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Post by abellion on Jul 25, 2023 17:00:49 GMT
N213, demand doesn’t justify the service and nightlife in Kingston just isn’t as good as it used to be. If we go off usage South West London would be hit hard. All of the 85, N28, N31, N33, N72, N74, 264, and 213 have extremely low usage. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Jul 25, 2023 17:01:12 GMT
Not everyone can afford Ubers. I work late evenings sometimes after midnight and if I had to take an Uber home I wouldn't be happy. The night bus network is there to ferry commuters to their destination and also to cater for those who have been on nights out Obviously you work in a place that allows you take night buses home but that’s your job. If you didn’t then you wouldn’t have taken that job. But likewise as I said most workers aren’t reliant on night buses as their shifts would start well before night buses start and likely after they finish. I’ve turned done jobs in the past because the timings don’t work for public transport and I’ve also done jobs that require overnight shifts. But we are talking about a very small minority of people. The majority of people who take a night out in Central London would factor in an Uber at the end of the night. Or if they do then it will be Friday and Saturday nights. Pre 2000 there were night routes on those nights only N70 or that had extensions such as the N3 to Bromley and Chislehurst. |
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Post by SILENCED on Jul 25, 2023 17:04:14 GMT
N213, demand doesn’t justify the service and nightlife in Kingston just isn’t as good as it used to be. If we go off usage South West London would be hit hard. All of the 85, N28, N31, N33, N72, N74, 264, and 213 have extremely low usage. Are you basing that on total numbers, as if the is only 2 bph, it is mostly going to be less than those with 8bph. Usage needs to be looked at as passengers devided by frequency. South London night bus frequencies are very poor compared to North London. If we similar frequencies sure usage would pick up. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Jul 25, 2023 17:05:50 GMT
N213, demand doesn’t justify the service and nightlife in Kingston just isn’t as good as it used to be. If we go off usage South West London would be hit hard. All of the 85, N28, N31, N33, N72, N74, 264, and 213 have extremely low usage. But 20 years ago alot of those routes above were covered by more traditional N routes. The N14 linked central with Putney and Roehampton in place of the 85 and N74, the N22 linked Kingston with Teddington, Twickenham, Richmond and Putney again. One route, several links as opposed to many standardised 24h routes. |
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Post by northlondon83 on Jul 25, 2023 17:06:42 GMT
Not everyone can afford Ubers. I work late evenings sometimes after midnight and if I had to take an Uber home I wouldn't be happy. The night bus network is there to ferry commuters to their destination and also to cater for those who have been on nights out Late evening? That’s not the same as a all night service! Buses run until as late as 1.30am! Are you saying you work later than this? So should buses services run just on the off chance a few users might need to service depending on shift patterns? You almost seem to suggest as many routes as possible should run 24 hours and that’s not practical. I do sometimes work until 1 or 2am and I'm lucky to have a night bus within 5 minutes of where I live. In general the tube stops around 00.30 in central London and 01.30 at the extremities so then the only options are night bus and taxi. I still think that there should be more night routes in London and a few cross boundary ones. The borough of Hillingdon has no night routes north of the A40. It isn't as populated as the south however the N114 was a great link when the night tube ran. It deserves to be extended and ideally extended to Uxbridge. There's a lot of places in London without a night route and introducing more would make the service more attractive than it is currently |
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Post by southlondon413 on Jul 25, 2023 17:21:19 GMT
Late evening? That’s not the same as an all night service! Buses run until as late as 1.30am! Are you saying you work later than this? So should buses services run just on the off chance a few users might need to service depending on shift patterns? You almost seem to suggest as many routes as possible should run 24 hours and that’s not practical. I do sometimes work until 1 or 2am and I'm lucky to have a night bus within 5 minutes of where I live. In general the tube stops around 00.30 in central London and 01.30 at the extremities so then the only options are night bus and taxi. I still think that there should be more night routes in London and a few cross boundary ones. The borough of Hillingdon has no night routes north of the A40. It isn't as populated as the south however the N114 was a great link when the night tube ran. It deserves to be extended and ideally extended to Uxbridge. There's a lot of places in London without a night route and introducing more would make the service more attractive than it is currently Does Hillingdon need one? Hillingdon as a borough seems to be family orientated, these aren’t people who are going out every night or travelling into Central London to need a night service. It’s the same reason why where I am night services aren’t really needed south of Sutton Station. It’s mostly families and OAPs that who aren’t out every night or in need of a regular night service. |
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Post by rift on Jul 25, 2023 18:24:27 GMT
I actually do think that an N96 would be useful, would connect to the N89 at Bexleyheath should anyone be travelling from a night out in London or Bexleyheath and can then carry on to Dartford and Bluewater A N96 starting at Dartford would be very useful. At present people normally flog to Bexleyheath to catch a cab from there. At present there are a few satellite towns in outer London that punters go to for onward travel via private cars. TfL if they were truly chasing that bag (money) as the kids say, would be trying to seize as much of that patronage as possible. It's great that the 486 returns to all nightly running, but that further feeds the theory of the satellite town that is Bexleyheath. I have met too many estranged people and those I personally know who live in the area who protest to doing this. A N96 going to Dartford would benefit people living there and in Bexleyheath. Invisible boundary lines shouldn't dictate how we travel but it sadly does. A 24 hour 96 would also provide parts of Plumstead and Welling a night service which was last served by the previous N53, as well as introduce one for Crayford. I feel it would be better to start at Darent Valley instead of Bluewater, demand aside the hospital would likely have relief facilities such as a toilet |
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Post by southlondonbus on Jul 25, 2023 18:25:50 GMT
A N96 starting at Dartford would be very useful. At present people normally flog to Bexleyheath to catch a cab from there. At present there are a few satellite towns in outer London that punters go to for onward travel via private cars. TfL if they were truly chasing that bag (money) as the kids say, would be trying to seize as much of that patronage as possible. It's great that the 486 returns to all nightly running, but that further feeds the theory of the satellite town that is Bexleyheath. I have met too many estranged people and those I personally know who live in the area who protest to doing this. A N96 going to Dartford would benefit people living there and in Bexleyheath. Invisible boundary lines shouldn't dictate how we travel but it sadly does. A 24 hour 96 would also provide parts of Plumstead and Welling a night service which was last served by the previous N53, as well as introduce one for Crayford. I feel it would be better to start at Darent Valley instead of Bluewater, demand aside the hospital would likely have relief facilities such as a toilet I wonder if it was ever considered? Has anyone ever heard of it during the previous tenders |
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Post by northlondon83 on Jul 25, 2023 20:42:32 GMT
I do sometimes work until 1 or 2am and I'm lucky to have a night bus within 5 minutes of where I live. In general the tube stops around 00.30 in central London and 01.30 at the extremities so then the only options are night bus and taxi. I still think that there should be more night routes in London and a few cross boundary ones. The borough of Hillingdon has no night routes north of the A40. It isn't as populated as the south however the N114 was a great link when the night tube ran. It deserves to be extended and ideally extended to Uxbridge. There's a lot of places in London without a night route and introducing more would make the service more attractive than it is currently Does Hillingdon need one? Hillingdon as a borough seems to be family orientated, these aren’t people who are going out every night or travelling into Central London to need a night service. It’s the same reason why where I am night services aren’t really needed south of Sutton Station. It’s mostly families and OAPs that who aren’t out every night or in need of a regular night service. It is family orientated but I believe that people will still use it if a service existed. |
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Post by southlondon413 on Jul 25, 2023 20:51:38 GMT
Does Hillingdon need one? Hillingdon as a borough seems to be family orientated, these aren’t people who are going out every night or travelling into Central London to need a night service. It’s the same reason why where I am night services aren’t really needed south of Sutton Station. It’s mostly families and OAPs that who aren’t out every night or in need of a regular night service. It is family orientated but I believe that people will still use it if a service existed. Those sporadic users wouldn’t be enough to build a night on. Families with young children aren’t necessarily going to choose or have to stay out late enough to require night buses. I don’t know about your parents but mine didn’t really go out much together when I was young enough to need them at home all the time. They did after I turned 10 and they could work more or go out more but even then they weren’t out past 8pm. If we did all go out we were normally back we before 7pm for bed. The only night of the year where these families might require a night bus is New Year’s Eve but TfL can option one extended day service. |
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Post by southlondonbus on Jul 25, 2023 20:54:09 GMT
Does Hillingdon need one? Hillingdon as a borough seems to be family orientated, these aren’t people who are going out every night or travelling into Central London to need a night service. It’s the same reason why where I am night services aren’t really needed south of Sutton Station. It’s mostly families and OAPs that who aren’t out every night or in need of a regular night service. It is family orientated but I believe that people will still use it if a service existed. Maybe 20 people which if all paid a fare then £35 would be made. Hardly going to come close to covering the cost of a 30 mins service to Belmont. |
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Post by londonbuses on Jul 25, 2023 21:26:54 GMT
It is family orientated but I believe that people will still use it if a service existed. Maybe 20 people which if all paid a fare then £35 would be made. Hardly going to come close to covering the cost of a 30 mins service to Belmont. Belmont is a bad example, since the N44 can be easily be extended from Sutton Station to Belmont without needing an extra bus (it would be a 2-3 minute journey at night), so would cost nearly nothing, just the cost of the small amount of fuel used. |
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Post by southlondon413 on Jul 25, 2023 21:45:15 GMT
Maybe 20 people which if all paid a fare then £35 would be made. Hardly going to come close to covering the cost of a 30 mins service to Belmont. Belmont is a bad example, since the N44 can be easily be extended from Sutton Station to Belmont without needing an extra bus (it would be a 2-3 minute journey at night), so would cost nearly nothing, just the cost of the small amount of fuel used. They were referring to Belmont in Uxbridge not Belmont in Sutton. But like one another the demand is mostly from families and extended the N44 just isn’t cost effective. Hell running the N44 to Sutton isn’t even worth it as every time I see it it’s empty and every time I’ve taken it it’s empty from Rose Hill. Maybe when the new hospital opens it could be worth it but for now it’s a waste of resources. |
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Post by vjaska on Jul 25, 2023 22:03:45 GMT
I actually do think that an N96 would be useful, would connect to the N89 at Bexleyheath should anyone be travelling from a night out in London or Bexleyheath and can then carry on to Dartford and Bluewater Waste of money and unless Bluewater is about to open 24 hours I can’t see where the demand would come from. Before you try and justify it with Darent Valley Hospital it isn’t enough to warrant a night service. There are even night routes that operate today that just shouldn’t really. I broadly agree with you in regards to night routes close to the edge of London likely not being worth it but I feel a N96 would actually buck that notion personally - start it at North Greenwich and run it to Dartford/Darent Valley Hospital. I think the issue with night routes is probably what was touched on by SILENCED - every 30 minutes is hardly attractive over waiting even 10 minutes or less for a minicab/Uber hence why some of the North London ones that run more frequent than every 30 tend to have higher loads. |
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Post by rift on Jul 25, 2023 22:18:21 GMT
Waste of money and unless Bluewater is about to open 24 hours I can’t see where the demand would come from. Before you try and justify it with Darent Valley Hospital it isn’t enough to warrant a night service. There are even night routes that operate today that just shouldn’t really. I broadly agree with you in regards to night routes close to the edge of London likely not being worth it but I feel a N96 would actually buck that notion personally - start it at North Greenwich and run it to Dartford/Darent Valley Hospital. I think the issue with night routes is probably what was touched on by SILENCED - every 30 minutes is hardly attractive over waiting even 10 minutes or less for a minicab/Uber hence why some of the North London ones that run more frequent than every 30 tend to have higher loads. North Greenwich would be a good idea to start any sort of night service on the 96, especially on Fri/Sat weekends. I don’t get where a ‘lack of demand’ comes from, Bexleyheath and Dartford have a noticeable night scene. |
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