of people. The majority of people who take a night out in Central London would factor in an Uber at the end of the night. |
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Post by WH241 on Jul 25, 2023 16:57:46 GMT
No strictly true as there have been several night services that ave been withdrawn.
Controversial view here but do think late night travel is the one area where Uber has it's uses especially for one off social events or the occasional night out.
Not everyone can afford Ubers. I work late evenings sometimes after midnight and if I had to take an Uber home I wouldn't be happy. The night bus network is there to ferry commuters to their destination and also to cater for those who have been on nights out Late evening? That’s not the same as a all night service! Buses run until as late as 1.30am! Are you saying you work later than this? So should buses services run just on the off chance a few users might need to service depending on shift patterns? You almost seem to suggest as many routes as possible should run 24 hours and that’s not practical. |
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